Frost did and I believe it was $2700. Expenses were probably around $1000 I would guess so if you did not finish top 3 you did not make anything I am guessing.
Guaranteed Added Money & Your Feelings on It
- Thread starter Fast Lenny
- Start date
Frost did and I believe it was $2700. Expenses were probably around $1000 I would guess so if you did not finish top 3 you did not make anything I am guessing.
Actually this is not true and your wrong. Here is the threads advertising the tournament.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=209907
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=209512
And here is the quote stating that the $5,000 added was already done.
The stuff about the weather being the problem is strange because the airports and roads were okay from what I heard, top players from out of state made it there with no problem and on time. Sometimes things just do not come together.
and on&on&on&on..............Cowboy you haven't played in a tourney in the 7 years that I've known you.
Why don't you wring your hands over something you have first hand experience with instead of acting like the tourney police. Your a top of the line nit and your opinions are no more that farts in the wind. Momentarily unpleasant but quickly forgotten.
The forgoing was meant in the most constructive and friendly way.
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I stand corrected, heard mixed reports, some sad it was bad and some sad it was okay when you got South so hopefully the next event will be better along with the weather.
I stand corrected. Looks like DP dropped the ball on this one. I was looking at the flyer they did.
The post you quoted above from Putup was on Jan 4th. One month before he event. Seems like the question is, "what does signed up mean?", but (already done) seems pretty clear.
The event took many names but never got any credit cards.
Denis Strickland started the Houston Open and has a considerable amount of experience running tournaments. He has been out of circulation for some time and it showed on this event, imo.
Ray
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I think in this particular case it is fair.Because extreme weather made it difficult ot impossible for many of the players to show adding half the money for half the field is a good solution. We can all sit around and proclaim what should be guaranteed but then we will all be sitting at home rather then playing pool.
If you want to absolutely guarantee the added $$ then you must have the players send in the entries in advance unless of course the promoter who is puting up the funds is a sucker.Of course that is one solution to making pool profitable for all players....suckers for promoters!
If you want to absolutely guarantee the added $$ then you must have the players send in the entries in advance unless of course the promoter who is puting up the funds is a sucker.Of course that is one solution to making pool profitable for all players....suckers for promoters!
Doesn't guaranteed mean, no matter what?
If it's not guaranteed then they shouldn't say guaranteed.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Yeah, Putuporshutup botched the announcement. The Guarantee was with 32 players. When he finally did mention it on Jan 4th, he said they already had 32.
Ray
Ahhhh, I still say don't use the word guaranteed unless it's no matter what.
I hate small print advertising. Even worse are those speed reader guys at the end of an ad who tell you your nuts will probably fall off if you use this product but they say it so fast you can't hear it.
Koop - thankfully still has his nuts
doesn't guaranteed mean, no matter what?
If it's not guaranteed then they shouldn't say guaranteed.
Seems pretty simple to me.
bing bing!!!!
OK I can explain.
I am an example of someone you might consider taking with the left hand while giving with the right hand. But there is a rhyme and reason to it.
For our summer shootout coming up in June, we have an 8-ball tournament:
We advertise it as,
$2500 added
$60 entry (includes $10 green fee)
This means there is $50 from each entry in the prize fund and $2500 on top of that.
You might say that if I get 100 players, thus generating $1000 in green fees, am I not REALLY just adding $1500?
I say the answer is no. There is a subtlety here, and the subtlety stems from the PURPOSE of advertising added money.
The added money is a "players' insurance policy." There is always a risk that turnout is poor, whether it's because of lack of interest, weather, competing events, of any of a number of other reasons. Without added money, low turnout means paultry prize fund. A player that commits to a tournament without added money is assuming the risk that nobody will show up. Added money shifts that risk to the promoter, i.e., takes it away from the player.
So for our summer shootout, if ONE player shows up, We would use a two-player double elimination bracket with one bye ;-), and the payout to that one player would be $2550.
If 8 players show up, the payout is $400 + $2500 = $2900
If 128 players show up, the payout is $6400 + $2500 = $8900
In other words, the added money is a much more important part of the prize fund when the turnout is low.
By the way, we don't make money running our big tournaments. Our goal is to run great events while losing a palatable amount.
So no, the $10 green fee is not really feeding that $2500. That $2500 is always there, and the $50 per player is added to it.
AS owner of Jamaica Joe's in Midwest City, Oklahoma, I completely agree with mikepage's post. We as owners are taking a risk every time we guarantee money. That being said, I will say that anytime you see my tournaments or promotions, if it says $3000.00 Added guaranteed, you can bet the house that the $3000.00 is already in the pot whether we have 60 players or 6. I agree that it is bad business when a place advertises $2500.00 added and get a poor turnout they only add $500.00 or whatever amount they want to. Fortunately for the players, my reputation isn't for sale. This is one of the reasons my tournaments are so successful. Bill
In reply to both Mike and Bill,
Thanks so much for clarifying your stance on added money. I'm not trying to be a spoil sport. I've seen too many events happen with $xxxx guaranteed only to arrive and find; because there are only xx players, the added money really is $xxx not $xxxx or the sponsor backed out and we can only add $xxx. There is just to much bullshit out there. Just the fact you responded says lots about you, your room and the events you hold. Wish there were more rooms and owners like you around!
Lyn
Thanks so much for clarifying your stance on added money. I'm not trying to be a spoil sport. I've seen too many events happen with $xxxx guaranteed only to arrive and find; because there are only xx players, the added money really is $xxx not $xxxx or the sponsor backed out and we can only add $xxx. There is just to much bullshit out there. Just the fact you responded says lots about you, your room and the events you hold. Wish there were more rooms and owners like you around!
Lyn
Mike,
My question was primarily directed towards those promoters who hide the source of the added money behind a smoke screen. We (the pool community) need you, Bill and most every other room owner who invests in the future of your room and the game of pool. I'm not trying to tear anyone down. If you don't make money and you stop having events or even worse, closing your doors, what have we gained? Thanks for answering my question in a reasoned way! Hope to visit some day. One of the glorys of retirement!
Lyn
I also agree with Mike Page but...
In the case of extreme weather event like blizzards, tornadoes there are special considerations.What happens if only 1 person shows when a full field was expected,do you give all the added money to that one player?So you word it XX.XX added with XX number of players.
In the case of extreme weather event like blizzards, tornadoes there are special considerations.What happens if only 1 person shows when a full field was expected,do you give all the added money to that one player?So you word it XX.XX added with XX number of players.
It should go as advertised, period!!! If you advertise 'guarantee' in your prize money, no matter if two or two hundred show up, the advertised 'guaranteed' amount should be added. If you were reliant on the entry fees to bulk up the 'guarantee', then dont advertise 'guarantee'. Advertise 'the truth': _____ added based on ____ players. Then noone will be disappointed. People use this ploy to bait players just like commercials do. It's not a good look!! This is why you have all the negative discussion. Stop it!! Keep it real, son! 
PEACE
WUTANG
PEACE
WUTANG
It should go as advertised, period!!! If you advertise 'guarantee' in your prize money, no matter if two or two hundred show up, the advertised 'guaranteed' amount should be added. If you were reliant on the entry fees to bulk up the 'guarantee', then dont advertise 'guarantee'. Advertise 'the truth': _____ added based on ____ players. Then noone will be disappointed. People use this ploy to bait players just like commercials do. It's not a good look!! This is why you have all the negative discussion. Stop it!! Keep it real, son!
PEACE
WUTANG
I go a step further.
The word guaranteed is not needed.
"$1000 added"
MEANS "$1,000 guaranteed added."
Further, "$1,000 added (based on 64 players)"
is not enough information.
A person reading the flyer should know exactly how much will be in the prize fund for any number of entries. This language is incomplete.
1. The argument about having to win or place in the top 3 just to break even due to the reduced added money is a moot point. The reason its moot is because this is true of ANY tournament a player has to travel to via plane and obtain room accommodations.
2. The "guaranteed added" argument is not worth talking about. We all know what to expect when a promotor uses the word "guaranteed".... NOTHING. Even though there are one's like Mark who use it properly, the vast majority of the promoters use the word incorrectly. Therefore, whenever you see that word on a flyer, simply ignore it.
2. The "guaranteed added" argument is not worth talking about. We all know what to expect when a promotor uses the word "guaranteed".... NOTHING. Even though there are one's like Mark who use it properly, the vast majority of the promoters use the word incorrectly. Therefore, whenever you see that word on a flyer, simply ignore it.