Hal Houle

[BigDogatLarge]

I feel ya Dwight. These two threads are getting very counter-productive as they usually do because they are not describing the system accurately.

Regards,
Jim

I just look at the ball I want to make and think connect the dots. One dot is the pocket and the other dot is a place on the object ball. Then I keep my eye on the dot and walk to the shot and look at it and shoot and it goes in. Why are they making all this fuss about cuts and all. If you get good shape you don't need all this ummm... information.

Dwight

 

[av84fun]

I just look at the ball I want to make and think connect the dots. One dot is the pocket and the other dot is a place on the object ball. Then I keep my eye on the dot and walk to the shot and look at it and shoot and it goes in. Why are they making all this fuss about cuts and all. If you get good shape you don't need all this ummm... information.

Dwight

Yes, as I mentioned in another post, the best players are shape players not shot makers.

However, sometimes there is no route to idea shape and sometimes we run long or short of ideal shape so advanced aiming techinques can often make the difference.

Some players are very skilled at aiming at contact points BUT..they are very small and many players simply don't have the visualization skills to A) see the correct contact point and B) KEEP it there as they "walk to the shot, bend down into the shot and cycle their focus back and forth from CB to OB.

If that works for you...very cool! But all the "fuss" you refer to stems from the fact that not everyone can hold the fictitious spot in their mind's eye and not every one thinks they can actually can.

I would imagine that you miss a shot now and then! (-:

Regards,
Jim

 

[softshot]

Aiming is FAR FAR FAR!!!! to easy for any decent pool player to ever get wrong... ever....


the devil is in the details.. you could have a "foolproof" aiming system.. and if you are unable to execute the shot... then the aiming is useless..

if you don't know how to "see" the correct line and you have been playing for over a year...

find a different game....

 

[av84fun]

Aiming is FAR FAR FAR!!!! to easy for any decent pool player to ever get wrong... ever....


the devil is in the details.. you could have a "foolproof" aiming system.. and if you are unable to execute the shot... then the aiming is useless..

if you don't know how to "see" the correct line and you have been playing for over a year...

find a different game....

That's about the funniest post I've seen in a long time. I know you meant well but the above implies you rarely miss shots. Is that correct?

(-:

 

[softshot]

That's about the funniest post I've seen in a long time. I know you meant well but the above implies you rarely miss shots. Is that correct?

(-:

I miss all the time.... but my aim isn't the problem... its the execution..that I and the rest of us have trouble with sometimes.

 

[softshot]

when Efren or Allison miss... is it because they forgot how to aim???

 

[av84fun]

when Efren or Allison miss... is it because they forgot how to aim???

No. It is generally due to a stoking error causing a misapplication of english (too much or too little) resulting in sqwerve and more or less SIT than they intended.

They are human beings and cannot and do not execute their strokes perfectly every time. Neither does Tiger who plays (and wins) entire tournaments in spite of missing fairways all day.

Regards,
Jim

 

[softshot]

No. It is generally due to a stoking error causing a misapplication of english (too much or too little) resulting in sqwerve and more or less SIT than they intended.

They are human beings and cannot and do not execute their strokes perfectly every time. Neither does Tiger who plays (and wins) entire tournaments in spite of missing fairways all day.

Regards,
Jim

they are just like the rest of us....they just make errors less often.

Aiming systems are not a holy grail... they are just a waste of time.

you won't sink more balls by changing your aim.. you WILL sink more balls by mastering your execution..

Aiming is too simple for anyone to get wrong.... ever...

 

[Colin Colenso]

Aiming v Execution

I think it is a common misunderstanding to think that the cause of error lies moreso on in the stroke than the aim.

In snooker especially, where potting requires greater accuracy I am convinced that 80%+ off misses are due to aiming errors. Many of these are long shots using little english.

I've done some testing using a fixed rest and replacing CB and OB on the exact same points of a longish shot on a 9-ball table. Without even looking at the OB, I could make the shot over and over. The execution was easy, despite feeling quite uncomfortable leaning over a fixed rest.

On some shots, such as those with swerve, where speed becomes an issue, execution is more difficult. On most shots however, if you know how to set your aim for the required shot, the execution is quite easy.

Many times players think they pulled a shot to cause a miss, but that pull often comes into the stroke intuitively to try to correct the original incorrect aim. This creates a feeling of discomfort, which they often interpret as poor execution.

Most people just assume they are aligned correctly because they are looking at the OB, but they often aren't. Even pro pool players, whose potting accuracy is significantly lower than the top snooker pros.

Colin

 

[softshot]

anyone capable of finding the contact point.. is capable of finding the line from the cueball to that contact point. The aiming portion of the exercise is now complete.

making the cueball follow that path however. requires good mechanics and a solid stroke..

just seeing the line isn't enough to improve your game

 

[Colin Colenso]

anyone capable of finding the contact point.. is capable of finding the line from the cueball to that contact point. The aiming portion of the exercise is now complete.

making the cueball follow that path however. requires good mechanics and a solid stroke..

just seeing the line isn't enough to improve your game

1. Hitting the contact point, if that is the line-through-centers, will still result in misses due to variations in throw.

2. It's one thing to perceive a contact point, it's quite another to make a rounded surface, somewhere to the side of the CB, connect quite precisely with that point.

I think aiming is THE key challenge in billiard games that require pocketing. Learn to aim right, for the various angles, spins, speeds and swerves and the rest will be relatively easy to get up to scratch.

Colin

 

[softshot]

1. Hitting the contact point, if that is the line-through-centers, will still result in misses due to variations in throw.

2. It's one thing to perceive a contact point, it's quite another to make a rounded surface, somewhere to the side of the CB, connect quite precisely with that point.

I think aiming is THE key challenge in billiard games that require pocketing. Learn to aim right, for the various angles, spins, speeds and swerves and the rest will be relatively easy to get up to scratch.

Colin

we will just have to disagree then.

I think more players get bogged down with this esoteric reinventing of the wheel..

no system can tell me how much I need to compensate for my low left English.. the only person who can teach me that compensation is me..
and it has nothing to do with how I aim my shot.. its all about muscle memory and repetition..

I don't have bad days because my aim is off..
I have bad days because my stroke is off..
how do I know this?... because I aim the same way every time...

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Do you really mean the center of the OB? I thought it was only the edge he teaches?



Is this anything like what you're describing? Thanks.

CueTable Help

CORRECT---- EXCEPT those lines to the opposite OB edge!!!!

I meant center of the CB, not OB.... I was tired when I wrote that. YES, when each of your lines is equal to the other, I plant my right foot and slide into the shot. Sliding rather than placing your bridge is super critical to ensure your placement is exact. If you're not perfect, obviously, the system isn't perfect.... that's where people get messed up.

P.S. I think I understand the system REALLY well and in all phases. The triangle sighting method is my own, and it helps me lock on that center-to-edge line much better. This system basically changed my pool life. JoeyA said it best... it's learned in phases. The final phase is essentially pivoting while you're standing over the shot and sliding onto the line (nearly invisible to on-lookers). Phases 1 and 2 in the learning process include actual cue pivots while you're in your stance. I recommend if someone wants to really learn the system, go talk to Stan as Av8 mentioned earlier. He and I started within a week of each other last year but he's a teacher, not me. He comes up with really cool "check points" that assist through your progression. If you want to learn it, learn it right.... not on a message board.

 

[Colin Colenso]

we will just have to disagree then.

I think more players get bogged down with this esoteric reinventing of the wheel..

no system can tell me how much I need to compensate for my low left English.. the only person who can teach me that compensation is me..
and it has nothing to do with how I aim my shot.. its all about muscle memory and repetition..

I don't have bad days because my aim is off..
I have bad days because my stroke is off..
how do I know this?... because I aim the same way every time...

Cool, I'm just putting my opinion out as contrast.

As for low left, and other combinations, I have the throw charts for various speeds, with systems that address adjustments for length between CB and OB.

An example of these throw charts and how they work is in this thread: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=105756

Here is a sample chart for 1/8 Ball slow speed cut to the left.

With this information, you can predict the required contact point to accuracies within a pocket width over 8 feet, which compares favorably with the fact that a single contact point can result in a variability of over 6 inches either side of a pocket from 8 feet.

I'll be making all that throw and adjustment information available in coming months as it is all tested and the graphics and video is being put together. That may offer a decent alternative to learning each shot, one at a time, which has pretty much been the way everyone has had to do it up to now.

Colin

 

[softshot]

Cool, I'm just putting my opinion out as contrast.

As for low left, and other combinations, I have the throw charts for various speeds, with systems that address adjustments for length between CB and OB.

An example of these throw charts and how they work is in this thread: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=105756

Here is a sample chart for 1/8 Ball slow speed cut to the left.

I'll be making all that throw and adjustment information available in coming months as it is all tested and the graphics and video is being put together. That may offer a decent alternative to learning each shot, one at a time, which has pretty much been the way everyone has had to do it up to now.

Colin

will these charts also include adjustments for each degree of wear of every brand of felt?

I do appreciate the work you are doing and I find it interesting information..

but to think that you can have an aiming system that takes into account every single variable on every single pool table with every kind of felt and struck with every kind of cue by every type of player.

that is simply an impossible goal.

at the end of the day its the player who must put time and effort into becoming good at this... or they won't ever be good at this.

any aiming system will work if you hit a million balls using it.. and no system will work if you don't.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Or A New Cue Or Shaft Or Tight Shoes......Or Sumpin

I think it is a common misunderstanding to think that the cause of error lies moreso on in the stroke than the aim.
Colin

If you drink, you can always blame the booze.
Or, poor health or age.

Doug
(I've even heard some shot missing whiners blame their 'back')

*One well known Pro blames the HUMIDITY.

 

[Colin Colenso]

will these charts also include adjustments for each degree of wear of every brand of felt?

I do appreciate the work you are doing and I find it interesting information..

but to think that you can have an aiming system that takes into account every single variable on every single pool table with every kind of felt and struck with every kind of cue by every type of player.

that is simply an impossible goal.

at the end of the day its the player who must put time and effort into becoming good at this... or they won't ever be good at this.

any aiming system will work if you hit a million balls using it.. and no system will work if you don't.

It will have some general compensations for different table conditions. These actually affect the effective pivot point, using BHE, on longer CB-OB separations mainly.

There's no doubt the system will require considerable work to reach its potential for players, but I think it offers considerable advantages in some areas.

I will mention that it uses as its basis, or the basic aim, the contact point required to pocket a ball using slow-medium speed natural roll. By becoming highly proficient at aiming for this shot, using whatever aiming method you want to get there, adjustments are made for the various spins and speeds.

It's a bit complex to explain it all in one go now of course.

Colin

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

we will just have to disagree then.

I think more players get bogged down with this esoteric reinventing of the wheel..

no system can tell me how much I need to compensate for my low left English.. the only person who can teach me that compensation is me..
and it has nothing to do with how I aim my shot.. its all about muscle memory and repetition..

I don't have bad days because my aim is off..
I have bad days because my stroke is off..
how do I know this?... because I aim the same way every time...

If it were easy, EVERYBODY could do it and pool would be a boring game......ah, sport. Undertaking (whatever) imo

Doug

 

[SpiderWebComm]

anyone capable of finding the contact point.. is capable of finding the line from the cueball to that contact point. The aiming portion of the exercise is now complete.

making the cueball follow that path however. requires good mechanics and a solid stroke..

just seeing the line isn't enough to improve your game

You can't find the contact point, although you can estimate where it is pretty closely. It's about the size of a sharpened pencil tip (let's just say it's really small). You can find the visual edge of the OB. You don't find a line from the CB to the contact point-- you'd undercut every shot. The problem with that method is you're dealing with depth perception since the OB is round. What makes Hal's system "strong" is that it removes depth perception from aiming--- and eliminates the need to "see" a contact point.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

anyone capable of finding the contact point.. is capable of finding the line from the cueball to that contact point. The aiming portion of the exercise is now complete.

This is oversimplified. There are two contact points, not one, and one of them is hidden from view (on the other side of the cue ball). And even if you could see both contact points it's not simplistic to line them up perfectly (largely because of the position of your eyes over that line rather than behind it). A third problem is that even the one you can see (the OB contact point) must be found by estimation - even when using an aiming system. These different factors are present in every shot and add up to much less certainty than you give credit for.

I agree with Colin that many shots are missed because of misalignment (bad aim), even by very experienced players. That doesn't mean that stroke errors aren't also a big factor - they're just not the overwhelming factor that some think they are.

pj
chgo