I got to see Justin Bergman, Chia-Chin Wu, Albin Oushan & John Morra all play this year at the World Junior 9-Ball Championships in Australia. Wu is a machine!!! I see that he is playing in the BCA Open this year. Big kid with a great future. Bergman has a great attitude. I thought he was the best USA player, although they say Tyler Strawn is better under pressure. Morra is a big time fighter. Hides emotions really well. Very mature for his age. I like his game. Oushan needs work on his break, but also very, very mature for 14. All 4 should have bright futures in pool.
Great Junior Amateur Players
- Thread starter AceHigh
- Start date
john mora gets my vote
i saw john morra work the money tables at the super billiard expo in 2004, i didnt know who he was til i saw the next pool and billiards mag, this kid is strong, he also is tearing it up in the canadian tours, just read that in the latest pool mags, he plays stone cold, kid looks like hes in a coma when he plays, quiet, nice and respectable, not to many young ones out there i can say that about, i give him credit, i hope he stays on the same path and rockes the pol world,
pat
i saw john morra work the money tables at the super billiard expo in 2004, i didnt know who he was til i saw the next pool and billiards mag, this kid is strong, he also is tearing it up in the canadian tours, just read that in the latest pool mags, he plays stone cold, kid looks like hes in a coma when he plays, quiet, nice and respectable, not to many young ones out there i can say that about, i give him credit, i hope he stays on the same path and rockes the pol world,
pat
AceHigh said:
I saw John Morra at this years Expo, definitely won more games than he lost on the action tables. I was up stairs taking pictures of finals when they started handing out the trophys for the amature events. When they called out his name he didn't show, called his name for about a half hour. I was ready to leave and I went down to the action table for a look before I left and I caught him finishing up a set aganist an other young man named John, that set was for $1500 from what I was told. He had so much money in the wad he had, he couldn't put the money on it. He gave it to his dad, who was watching, off they walked. Kids definitely got game, one cool customer.
sjm said:
Who cares if he is a pro? We are talking top under 18 players, noone said "not including pro's" which would IMO be a pretty lame limiting factor since you are then not looking for the "great" but the "pretty good but not TOO good" young players. It is almost like you discredit the kid because he is a pro, I would say that should be applauded not disclude him from being in a discussion like this. For all the experiance and game the kid has he is STILL 16 frickin years old. Just because he is that good that he already made it to the top and plays pro pool should not mean he is no longer compared to his peers who are still fighting to get there. Yu-Lun Wu who actually beat Chia-Chang in the finals of last years world championships is also another player I dont think any under 18 kid in America would want any part of. Having watched the tournament I can tell you John Morra as good as he is (quite possibly the best under 18 in North America) aint at that level of those two. Keep in mind Jasmine Oschan also lost the finals of the Womens World Juniors last year to player from Tapai, and there was noone in the house that would bet on Jasmine before the match started without odds or games on the wire. If you were there and had watched both making their way to the finals you would know why.
I find it almost funny that in a discussion like this everyone wants to discuss the top young American talent that will lead the way into the future and when you bring up the Asian contingent of the same age group as a comparison you get someone that goes "well they dont count, they are pro's". Those 16 year old pro's will be drilling people for the next 30 years including all your up comming American talent who are already years behind in level. North America better get its act together or else it will be a pretty dry next few decades with few victories on the international pool scene. This is what happens when the game is treated like a sport and young talent actually is given the proper resources to succeed in a environment that supports the game.
Celtic said:
Then let's say it --- Wu is quite probably the best under 18 player in the world. My comment was no more than a reaction to the thread title "great junior amateur players," and certainly not an attempt to contest or deny the magnificence of Wu as a rising star in pool.
I'd further suggest that the bias toward American junior amateurs reflects no more than the fact that on a forum consisting cheifly of Americans, we're just mentioning the players we've gotten to watch. There's little doubt in my mind that there is an abundance of junior amateur talent in Asia, but I, and no doubt many others on the forum, can't name any of them.
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Whats an amateur pool player? I personally dont think I have ever met one that could run four balls. This is a sport with no amateur scene to speak of. John Morra is clearly no amateur, he is playing most of the biggest money events near him he can enter and making good money doing so. Just because the pool scene here gives the younger players less ability to get into the major events like the San Miguel does I would not say makes them any less "pro" since they play for money every chance they get. This is a game played for money, whether you are playing on the Joss tour or on the San Miguel tour you are playing pro level pool and you are also playing "professionally" as you are making money doing it. The difference between Wu and the Americans is the opportunities that Asia is offering atm compared to the USA. Being a pro pool player in America atm is tough and hard to really say Archer is doing atm, if not for sponsers he would be hard pressed to feed his family due to the expense of playing this game. I cannot think he made much cash on his trip to Calgary if he had to catch the expenses. You simply cannot limit this kind of question to "amateur" because that is a VERY subjective term and I dont see much of a difference between Morra and Wu atm in the amount of cash paying tournaments they are playing, only that Wu is lucky enough to be in an area that has a proper tour with more money and better fields.
OldHasBeen
Tom Ferry
I'm not "A Backer", But...........
I would be willing to bet a considerable sum on Justin Bergman playing ANYONE (18 or younger) on earth at The Break Billiards, here in St. Louis.
I know that Justin Bergman will and does "Bet His Own" but if there is any part he doesen't want - I'll be there.
Now I'm not saying No One Under 18 CAN"T beat him in an Ahead Race of 9-Ball, I'm just saying - I'll pay to see it!
TY & GL
I would be willing to bet a considerable sum on Justin Bergman playing ANYONE (18 or younger) on earth at The Break Billiards, here in St. Louis.
I know that Justin Bergman will and does "Bet His Own" but if there is any part he doesen't want - I'll be there.
Now I'm not saying No One Under 18 CAN"T beat him in an Ahead Race of 9-Ball, I'm just saying - I'll pay to see it!
TY & GL
OldHasBeen said:
I would be willing to take that bet with a number of players, from what I've heard Bergman is a fantastic player but he couldn't beat Morra at last years BCA Nationals and if he can't beat Morra he certainly doesn't stand a chance against either of the Wu's. I would also take this bet if he played against German Nicolas Otterman, that kid plays better than Morra IMO he is just lesser known being from Germany.
Yeah OHB you really dont want any piece of either Wu against Bergman. YOu really would be "paying" to see it.
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2005.cfm?playernum=3710
That there is Chia-Chang Wu, a kid. Look at the fields he is placing high in, he is playing at the same speed of Bustamante, Reyes, Yang, and all the other big boys on the San Miguel. And as for Yu-Lun Wu, Yu-Lun has a WAY better break then Chia-Chang (or Bustamante for that matter) and I am actually shocked we are not seeing more of him as well because he puts multiple racks together in his sleep at a level above virtually all American pro's minus Archer and Strickland and the other truely top names. Both of these guys play as good if not better then Pagulayan did at the same age.
As for Morra, I am not sure how close he is to Bergman, I do know Morra is tearing up the tournament scene in Eastern Canada now and beating all the big boys out there. I dont think it would be that hard to get a match.
Albin Oschan will be really good I have a feeling, he was younger then the Wu's in the worlds and when he is the same age he could actually be close to their level. At 14 he had the composure of a pro, but he chopped up due to nerves in the Worlds, and in all honesty those Tapai players dont have nerves at all, they are kinda scary.
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2005.cfm?playernum=3710
That there is Chia-Chang Wu, a kid. Look at the fields he is placing high in, he is playing at the same speed of Bustamante, Reyes, Yang, and all the other big boys on the San Miguel. And as for Yu-Lun Wu, Yu-Lun has a WAY better break then Chia-Chang (or Bustamante for that matter) and I am actually shocked we are not seeing more of him as well because he puts multiple racks together in his sleep at a level above virtually all American pro's minus Archer and Strickland and the other truely top names. Both of these guys play as good if not better then Pagulayan did at the same age.
As for Morra, I am not sure how close he is to Bergman, I do know Morra is tearing up the tournament scene in Eastern Canada now and beating all the big boys out there. I dont think it would be that hard to get a match.
Albin Oschan will be really good I have a feeling, he was younger then the Wu's in the worlds and when he is the same age he could actually be close to their level. At 14 he had the composure of a pro, but he chopped up due to nerves in the Worlds, and in all honesty those Tapai players dont have nerves at all, they are kinda scary.
Jason Klatt lost 11-4 against 14 year old Albin Oschan in the world juniors in November of 2004. It was not even close, Albin showed alot more skill and composure at the table and Klatt looked like he just wanted to be put out of his misery after the first 6 games.
Albin then proceeded to play Yu-Lun Wu and get demolished, he got 4 games in the race to 11. Albin did not shoot bad in this match, he hardly shot at all and only missed one truely bad shot when he was already down huge due to Yu-Lun running out about 8 racks from the break, including a 6-pack. Yu-Lun could have beat anyone in the world shooting as he was junior or not.
Nicholas Otterman, a tall 17 year old German who was named above as a top player got totally drilled by Yu-Lun Wu, 11-3. If I remember correctly Yu-Lun won the lag and broke and ran the first rack. He then broke the second rack and either scratched or came up dry, Otterman ran out to make it 1-1. At that point Wu just took over and put multiple racks on Otterman leaving him sitting in his chair. Otterman did not shoot bad in this match, I think he missed 1 pot the entire match late in the set and lost 11-3. That should tell you something about the level of these Tapai players.
In Chia-Changs match against Marco Schmidt he ran a 9-pack. Marco got to the table twice. Score, 11-0.
Chia-Chang's score against Morra? 11-2. As bad as that sounds it means Morra got more games off him then most players did.
The finals was the only interesting match, Wu vs Wu, while most of the people figured Chia-Chang the favorite those people were not really looking at the breaking skill. Yu-Lun Wu probably has the best break in pool, not just the juniors, I mean of anyone in the world a 15 year old kid breaks the balls better then anyone. He snaps in 2 balls on a average break, 3 is not at all uncommon, and if he only makes 1 ball it is a shock. This is the same table that Albin, John Morra, and others could not string racks on because they could not make balls with their breaks so Yu-Lun's success was not simply a easy table to break on. Plus the control of Yu-Lun's break is phenomenal despite the massive power, the cueball comes off the pack and stops dead center of the table. The kid is tiny but he snaps his wrist and really turns his hip into the break with a awesome followthrough. Chia-Chang's break failed him in this match, he is the better shot, more a pro style stroke like a Bustamente compared to a compact straight simple stroke of Yu-Lun that would mimick maybe Jim Rempe pretty well. Yu-Lun still shoots phenomenal, he simply does not miss pots, he may not spin the balls in like Chia but with his powerful break and simple effective stroke he makes you pay for any time you let him at the table huge. You miss you are probably going to lose 3 games before you see the table again. This is how Chia-Chang got owned, he broke and scratched or came up dry and it would cost him multiple games before he got out of his chair again.
http://www.wpapool.com/index.asp?content=events
There you can click on the brackets of the World Juniors from November. This basically tells you what all these kids did we are talking about on this thread only 6 months or so ago. I did not see all the early matches, I caught only some of the quarters, semi's and saw the finals on TV here in Oz.
If any of you can get the finals or the semi's on video in any way I reccommend it.
Albin then proceeded to play Yu-Lun Wu and get demolished, he got 4 games in the race to 11. Albin did not shoot bad in this match, he hardly shot at all and only missed one truely bad shot when he was already down huge due to Yu-Lun running out about 8 racks from the break, including a 6-pack. Yu-Lun could have beat anyone in the world shooting as he was junior or not.
Nicholas Otterman, a tall 17 year old German who was named above as a top player got totally drilled by Yu-Lun Wu, 11-3. If I remember correctly Yu-Lun won the lag and broke and ran the first rack. He then broke the second rack and either scratched or came up dry, Otterman ran out to make it 1-1. At that point Wu just took over and put multiple racks on Otterman leaving him sitting in his chair. Otterman did not shoot bad in this match, I think he missed 1 pot the entire match late in the set and lost 11-3. That should tell you something about the level of these Tapai players.
In Chia-Changs match against Marco Schmidt he ran a 9-pack. Marco got to the table twice. Score, 11-0.
Chia-Chang's score against Morra? 11-2. As bad as that sounds it means Morra got more games off him then most players did.
The finals was the only interesting match, Wu vs Wu, while most of the people figured Chia-Chang the favorite those people were not really looking at the breaking skill. Yu-Lun Wu probably has the best break in pool, not just the juniors, I mean of anyone in the world a 15 year old kid breaks the balls better then anyone. He snaps in 2 balls on a average break, 3 is not at all uncommon, and if he only makes 1 ball it is a shock. This is the same table that Albin, John Morra, and others could not string racks on because they could not make balls with their breaks so Yu-Lun's success was not simply a easy table to break on. Plus the control of Yu-Lun's break is phenomenal despite the massive power, the cueball comes off the pack and stops dead center of the table. The kid is tiny but he snaps his wrist and really turns his hip into the break with a awesome followthrough. Chia-Chang's break failed him in this match, he is the better shot, more a pro style stroke like a Bustamente compared to a compact straight simple stroke of Yu-Lun that would mimick maybe Jim Rempe pretty well. Yu-Lun still shoots phenomenal, he simply does not miss pots, he may not spin the balls in like Chia but with his powerful break and simple effective stroke he makes you pay for any time you let him at the table huge. You miss you are probably going to lose 3 games before you see the table again. This is how Chia-Chang got owned, he broke and scratched or came up dry and it would cost him multiple games before he got out of his chair again.
http://www.wpapool.com/index.asp?content=events
There you can click on the brackets of the World Juniors from November. This basically tells you what all these kids did we are talking about on this thread only 6 months or so ago. I did not see all the early matches, I caught only some of the quarters, semi's and saw the finals on TV here in Oz.
If any of you can get the finals or the semi's on video in any way I reccommend it.
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A few years ago
I think another person to talk about who played great was Shane McMinn. A few years ago, he was beating up on a lot of people. I have heard that he ran into some personal problems for a while but the last I heard he has gotten over that. I also thought I read something about him going around with Corey Deuel. He has won the BCA Juniors multiple times and has always been a top caliber player. He has always been a class act everytime I have seen him as well.
I think another person to talk about who played great was Shane McMinn. A few years ago, he was beating up on a lot of people. I have heard that he ran into some personal problems for a while but the last I heard he has gotten over that. I also thought I read something about him going around with Corey Deuel. He has won the BCA Juniors multiple times and has always been a top caliber player. He has always been a class act everytime I have seen him as well.
There are actually a few really strong American junior players that are on the same level as the one’s mentioned. In any one particular year I see a few really strong junior players that have a game that really turns heads and can compete with any junior player in the country. For one reason or another they all don’t show up every year to compete at the BCA Junior Championship. I sometimes think that the people are guiding them have them staying below radar. 
There are some really good 10,11,12,13 year olds that are coming up that are going to be outstanding players too if they keep it up.
There are some really good 10,11,12,13 year olds that are coming up that are going to be outstanding players too if they keep it up.
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Never under estimate a player in his home room.sniper said:
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
I was looking for those brackets yesterday, I went to the wrong WPA site.
Anyways I see that some of the matches between Yu Lun Wu and some of the Europeans were very close, he actually lost his second round match with Marcus Schmidt so it shows the kid is human like any other player. Jason Klatt looked very impressive at the SML Open, he beat Tyler Edey which is damn impressive for a nineteen year old.
Anyways I see that some of the matches between Yu Lun Wu and some of the Europeans were very close, he actually lost his second round match with Marcus Schmidt so it shows the kid is human like any other player. Jason Klatt looked very impressive at the SML Open, he beat Tyler Edey which is damn impressive for a nineteen year old.
Mitch Ellermankyles said:I played a kid in Phoenix AZ named Mitch, I think he was 17 at the time, didn't know his last name, but he strung 2 - 3 racks at a time playing 9ball. And high runs in the 50's for straight, I know I couldn't phase that when I was 17. I was still trying to spell pool.
kyles
Just some more information on the Wus.
1) They're from Taiwan, not 'Taipai'. Taipei's the capital city in the northern part of the island.
2) Wu Yu Lun doesn't have the same publicity has Chia Ching in Taiwan, because he doesn't play in as many pro events.
3) Wu Yu Lun placed 4th in the last All Japan Open. He was beaten in the semi finals by Mika Immonent 11-3. The Japan open has a very strong field, with Ralf Souquet taking the title this year.
4) Wu Chia Ching actually started playing 'pro' pool about 2.5 years ago. I saw him playing on TV against Yang when he was 14, he lost only narrowly.
1) They're from Taiwan, not 'Taipai'. Taipei's the capital city in the northern part of the island.
2) Wu Yu Lun doesn't have the same publicity has Chia Ching in Taiwan, because he doesn't play in as many pro events.
3) Wu Yu Lun placed 4th in the last All Japan Open. He was beaten in the semi finals by Mika Immonent 11-3. The Japan open has a very strong field, with Ralf Souquet taking the title this year.
4) Wu Chia Ching actually started playing 'pro' pool about 2.5 years ago. I saw him playing on TV against Yang when he was 14, he lost only narrowly.
SplicedPoints said:
They do not call it Taiwan when they claim where he is from.
http://www.cbsa.ca/news/pressrelease080702.htm
"Chia-Ching Wu (Chinese Taipei)"
http://www.azbilliards.com/2004sanmiguel/manila/index.cfm?storynum=1812
"So Chinese Taipei’s title hope in Manila will fall with the 15-year-old Wu Chia Ching."
http://www.newsflash.org/2003/05/sp/sp002936.htm
"Chamat lost to Chinese Taipei’s Chia Ching Wu, 8-9"
So I spelt Taipei wrong. That is still better then attempting to use the word Taiwan against the normal grain of this and every other news site out there. The WPA used (TPE) beside his name to show his country, that would NOT be the initials for "Taiwan".
I was waiting for someone to finally mention Canadian Jason Klatt. He has 1 year of junior eligibility left. The kid can play. He is the reigning Canadian Junior 9-Ball Champion & the 2003 runner-up. John Morra is the only other Canadian Junior that is in the same class as Klatt. His mental game does haunt him at times, like at the World's against Albin Ouschan. He got down on himself early in the match, then a couple bad rolls destroyed him. But he has been on the road a lot this year with his pal, Erik Hjorleifson. This has got to make him mentally stronger. Klatt / Morra Canadian Junior final could be a classic, if it happens.
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