Grady vs Charlie Williams 14.1 Grudge Match

bud green

bud green

Dolley and Django
Silver Member
Anyone think a match between these guys to see who should play in the world 14.1 tourney is in order?

How about a nice 200 point game for the spot in the tourney and some side action to spice it up. Bomber said he back CW all day long against Grady. NY cue dude sounds like he'd throw some cash down.

I'll bet all my vcash on Grady teaching that whippersnapper a thing or two :D
 
bud green said:
Anyone think a match between these guys to see who should play in the world 14.1 tourney is in order?

How about a nice 200 point game for the spot in the tourney and some side action to spice it up. Bomber said he back CW all day long against Grady. NY cue dude sounds like he'd throw some cash down.

I'll bet all my vcash on Grady teaching that whippersnapper a thing or two :D
Click to expand...

Grady would have no excuse not to agree to this, considering how adamant he is about how Charlie is not qualified to play in the tournament, and of course he's confident that he himself is not only qualified, but absolutely entitled to play.

Question is, what incentive does Charlie Williams have to do it, other than pride and possibly action? It's his tournament, I think he'd be inclined to say Grady has to qualify the normal way, instead of having the opportunity to get in by winning a single match. It wouldn't be fair to other players who aren't yet in the tournament and want to be.

-Andrew
 
Oh it would be just as fair... Charlie is not qualifying... so giving up his spot is not a problem!

I am in favor of the match 100%. I want to see some real action with people backing up their words on the table.
 
The biggest problem would be Charlie ever noticing the posts.
I really believe the only time he ever visits is to post an advertisement for one of his tournaments.
 
In all reality this post isnt needed because although it sounds good,it will never happen,as for the outcome........:confused:
 
charlie beat grady last time

The last time (and only time) charlie matched up with grady in 14.1 was at a us open qualifier.

They played in the 3rd round and charlie crushed him. Charlie went on to the finals, only to lose to Mika 123-125.

Otherwise, Charlie doesn't really care about either Grady or this controversy. He has no intention of passifiying or indulging Grady, sorry folks.

Randy
 
I'd like to see Grady play CW some 1 pocket.

bud green said:
Anyone think a match between these guys to see who should play in the world 14.1 tourney is in order?

How about a nice 200 point game for the spot in the tourney and some side action to spice it up. Bomber said he back CW all day long against Grady. NY cue dude sounds like he'd throw some cash down.

I'll bet all my vcash on Grady teaching that whippersnapper a thing or two :D
Click to expand...
 
First, when I lost to Charlie in that qualifier, he was one and a half hours late and was still allowed to play. And he got lucky when he missed three times.
I would play him but on tough pockets, not the joke 6 inch pockets that the BCA uses.
I want 14.1 lovers and upcoming players to understand what this is really about, in my mind. I was a quiet sucker for years and got invited to nothing. Today's problem is that there are at least two or three hundred hundred ball runners in the world. Inviting 64 players just isn't fair nor is it a World Championship.
Sure, I'm in the twilight of my playing career. So what. That's even more reason for guys like me to get an automatic invite.
I should have known the BCA and the WPA were involved. They're worse than the UPA and that's saying something.
Look, there's no sense in my belaboring anything. I don't have anything left to prove concerning my career. I played everybody for money and did all right; I mean I raised a family, with no entitlements. I feel like I'm a blessed man, perfect health, literally hundreds of friends, a worthwhile if not especially lucrative career, a great wife, etc.
These orgs. and charlie Williams types need to be addressed, though or it'll get worse, as regards favortism and politics. So I'm gonna fight this in the only respectable way I know, by putting on good, nay great events.
How about One Pocket, Bank Pool and 14.1 together? Anyone can play in the One Pocket and Bank Pool but no WPA or UPA members will be allowed in the Straight Pool.
 
Grady, I know nothing of the politics involved or what assumptions must be satisfied to host a recognized “World Championship” but as a fan I think 14.1 is a perfect example of a game that should welcome some of the champions of your vintage. Possibly the high runs may not be as prevalent as at one time in your career but you and many of your contemporaries may play in a style that some can learn from picking intelligent patterns and when to play safe etc. Some of the younger players as they may make astounding runs do so due to a greater extent on raw firepower, which is fun to watch but both approaches have their place in a good spectacle.

On another note I for one really appreciate your kindness in taking time and spending time in the AZ room a few weeks ago. You have been very generous with your knowledge now as in the past, I was fortunate to get a lesson from you a few years ago when you came to Anchorage and many of those things I still think of whenever I play.

thanks
 
Last edited:
Grady said:
Today's problem is that there are at least two or three hundred hundred ball runners in the world. Inviting 64 players just isn't fair nor is it a World Championship.
Click to expand...

Grady, I respectfully submit that you might be off in this estimate by a factor of ten. Even three hundred 100 ball-runners would equate to only 6 per US state, let alone the rest of the world.

The worldwide number is probably around 2,000, in my opinion. So this presents a problem, because you can't invite 2,000 people, nor can you hold an open tournament where you might expect 2,000 entries.

It would seem that the logical thing to do would be to restrict the entrants to, say, ever having run 200 balls. This might cut your eligible pool down to 100 or 200 players worldwide. But the problem with this is that many of the 200 ball-runners in the world are from the older generation and no longer play at that level.

No system is perfect, but in my opinion, an invitation-only event with qualifiers is a better way to go than an open event. Open events are difficult to plan because of the uncertainty in terms of size, especially with regards to 14.1 (where matches can take anywhere from 1 to 3+ hours).

- Steve
 
Why don't you just qualify?

I don't know if it is a 'respect' issue or not. I can't for the life of me figure out why you don't try to qualify for the tourney. I bet that an accomplished player such as yourself should have no problem making it through the events and into the big show. And if you can't then you don't need to be there this year. I am a golfer by trade, and I can tell you that there are a lot of guys out there that can shoot 64, but they still either have to earn their spot on the tour, or they have to monday qualify, or be some premodonna that gets a sponser exemption. I don't see too many seniors getting them.
Frankly, I would love to see you make it through, and then place in the money. That would be a great big plate of 'shut the hell up, I told you so'. But as it stands now, you don't appear to be up there in the national standing of any polls that I can find (anymore). So, please stop chumping on CW, he is or was doing great thing for billiards, until the billionare (KT) came along and dumped uddles of cash into our sport to make it or in hopes of making it freaking way better than ever. At least now if a kid says "I want to go pro in billiards when I get older" they wont catch as much crap as I did, because now there is a ton of cash to be made. (outside of gambling)

Just my 2 cents, wanted or not.
 
Steve Lipsky said:
Grady, I respectfully submit that you might be off in this estimate by a factor of ten. Even three hundred 100 ball-runners would equate to only 6 per US state, let alone the rest of the world.

The worldwide number is probably around 2,000, in my opinion. So this presents a problem, because you can't invite 2,000 people, nor can you hold an open tournament where you might expect 2,000 entries.



- Steve
Click to expand...


I’m curious when you or Grady refer to “100 ball runners” do you mean someone that is a potential threat to run 100 anytime they step to the table or someone that has run 100 at least once in their life? Grady’s ballpark estimate sounds like the former and yours sounds like the ladder. Just wondering how you gauge it.

thanks
 
breakup said:
I’m curious when you or Grady refer to “100 ball runners” do you mean someone that is a potential threat to run 100 anytime they step to the table or someone that has run 100 at least once in their life? Grady’s ballpark estimate sounds like the former and yours sounds like the ladder. Just wondering how you gauge it.

thanks
Click to expand...


Hi Breakup... I think we are both talking about the former. If you are talking about anyone that has ever run 100, the size of the pool probably shoots up significantly higher.
 
I've got $1000 RCash ("real" cash) that Grady beats Charlie in a game to 450 points. Charlie could fluke a win to 150 points...but to 450 he has no chance.
 
im with you grady! all of the world torneys i played in you just had to put up your entry fee....i, like you, would love to give it a try again but....i cant fly to ny, or pa. just to qualify....i live in fla. now.....why not have on in the south? they could have just the first 16 invited and the rest could be the first paid entrants....anyway i miss playing with you....we have had some good sessions in our day...pat from rochester
 
Pat, you're one of the classiest guys ever in pool and a great 14.1 player. You deserve an invite. I've really tried to change the invitational aspect of our sport but I haven't gotten anywhere. Nice to hear from you, Grady
 
I dont think people understand what a "qualifyer" is all about It virtually is stacked against an older player. Taking place in one days time the winning player has to play 7 or 8 times to get to the top. It just gets brutal. The qualifyer is for the young After spending 30 or 40 years in the game you just dont want to go through it
I saw Grady play in a New York qualifyer alongside Jack Colavito and John Ervolino Steve Lipsky and Bob Maidhoff played in it as well. Now in my estimation Grady, Ervolino, and Colavito shouldve gotten a standing invite to any 14.1 tournament in the world. The 3 of them played great I think Colavito ended up in the final 6. But to get there was so tough Jack had no time to rest and eat between matches. And the young talent with stamina was getting better and stronger. The odds were just stacked against these 3 older gents who still played a great game
Now in the old days the field was not so big so you didnt think of not inviting a Crane or Lassiter to a 141 tourney even if they were at a low ebb to their game But with the field so big now with international talent and properly tutored cueists it makes it hard
Well Ervolino is gone as well as Colavito and I regret they never won the qualifyer (Danny Barouty did) and never got to play in that NY tourney But just think what it would have meant to us to see Johnny and Jack in their tuxedo's shining in their one last hour in a game they have given so much too What would it have cost those promoters to field those 3 older gents who have only attracted people to the game. It would only have been for the good of the game on every count and it would have made the promoters and their tournament a historical event befitting the sport
 
Steve Lipsky said:
Grady, I respectfully submit that you might be off in this estimate by a factor of ten. Even three hundred 100 ball-runners would equate to only 6 per US state, let alone the rest of the world.

The worldwide number is probably around 2,000, in my opinion. So this presents a problem, because you can't invite 2,000 people, nor can you hold an open tournament where you might expect 2,000 entries.

It would seem that the logical thing to do would be to restrict the entrants to, say, ever having run 200 balls. This might cut your eligible pool down to 100 or 200 players worldwide. But the problem with this is that many of the 200 ball-runners in the world are from the older generation and no longer play at that level.

No system is perfect, but in my opinion, an invitation-only event with qualifiers is a better way to go than an open event. Open events are difficult to plan because of the uncertainty in terms of size, especially with regards to 14.1 (where matches can take anywhere from 1 to 3+ hours).

- Steve
Click to expand...


Hey Steve,
I'd like to know who those six guys are in South Dakota or Wyoming. You find me one hundred ball runner in either of those states and dinners on me. Outside of the Northeast, 14.1 is barely played anymore. Oh, maybe a few little pockets here and there, but mighty few.
Being from the N.Y.C. area maybe you think everyone is on New York time and dime. 14.1 is not quite dead yet, but it is on the endangered species list. Thanks to Bob Jewett and his innovative event in Louisville and Charlie Williams and the Dragon Promotions tourney, 14.1 may be getting a little CPR.
I would probably agree that an invitational event is the way to go. Leaving room for eight or more to qualify in a preliminary event would only enhance the event.
I'm sure Grady would still be competitive if given the opportunity to play.
He hasn't lost that much in his game, and he could still spring an upset of a top player. Grady is one of those players that just when you overlook him, he snaps someone off. If you ever play him (even 14.1) you might find out.
He sliced and diced me a time or two.
 
yobagua said:
I dont think people understand what a "qualifyer" is all about It virtually is stacked against an older player. Taking place in one days time the winning player has to play 7 or 8 times to get to the top. It just gets brutal. The qualifyer is for the young After spending 30 or 40 years in the game you just dont want to go through it
I saw Grady play in a New York qualifyer alongside Jack Colavito and John Ervolino Steve Lipsky and Bob Maidhoff played in it as well. Now in my estimation Grady, Ervolino, and Colavito shouldve gotten a standing invite to any 14.1 tournament in the world. The 3 of them played great I think Colavito ended up in the final 6. But to get there was so tough Jack had no time to rest and eat between matches. And the young talent with stamina was getting better and stronger. The odds were just stacked against these 3 older gents who still played a great game
Now in the old days the field was not so big so you didnt think of not inviting a Crane or Lassiter to a 141 tourney even if they were at a low ebb to their game But with the field so big now with international talent and properly tutored cueists it makes it hard
Well Ervolino is gone as well as Colavito and I regret they never won the qualifyer (Danny Barouty did) and never got to play in that NY tourney But just think what it would have meant to us to see Johnny and Jack in their tuxedo's shining in their one last hour in a game they have given so much too What would it have cost those promoters to field those 3 older gents who have only attracted people to the game. It would only have been for the good of the game on every count and it would have made the promoters and their tournament a historical event befitting the sport
Click to expand...


Point well taken. Very well said!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top