Hal Houle, not an aiming thread

[Andrew Manning]

But his system was pretty bogus.

It's a funny thing, our game. The contact point between CB and OB is invisible at the moment of truth (it's sandwiched between 2 balls), and our eyes are not calibrated to judge the millimeter differences required to change a cut angle a few degrees left or right, anyway. Players, even excellent ones, don't really know where they hit the OB; only whether or not it went where they wanted.

It's a funny game where the judgment of aim can be performed in a precise and systematic manner, with systems varying from suspiciously simple to hideously complex, but then the actual delivery of the CB to that line of aim is a feat performed by the subconscious nervous system in a way that makes it dubiously relevant how the "aiming" part of the process was performed.

It's a funny game where geometry and physics decide the results, but factually incorrect geometry and physics can still guide a player (even at the pro level) to achieve their desired results.

 

[TATE]

It's a funny thing, our game. The contact point between CB and OB is invisible at the moment of truth (it's sandwiched between 2 balls), and our eyes are not calibrated to judge the millimeter differences required to change a cut angle a few degrees left or right, anyway. Players, even excellent ones, don't really know where they hit the OB; only whether or not it went where they wanted.

It's a funny game where the judgment of aim can be performed in a precise and systematic manner, with systems varying from suspiciously simple to hideously complex, but then the actual delivery of the CB to that line of aim is a feat performed by the subconscious nervous system in a way that makes it dubiously relevant how the "aiming" part of the process was performed.

It's a funny game where geometry and physics decide the results, but factually incorrect geometry and physics can still guide a player (even at the pro level) to achieve their desired results.

Working with C players, I have seen for myself that some people just can't visualize the shot. Their brain is not wired to shoot the cueball out into the thin air. Although I don't teach it, I can see where an aiming system can help them. The better players, you, Lou and others, don't need help pocketing balls. You've hit a million balls, see the shot and execute. When you miss, you know exactly why you missed. Some people just haven't developed that ability and maybe can't.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The contact point between CB and OB is invisible at the moment of truth (it's sandwiched between 2 balls), and our eyes are not calibrated to judge the millimeter differences required to change a cut angle a few degrees left or right, anyway.

Our eyes must be "calibrated" to judge those small differences some way (CB/OB overlaps?) - otherwise our subconscious couldn't make those adjustments...

pj
chgo

 

[BC21]

It's a funny thing, our game. The contact point between CB and OB is invisible at the moment of truth (it's sandwiched between 2 balls), and our eyes are not calibrated to judge the millimeter differences required to change a cut angle a few degrees left or right, anyway. Players, even excellent ones, don't really know where they hit the OB; only whether or not it went where they wanted.

It's a funny game where the judgment of aim can be performed in a precise and systematic manner, with systems varying from suspiciously simple to hideously complex, but then the actual delivery of the CB to that line of aim is a feat performed by the subconscious nervous system in a way that makes it dubiously relevant how the "aiming" part of the process was performed.

It's a funny game where geometry and physics decide the results, but factually incorrect geometry and physics can still guide a player (even at the pro level) to achieve their desired results.

Excellent post.:thumbup:

The mind is a beautiful and complex thing, always trying to make sense out of stuff that doesn't make sense, always programming and reprogramming itself through experience until eventually it knows how how to make these things work.

On the surface we like to believe that we are consciously making these things happen, like the tennis player returning a 120mph serve with perfect precision. There is no way to consciously get your body where it needs to be, with the racquet at the perfect angle and perfect trajectory toward the ball, in such a short timeframe. This all happens automatically, subconsciously, because the brain has been programmed through experience to make it happen in response to certain input cues we provide.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Our eyes must be "calibrated" to judge those small differences some way (CB/OB overlaps?) - otherwise our subconscious couldn't make those adjustments...

pj
chgo

Our eyes see the whole "sight picture" to borrow a term from firearm aiming, and that plus the results of the shot (CB and OB direction after contact) is enough for our subconscious to fine-tune its aiming. But unless your eyes are waaaayyy better than mine, you're only assuming you hit your intended contact point when the OB goes in the center of the pocket. You may be aiming at the "wrong" spot and actually hitting the right one, without consciously knowing it. I think that's something Hal Houle trained himself and others to do very effectively.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Excellent post.:thumbup:

The mind is a beautiful and complex thing, always trying to make sense out of stuff that doesn't make sense, always programming and reprogramming itself through experience until eventually it knows how how to make these things work.

On the surface we like to believe that we are consciously making these things happen, like the tennis player returning a 120mph serve with perfect precision. There is no way to consciously get your body where it needs to be, with the racquet at the perfect angle and perfect trajectory toward the ball, in such a short timeframe. This all happens automatically, subconsciously, because the brain has been programmed through experience to make it happen in response to certain input cues we provide.

Yes, exactly. And if giving yourself a conscious cue like "start the swing as the ball crosses the plane of the net" helps you return that 120mph serve, then by all means tell yourself that, and kudos to the coach who knew that cue would help you with your timing, but don't kid yourself that it means you're really starting the swing at that exact moment. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't; in either case it's a good conscious cue if and only if it helps you get that ball returned more consistently.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...unless your eyes are waaaayyy better than mine, you're only assuming you hit your intended contact point when the OB goes in the center of the pocket.

Still, our eyes must see such tiny differences somehow or our subconscious wouldn't know how to fine tune our aim.

You may be aiming at the "wrong" spot and actually hitting the right one, without consciously knowing it. I think that's something Hal Houle trained himself and others to do very effectively.

I think that's something every successful pool player trains himself to do.

pj
chgo

 

[grindz]

Yes, exactly. And if giving yourself a conscious cue like "start the swing as the ball crosses the plane of the net" helps you return that 120mph serve, then by all means tell yourself that, and kudos to the coach who knew that cue would help you with your timing, but don't kid yourself that it means you're really starting the swing at that exact moment. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't; in either case it's a good conscious cue if and only if it helps you get that ball returned more consistently.

I know you're just making an analogy here...… but I'm pretty sure that saying any word,
would keep you from returning a 120 mph serve. :wink:

td

 

[ShootingArts]

missed your reply!

Ya know, Hu....I’ve had some serious thoughts about aiming.....for years on AZ.....
...but I’ve never known where to post them...’cause those threads turn into a war zone.

Maybe I should try an AZ blog.
I’ve heard some useful things on the subject.....but unrealistic handling of it...
...some make what could be a useful tool their master...like a carpenter worshiping their
hammer.
...my life might be easier if I just shut up.

Somehow I missed your reply so you can consider this a month between flash and bang! Life would certainly be more peaceful if we sat in a corner and shut up but where would be the fun in that?

In all seriousness, if you have something to say, I think you should say it somewhere. You are a sharp guy and a lot of people would like to hear what you have to say.

I started playing pool without a mentor. It was in a big dark cavern of a place that had once been jumping. A former steak house, former honky-tonk, former pool hall with the grand old ten footers. Now there were a few hardcore drunks at the bar and I would turn the light on over a table and hit balls. The rest of the place was darker than a well digger's butt! If there were any obstacles I would have needed a flashlight to get around. All of the restaurant tables and chairs were piled very high in a back corner though and the rest of the place was just rows and rows of pool tables and that bar up front.

I had no idea how you were supposed to aim a shot, not ghostball or any of the more conventional means so I worked out my own. The equal and opposite system works like a bandit if you can visualize what you need to. I spent months building the backside of a cue ball in my mind. Side to side was easy, that curvature and different depth of the other half of the circle, fleshing that out was what took months. After that, I hit balls and push them in the hole, it is as simple as that. I hit the point opposite where I want the ball to go.

It is hilarious to watch me try even fractional aiming, I look like a blind man trying to poke a cork in a cat's butt! I can miss the easiest shots by diamonds. For a few minutes I almost understood CTE and how it could work but then I didn't have a table handy to work with it and the understanding disappeared. We don't have to go past Landon Shuffett to be reminded that CTE works though, at least Stan's version of it.

Life goes on. Put what ya got out there! You can always post a link to your own private blog and block anyone that disagrees with you and say snarky things about them like some do!:grin-square:

Hu

 

[Andrew Manning]

I know you're just making an analogy here...… but I'm pretty sure that saying any word,
would keep you from returning a 120 mph serve. :wink:

td

You won't have time to say it out loud, that's for sure. But that sort of conscious cue can be remembered before the serve and held in the mind during it, without taking time to mentally enunciate it after the ball is hit.