I doubt it - got an example in mind?
I don’t know. What do you think?
In front of the hand (obviously). Does weight distribution matter?
Does any of this matter?
pj
chgo
GRIP QUESTION
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
Does any of this matter?
pj
chgo
i think you could grip the cue in front of the balance point which would put the majority of the weight behind the hand
icbw
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Sit on the floor. Reach for a heavy object behind you and bring it forward to your lap. If your torso moves forward with the effort, your hand is gripping the object as you pull it forward.
Some players grip the cue and pull it forward into impact, some do a gentle toss with the hand turned sideways--a typical stroke motion--and even a throw-and-catch forward slip stroke is possible.
I don't think it matters much. Different strokes, different folks.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Nope. lol. Semantics really. Maybe we meet halfway....
Technically, given where force is applied to the object and where its weight is, we have a push of the object. However....
Looking strictly at the body and what it is doing, we have a hand that is behind us which is clearly pulled forward and closer to the force producing muscles that cause it to move. So we have a pull because the hand is being pulled (along with whatever it is holding on to).
Anatomical pull causing a push of an object? Who cares lol.
if you look at players that keep long rear extensions on their cue to play all shotsIf you grip in front of the balance point, you're going to have a helluva time trying to keep the shaft on the bridge
they dont seem to have trouble keeping the shaft on their bridge hand
i assume for those players their grip hand is in front of the balance point
There are' some shots, where you must ''choke up'' on the handle to get desired results.If you grip in front of the balance point, you're going to have a helluva time trying to keep the shaft on the bridge
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
right. still not past the balance point imo. if u go past it u have to add some pressure to keep the cue down bc its own weight wont do that any more.
Jack Hines grabbed forward, and I've seen others choke up/on a break shot to get more speed.
Yes. A pool cue. Aren't you saying the player is pushing and pulling it at the same time?
Well, I'd say it's definitely a pull in the follow through motion, particularly in the pendulum armswing where the forearm is pulled up against the upper arm, like a dumbbell hammer curl. I don't know about the rest of the stroke motion, though.
It matters if you are making an assumption (and a statement) that might not be accurate.
Seems to me we view this from different perspectives: you from the perspective of the player ("when am I pushing/pulling?"), me from the perspective of the "object" ("when am I being pushed/pulled?").
Neither answer matters to how I play - you do you.
pj
chgo
P.S. Regarding your question about "the part that's in the hand": I don't see that as being pushed or pulled. If you were holding anything else within your hand, like a cue ball... would it be pushed or pulled?
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It matters to me. I think that the portion that is in your hand would have to be treated as if it were part of your anatomy as opposed to being in front or behind. If you didn't care, then you probably shouldn't have weighed-in with a post on this, because I'm not sure your response is all that accurate.
I happen to think that it's really interesting as to how we would define movement of an object in our hand that extends both behind and forward of the hand.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I tend to agree with Fran here. The object in the hand is treated as part of the hand. So then whether it is a push or pull comes down to what is happening to the hand. The hand is clearly being pulled closer to the force producers.
But as I said earlier and PJ mentioned as well, we really are using the same word a bit differently and looking at this from different perspectives....object vs body.
Anotomical pull that results in a push of an object is a swell compromise that leaves nobody happy
. moving on...
But as I said earlier and PJ mentioned as well, we really are using the same word a bit differently and looking at this from different perspectives....object vs body.
Anotomical pull that results in a push of an object is a swell compromise that leaves nobody happy
. moving on...
pagaspoling
Member
So if we only focus on the cue and the force the body applies to it, not how the body applies it, its pretty obvious that the cue is being pushed. This is important because any force applied to the cue thats not in line with the mass center will result in a torque around the cues mass center and in order to keep the cue moving straight you would have to compensate this movement with more torque later in the stroke. This sounds like a something you would like to avoid to me.
If we focus on how the body applies it it is clear that the elbow flexion is a pull but I think if you flex the shoulder that would be a push? Anyhow I don't think it's that important to define this as a pull or push. We could just define which movements are being made and which muscles that is being used.
If I'm trying to tip over something big and heavy you would first push with your body and your arms close to you. As you feel the heavy thing start moving you would start to push with your arms as well. Wouldn't this be a case of the arm movement lagging the body in a push. Or is my definition of lag off somehow? Really off topic here..
If we focus on how the body applies it it is clear that the elbow flexion is a pull but I think if you flex the shoulder that would be a push? Anyhow I don't think it's that important to define this as a pull or push. We could just define which movements are being made and which muscles that is being used.
If I'm trying to tip over something big and heavy you would first push with your body and your arms close to you. As you feel the heavy thing start moving you would start to push with your arms as well. Wouldn't this be a case of the arm movement lagging the body in a push. Or is my definition of lag off somehow? Really off topic here..
I'm kind of surprised you're asking that question because it implies that you are of the opinion that as long as nothing changes in the outcome, it's okay if the definition is inaccurate.