Gus Szamboti

Szam

If you're paying a fee to have Barry authenticate the cue.. doesn't it then come with a letter of authentication if verified? I'd have to list that as a major selling point if it were my cue and I was selling it.
 
cyrex said:
If you're paying a fee to have Barry authenticate the cue.. doesn't it then come with a letter of authentication if verified? I'd have to list that as a major selling point if it were my cue and I was selling it.
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I might be wrong, but I've heard that Barry Szamboti will verify a cue but does not generate any letters of authenticity to go with them.
 
I wish ebay can have some kinda of policy that any ebayer without feedback cannot list item value over $5 :rolleyes:
 
Sorry i was just being the smart aleck...

i just thought that the cue looks every inch a Palmer Model J, and the blank looks like its a Burton Blank not a Szamboti blank. But i wouldnt know that much about a Palmer or a Szamboti to know if Gus really did a Palmer J copy.
The resident palmer expert would be able to answer that question..

The letter would be helpful as u said, but in the 80s people are that into collecting cues and wouldnt have thought of getting a letter..

Well he mentioned that someone who drank a bit too much sold him the cue.. i just thought he was the one that drank a bit too much on that day..

Bgrds
Raist
 
Hmm...

Wonder where this guy lives. I'd be willing to drink too much and sell him all the Szambotis he wanted. Pay no attention to the Dufferin logos on them.. Szamboti did that to make them look like REAL sneaky petes. And don't bother checking with Barry.. I already had them authenticated and he definitely said they are the real deal. ;)
 
My guess is a Palmer with a Gus forearm, possibly a Spain. I guess if Gus did make the forearm the seller figgured he'd just make Gus the cue maker.

Rod
 
Rod said:
My guess is a Palmer with a Gus forearm, possibly a Spain. I guess if Gus did make the forearm the seller figgured he'd just make Gus the cue maker.

Rod
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Oh my God, how am I ever going to tell what a cue stick is ! ! ? ? The stick looks like a Palmer model J to me. especially the top 90% of the bottom half.....................sighs.......

If you put a Szamboti bumper on a Palmer, then the stick is a Szamboti ??? oh well. I'll let the experts tell us what it is :)
 
cyrex said:
If you're paying a fee to have Barry authenticate the cue.. doesn't it then come with a letter of authentication if verified? I'd have to list that as a major selling point if it were my cue and I was selling it.
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Barry really doesn't formally authenticate cues (that I know of). He just tells you what he thinks.

This cue is a Palmer J with the window replaced, at the shop or otherwise. Replacing the window is a simple thing, just a band of ebony instead of the acrylic tube.

Palmer built many of the J forearms themselves starting in 1968, before Gus was making cues, and later in the game, Gus built them (so did Barry working for Gus) to Palmer's specs. If Barry says the Szamboti's built this forearm, then I would believe it. He can recognize the work.

http://www.palmercollector.com/ModelJ.html

My experience is that the Szamboti built Palmer's have longer points (about 1/2") than the shop built, and the points tended to be more uniform.

Palmer built most of their own forearms on this moel and others (or converted existing cues) until the early 1970's, then they bought whatever they could after that.

Chris
 
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ironchef. said:
I might be wrong, but I've heard that Barry Szamboti will verify a cue but does not generate any letters of authenticity to go with them.
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You are right. He will e-mail about it and prefers to actually call. If he says "yes, that looks like my dad's cue" - that's about the maximum you'll get. His waitlist for a refinish is about 18 months.

Chris
 
I informed the seller of the mistake and sent him a link to my Model J page. He was very appreciative and said he would revise the listing this evening. Sounded like an honest mistake.

Chris
 
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Yup, I got the same response.....

Thank you very much for the information. I did a lot of research before I posted the item. Could never find an exact match, and now I know why. Several people have responded, and due to the wonders of e-Bay I now know that it is a Palmer Model J with Szamboti points on the forearm (a beautiful cue). I will revise the listing by the end of the day and notify all who have submitted input.

I'm curious about the Szamboti points though...
 
1pRoscoe said:
Yup, I got the same response.....

Thank you very much for the information. I did a lot of research before I posted the item. Could never find an exact match, and now I know why. Several people have responded, and due to the wonders of e-Bay I now know that it is a Palmer Model J with Szamboti points on the forearm (a beautiful cue). I will revise the listing by the end of the day and notify all who have submitted input.

I'm curious about the Szamboti points though...
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Gus made a lot of the reverse ebony forearms. Barry did too when he was a kid working for Gus. Gus clearly was influenced in the early years by the specs Palmer had given him to build their forearms.

The seller had said before that Barry refinished the cue and recognized the forearm as a Szamboti. All I can say is it''s very tough to tell who made what on these cues. up until about 1971, most were made in the Palmer shop. Then they bought whatever they could, and Gus was a great supplier to Palmer.

I have one "J" with Szamboti points for sure (I have history on it, it was special ordered by a friend of Peter Balner's and Peter told him he was getting the blank from Gus). The points come to 3" or less from the joint collar and they are about 1/2" longer than the typical Palmer points. They also tend to be more even, inside and outside.

Here's a pic, you can clearly see the longer version this way:

Model_J_Forearms.jpg
 
Got this little hint about Gus points on Palmers from the pool table magic site

(tidbit: One thing to note is Szamboti points NEVER come together at the base. The outside black veneer always maintains about 1/32-1/16 spacing depending on how much they are turned down. If your inner veneers meet, its not a Szamboti forearm)

http://www.pooltablemagic.net/cues/palmer_paradise_tribute_3.htm
 
Jeff said:
(tidbit: One thing to note is Szamboti points NEVER come together at the base. The outside black veneer always maintains about 1/32-1/16 spacing depending on how much they are turned down. If your inner veneers meet, its not a Szamboti forearm)
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And neither do Barry's.

Barbara
 
Jeff said:
Got this little hint about Gus points on Palmers from the pool table magic site

(tidbit: One thing to note is Szamboti points NEVER come together at the base. The outside black veneer always maintains about 1/32-1/16 spacing depending on how much they are turned down. If your inner veneers meet, its not a Szamboti forearm)

http://www.pooltablemagic.net/cues/palmer_paradise_tribute_3.htm
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Many cues have been erroneously identified as "Szamboti Forearms". Fact is, it's very difficult for even experts to determine who made what. Because of the techniques used, the above is very true. However, most of the cues built this way used Palmer built forearms. Very few were built on Spain blanks because they had some delivery problems from him. Many were built on ADAM Japan blanks. If the veneers come together, it's almost certain to be a Titlist conversion or Titlist blank built cue, or a later Adam forearm built for Palmer.

To show by example, here is some research I did on the subject - I've not published this before:

http://www.palmercollector.com/forearms.html

Chris
 
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