grip?
- Thread starter trob
- Start date
Oh, you thought that meant you could criticize me freely without response? Consider yourself corrected.
Ignore me and I'll gladly go back to ignoring you.
pj
chgo
You seem to want to initiate hostilities again, Jim. Why not just ignore me as I've been doing with you? Why try to disrupt the forum?av84fun said:
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
No Patrick. I was merely pointing out statements of yours that I believe to be incorrect.
As usual, it was you who initiated impudent remarks such as referring to trob's initial post as a "training wheel" question.
I even complimented you for being correct a lot. But then you launch into more personal swipes such as...
I will not join you in further bickering. If you have pool-related questions to ask me, then do so with some semblance of courtesy and I will respond in kind.
Regards,
Jim
..... (JK)
You mean like this?
Or this?
Yes, I see how innocent you are.
You'll initiate it but not "join in it"? LOL.
pj
chgo
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Patrick, let's just discuss specific issues, one at a time.
You have stated that the forearm of the bridge hand should be held in a vertical position.
A BCA instructor and a reputable poster join me in disagreeing with you on that. Rather, the forearm should be held perpendicular to the cue which is infrequently held level, or nearly so, and therefore, the forearm would infrequently be held in a vertical position.
In spite of the above views, do you still hold to your original statement?
Regards,
Jim
You have stated that the forearm of the bridge hand should be held in a vertical position.
A BCA instructor and a reputable poster join me in disagreeing with you on that. Rather, the forearm should be held perpendicular to the cue which is infrequently held level, or nearly so, and therefore, the forearm would infrequently be held in a vertical position.
In spite of the above views, do you still hold to your original statement?
Regards,
Jim
Jim, it doesn't matter whether or not we agree on that or anything, and there's only one issue we need to "discuss". Please stop trying to instigate friction as the moderator here has requested.av84fun said:
pj
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Well...I appreciate all of your thoughts. I do believe I tend to choke up a bit to much but I'm just not comfortable with my hand that far back in my grip.
As far as patrick was concerened lol I don't get upset with guys like that. It wasn't a training wheel question. I've been playing long enough and running tables that I past the training wheel stage 15 years ago. I was just getting some thoughts from fellow players. I've been posting on forums long enough to read half his post..realise it's just going to be someone being a smart a$$ and move on. If I'm not interested in a thread or tired of one that I've had befor I just move on to another. Some people just have a need to talk down to people and use internet forums to do so since they probobly don't have the guts in real life. lol
Life is to short to get anoyed by petty bs like that
move on.
As far as patrick was concerened lol I don't get upset with guys like that. It wasn't a training wheel question. I've been playing long enough and running tables that I past the training wheel stage 15 years ago. I was just getting some thoughts from fellow players. I've been posting on forums long enough to read half his post..realise it's just going to be someone being a smart a$$ and move on. If I'm not interested in a thread or tired of one that I've had befor I just move on to another. Some people just have a need to talk down to people and use internet forums to do so since they probobly don't have the guts in real life. lol
Life is to short to get anoyed by petty bs like that
move on.
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Patrick Johnson said:
Just messin' with you Pat.
It is infrequent that I change bend my bridge arm but occasionally do that on a some jump shots.
I also move my back forearm forward past perpendicular to the floor when I do not want to follow through the cue ball and possibly cause a double hit on the cue ball.
FTR, Keith McCready once told me that I had to learn when and where to place my back hand in different positions for different shots. Still working on that.
I think cue balls almost frozen on the rail sometimes demand a different back hand placement.
JoeyA
trob said:Well...I appreciate all of your thoughts. I do believe I tend to choke up a bit to much but I'm just not comfortable with my hand that far back in my grip.
As far as patrick was concerened lol I don't get upset with guys like that. It wasn't a training wheel question. I've been playing long enough and running tables that I past the training wheel stage 15 years ago. I was just getting some thoughts from fellow players. I've been posting on forums long enough to read half his post..realise it's just going to be someone being a smart a$$ and move on. If I'm not interested in a thread or tired of one that I've had befor I just move on to another. Some people just have a need to talk down to people and use internet forums to do so since they probobly don't have the guts in real life. lol
Life is to short to get anoyed by petty bs like that
Just for the record, trob, my post to you wasn't intended to be impolite (the questions in parentheses are real questions), and my "training wheels" remark was about my posting style, not ginsu's or yours (and not about anybody's game).
Don't take too seriously the pot-stirring of those with personal axes to grind.
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
Of course, as the history of this thread proves, I did not instigate friction except to the extent that you feel friction whenever anyone points out that you are wrong...at which point you get up in arms and start hurling personal attacks....while suggesting that I instigated them.
In fact, I complimented you on being often correct and only commented that you have been incorrect on several occasions.
If you have a problem with that then you are just going to have a problem. Do you think you are infallible Patrick? I know that I am not.
And I would point out that Mr. Wilson issued a warning to you too, sir.
Finally, your refusal to respond to my question speaks for itself. You were wrong, again, and unwilling to own up to it...again.
Regards,
Jim
av84fun said:
First off, without any animosity, I would like to know the answer to this question. Not specifically to find out who is wrong, but, to see if I should continue to experiment with my assumptions on gripping. I would like to hear the reasoning behind this theory so as to make my own decisions.
JoeyA said:Just messin' with you Pat.
FTR, Keith McCready once told me that I had to learn when and where to place my back hand in different positions for different shots. Still working on that.
I think cue balls almost frozen on the rail sometimes demand a different back hand placement.
JoeyA
This kind of what am experimenting with. Certain shots dictate different positions/grips on the cue. Thanks for the confirmation on my thought process.
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Many of the old-time players used grips that were maybe "a hand ahead" of vertical for most shots. I remember being struck by Buddy Hall's grip which was much closer to a perpendicular forearm at impact than a lot of other players. Most of those "old-time" players developed playing straight pool which emphasizes softer shots and tighter control.klockdoc said:
When I see a student holding the cue where Crane and Sigel did, I can't tell them it's wrong, but I might suggest that they move back to orthodox perpendicularity for power or long shots.
The next time you are at a major tournament, notice the grip hands of the top players. This is not a fool-proof way to learn what can work, since some of them have very unorthodox styles, but see if it is common among the players who use a style close to your own. Some very strong players advocate the middle+ring finger grip.
In general, implementing little tweaks like this that seem to give an immediate improvement might just be canceling one error with another. I think that sometimes it's better to go back to the simplest possible mechanics and eliminate the complications and flourishes. Many very strong players use the full-hand grip.
The reasoning is that's when the direction of your stroke is parallel with your stick (when your tip is neither moving upward nor downward), and when it moves off that line the least over the greatest distance, so it's the optimum (most forgiving) time to strike the cue ball accurately.
Perpendicular to the stick is technically correct, although that's harder to "feel" than vertical and not really necessary most of the time. For players (like myself) who minimize butt elevation, vertical is close enough to perpendicular on most shots. Nitpicking the two serves drama at the expense of useful information.
pj
chgo
What's interesting about this thread, no one has really gone into the "grip" itself, just the position of the grip on the wrap or not and the location of it along the butt.
Is your actual GRIP correct?..that would be a major concern of mine.
Is your actual GRIP correct?..that would be a major concern of mine.
First off, Patrick. Thank you for your response to my question. See below for why I originally asked.
Bob, I think you are correct in me placing a bandaid on a problem I seem to have lately. The main reason for me experimenting with different methods is because I have a hard time getting right into the "box" and shooting well. Usually, it will take an hour before my game comes around. Little things like this get me concentrating more and then pretty soon, I slip away from the thinking process and the things just naturally happen.
Maybe I shouldn't attempt the correction in this fashion. Might be better to just have someone tell me what the problem is and work on it from that aspect. At least I will be concentrating my efforts on the specific problem.
I guess the problem is I never had to think about shooting before. Now it seems like I have to. I have always used the full grip without any problems. It just seemed strange that removing one finger could improve my shot making ability THAT much?
Bob Jewett said:
Bob, I think you are correct in me placing a bandaid on a problem I seem to have lately. The main reason for me experimenting with different methods is because I have a hard time getting right into the "box" and shooting well. Usually, it will take an hour before my game comes around. Little things like this get me concentrating more and then pretty soon, I slip away from the thinking process and the things just naturally happen.
Maybe I shouldn't attempt the correction in this fashion. Might be better to just have someone tell me what the problem is and work on it from that aspect. At least I will be concentrating my efforts on the specific problem.
I guess the problem is I never had to think about shooting before. Now it seems like I have to. I have always used the full grip without any problems. It just seemed strange that removing one finger could improve my shot making ability THAT much?
Island Drive said:
Even that is hard to determin what is "correct" there are SO MANY different grips..
Any of the books I have read I have looked specifically to see what they say is the proper grip.
They all say the same thing. "Grip to cue so that it is comforatable, Dont Squeeze too tight"
A couple have said to cradle it between the first finger and thumb. Yet Wen you relly look, some don't use the first finger at all. More and more that I see don't use the thumb.
It is hard to say what is the "correct" grip....(I guess the one that efren uses)
But you only have to think about it long enough to make the change and get comfortable with it (if that's what you're doing). It isn't a permanent condition.
It can make a big difference - it did for me. A lot of the benefit for me was that taking a finger or two off the cue (really just relaxing them) prevented me from tightening my grip as I finished my stroke, which was steering my tip slightly offline. A little bit of tip inaccuracy makes a big difference.
I made the change (to a looser grip) by exaggerating the difference at first: gripping with only my thumb and forefinger in a "pincer" grip that allowed the stick to pivot freely as my stroke went back and forth (picture a pin inserted sideways through the butt as the pivot). This made an immediate positive difference in the "finish" of my stroke, which is where most grip problems show up.
pj
chgo