Hal Houle

Blackjack said:
What do you stand to lose?

Hal has called me a coupla times and emailed me several times asking me to discuss pool with him. I've never taken the time to do that because I've never seen anything that makes me want to, either from Hal or his students.

If Hal had anything to say that I'd want to spend an hour of my time listening to I'd have heard at least one useful thing from him or one of his students in all the years I've been listening. I never have. Not once. And I wouldn't have heard so much nonsense from his students, but I have. Lots. In fact, what his students have to say is either nonsense or nothing. There's never anything else. Never.

Maybe these signals don't register on you, but they do on me - loud and clear.

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Hal has called me a coupla times and emailed me several times asking me to discuss pool with him. I've never taken the time to do that because I've never seen anything that makes me want to, either from Hal or his students.

If Hal had anything to say that I'd want to spend an hour of my time listening to I'd have heard at least one useful thing from him or one of his students in all the years I've been listening. I never have. Not once. And I wouldn't have heard so much nonsense from his students, but I have. Lots. In fact, what his students have to say is either nonsense or nothing. There's never anything else. Never.

Maybe these signals don't register on you, but they do on me - loud and clear.

pj
chgo

Ah, what are you trying to say ?
Doug

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Smorgass Bored said:
Ah, what are you trying to say ?
Doug

.

SB,
As best I can tell, he's saying that if you like bacon; then you are an apostle of bacon. Now that's something I could get behind (hard to explain, but I know what I like...anyone too lazy to try it themselves just leaves more bacon for me).
 
Williebetmore said:
SB,
As best I can tell, he's saying that if you like bacon; then you are an apostle of bacon. Now that's something I could get behind (hard to explain, but I know what I like...anyone too lazy to try it themselves just leaves more bacon for me).


BACON !
Now, you're talkin turkey.
Doug
( thanks for splainin it )


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Patrick Johnson said:
Hal has called me a coupla times and emailed me several times asking me to discuss pool with him. I've never taken the time to do that because I've never seen anything that makes me want to, either from Hal or his students.

If Hal had anything to say that I'd want to spend an hour of my time listening to I'd have heard at least one useful thing from him or one of his students in all the years I've been listening. I never have. Not once. And I wouldn't have heard so much nonsense from his students, but I have. Lots. In fact, what his students have to say is either nonsense or nothing. There's never anything else. Never.

Maybe these signals don't register on you, but they do on me - loud and clear.

pj
chgo

I was taught a lot of things when I was coming up as a player.

The first thing I was taught was that an open mind is a black hole for knowledge. When the mind is open, the student can learn much.

The second I was taught was that a closed mind was a brick wall for knowledge. If the mind is closed the student will learn nothing.

The third thing I was taught was that the only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. With that, I'll shut up.
 
Blackjack said:
I was taught a lot of things when I was coming up as a player.

The first thing I was taught was that an open mind is a black hole for knowledge. When the mind is open, the student can learn much.

The second I was taught was that a closed mind was a brick wall for knowledge. If the mind is closed the student will learn nothing.

The third thing I was taught was that the only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. With that, I'll shut up.
From what I've read, Pat is anything but closed minded. Despite having a distaste for the mathematical aspects of the physics of the game, he understands it very well. It seems that everyone who does understand basic geometry, with maybe a few exceptions, finds the descriptions of Hal's methods to be sorely wanting. If someone would supply one good example which is both unique and doesn't violate Euclid and Newton, then I'm sure Pat would acknowledge it, or at least not disparage it.

With the umpteen systems it is claimed he has invented, you would think that he or his followers would be willing to cough up just one to show that there is something there worth knowing.

Jim
 
Jal said:
...If someone would supply one good example which is both unique and doesn't violate Euclid and Newton, then I'm sure Pat would acknowledge it, or at least not disparage it.
Euclid or Newton would be fine, but just be sure the aiming system stays away from quantum mechanics because Pat wouldn't want any part of it. ;) (inside joke)

But Jal, you're right that the descriptions of some of Hal's systems (as I've read on this forum) seem to defy the fundamentals of geometry. But geometry and math aside, I certainly won't question that there have been many people out there who have benefited from Hal's systems. They might not be 100% geometrically accurate, but it's hard to question sincere testimonial results, and that alone makes me want to learn more about his systems.

How bout this. Since I don't know Hal personally (nor do I know anyone personally on this forum), I can be considered an objective critic of his aiming systems. Someone in the know can PM me the details of one of his aiming systems (with Hal's permission, if he requires it), and I'll give an objective review of it after I try it for a few days. :)

EDIT: One more thing. I don't want to call him up and talk to him personally, because from what I've read he's a real pleasure to talk to. Over the phone, I might fall prey to his siren-like charm which would make me skew the review towards his side, thus losing all objectivity...lol.
 
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Jal said:
It seems that everyone who does understand basic geometry, with maybe a few exceptions, finds the descriptions of Hal's methods to be sorely wanting.

With the umpteen systems it is claimed he has invented, you would think that he or his followers would be willing to cough up just one to show that there is something there worth knowing.

Jim

JAL,
Perhaps you are looking for a mathematics instructor rather than a pool instructor.

If you want something mathematically pure; I'm not really sure any aiming system will satisfy you. Once you find that perfect spot on the object ball, you still have to hit it. Your mind and body must perform so that whitey goes to the right place. If a system gives you a close enough approximation to that contact point, allowing success on most shots; then that system over time will give you enough good feedback to play pool well.

In my case, I have trouble seeing the teeny-tiny little contact point on the object ball (I have a form of color-blindness). Hal's system allows me to approximate the correct line as long as I can see the center of the cue ball and the edge of the object ball.

Will it work for every shot? I don't know, Hal thinks so, I'm ambivalent.

Is it mathematically sound? Who could possibly care?....there is NO TRICK to finding the proper contact point, the ghost ball system will easily find you the perfect contact point (though you need to adjust for throw); but damn, it takes a lot of visualization to set up perfectly and make perfect contact on difficult and longer shots. AN APPROXIMATION IS ALL ANY OF US HAS ON ANY SHOT IN POOL; it's up to us to refine the approximations to develop consistency (assuming everyone has a perfect stroke like mine:) ).

In summary, NO ONE really needs much help figuring out where to hit the object ball, even beginners can figure it out quickly with a little help. We need help hitting that spot; something Hal's system helps a lot of people do.

When I used Hal's system and compared it's results on every stroke to the contact point given by the "Spider" laser ghostball aiming thingy...it was the same almost every time...it helps you send the cue ball to the proper contact point on most shots. That gives us the feedback necessary to develop consistency; with MUCH less agonizing over setup and aiming; but does not insure that every ball will go (though Hal might disagree:) ).

Successful pocketing over time will give the student enough hand-eye feedback to develop confidence; and that's what it's all about in my opinion. Ease in setup and pocketing allows the player to spend more time concentrating on strategy and position; both valuable goals.

As for "coughing up" some info for others; the reason is common courtesy as explained before, not some mystical cult ruling.

P.S. - Having said all of that, I would love for a mathematician to have at this system to see what the limits are; because the approximation seems right on for the majority of shots - it would be great to see if there are limits for radical cut shots or shots with the object ball close to the cue ball (shots on which my use of the system seems to be less successful than others).

P.P.S. - I am also aware of your expertise (and that of Bob J.) in the physics area, and would defer to it.....fortunately the physics principles (inviolable as they are) also only help us understand the game and continue on our quest to pocket balls; they do not assure success.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
The problem I have with PJ is his belittling cockiness, acting "matter of fact" on these subjects without knowing anything about them. I'm guessing you don't know the details of Hal's system either since you mentioned you "didn't get it" -- which is strange because it might be the simplest thing in pool (and you make videos, right?).

My problem with you is you defended him - which means you're cool with that behavior. I used innuendos and hearsay to call him out because he talks like he's a world champion when it comes to aiming and he's not.

Anyone who knows me on this board will back me up when I say that was the first time I actually lost it. Hal's bed-ridden and has forgotten more about pool than both of you duct-taped-together. Reading about you guys blasting him pushes that red button inside of me.

I'm not discussing the system. You'd prob make a DVD out of it or something and it'd make me puke on my keyboard. Don't bash systems you know nothing about.

I spoke my peace, and it's dropped as far as I'm concerned.


Well, first off, I've spoken to Hal (he called me) and, over the years, I've participated in many discussions about his systems. (There's more out there about them than you seem to be aware of.) His systems just don't make sense -- so there's no DVD in it, except maybe a Discovery Channel type show on mysticism and pool.

And, if you have any kinda problem with me, well, that's your problem, now isn't it :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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Williebetmore said:
LF,
Not to muddy the waters, but I will definitely disagree with you here in a limited fashion. I was shown one and only one system by Hal...different than the stuff posted in this thread. It makes perfect sense on every level, and there are no geometrical inconsistencies that I could find (that WOULD drive me crazy). I would not use a system that did not make geometrical sense.

While we are probably discussing different versions, it is not accurate for you to imply that all of his systems "make no sense." That would imply that you know all of his systems.

No secrecy or mysticism about it, Hal seems quite willing to share with anyone who isn't an obvious a-hole. I would not attempt to post my understanding of his system because he asked me not to, and in addition my understanding of it may well be imperfect.


Willbetmore, I will take what you say at face value.

So, what is the one Hal system you learned that makes perfect sense? If you feel you can't post it, then feel free to PM or email me.

Lou Figueroa
this bait on my breath
is getting old
 
Mark Griffin said:
I have not had the time (or energy) to read this whole post. I did see where it has gotten "a little off track" as it seems so many of the posts about Hal over the years have.

I had the benefit of seeing Hal in California about 3 years ago. I am not a pool shooting guru or anything like that. I will say that I had a hard time really grasping the whole concept - which made it just that much harder to understand. BUT- what I did understand worked very well.

Hal is a really nice guy. I don't think he deserves to be bashed by anyone. He is willing to give his knowledge away for free. It is some very worthwhile information.

I would encourage anyone to try and get famaliar with his stuff. It will help your game. By the way, many players have had "systems" - I got to know Johnny Ervolino (may he rest in peace) before he died and he had a pretty good system for aiming. And it worked well for him.

Hal's system works. Is it for everyone. Probably not - but for those that really "get it" it is invaluable.

And that is all I can say - and it is from personal experience. I just wish Hal the best - he is a hell of a nice and interesting guy.

Mark Griffin
BCA Pool League


OK, Mark, let's all agree he's a nice guy.

What system of his works?

Lou Figueroa
going for some
Tic Tacs
 
I'm Never Too Busy To Help Someone

lfigueroa said:
......over the years, I've participated in many discussions about his systems. (There's more out there about them than you seem to be aware of.)
Lou Figueroa


Oy-Vey, I'll say: http://groups.google.com/groups?as_...97&as_maxd=26&as_maxm=2&as_maxy=2003&safe=off

And, here's one with words like 'information', 'disseminating' and 'proprietary' : http://groups.google.com/group/rec....8a38a41741bd?hl=en&lnk=st&q=#e65a8a38a41741bd

Doug


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I Think I've Heard This Before

jsp said:
Lol, this thread is just the continuation of an 8+ year discussion.


Yes, and I'm just waiting for the day when it dawns on AZB's participants that EVERYTHING has already been said (and most of it by many of AZB's participants)
Doug
( there's nothing new under the sun ) :)


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Smorgass Bored said:
Yes, and I'm just waiting for the day when it dawns on AZB's participants that EVERYTHING has already been said (and most of it by many of AZB's participants)
Doug
( there's nothing new under the sun ) :)


.


But, Smorg, they don't know that -- they all think the billiard discussion universe started with AZ :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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The Answer Is Out There......SOMEWHERE

Originally Posted by Smorgass Bored
Yes, and I'm just waiting for the day when it dawns on AZB's participants that EVERYTHING has already been said (and most of it by many of AZB's participants)
Doug
( there's nothing new under the sun ) :)



lfigueroa said:
But, Smorg, they don't know that -- they all think the billiard discussion universe stared with AZ :-)

Lou Figueroa

What really cracks me up is that there are about 20 RSBers that are now AZBers that have responded to Hal Houle threads everytime his name/system pops up.

In my Search, I used the dates 1997-2003 & rec.sport.billiard as the criteria and asked Google to show 100 threads per page. They not only showed 100 threads per page, but 10 pages....Oy-Vey ! (that's 1,000 threads in six years)
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2003&safe=off

You'd think we'd have gotten to the bottom of this Hal Houle 'aiming system' by now, wouldn't you ? :)

Doug


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Blackjack:
If the mind is closed the student will learn nothing.

Yeah, I hear the closed minded thing a lot - and usually don't react candidly to it. But since you're thoughtful enough to bring it up again, here's my view: if you've listened to what has been said (and not said) on the internet by Hal and his students and you don't already know what to expect from him, then you're not qualified to judge anybody's mind on the matter.

pj
chgo
 
good enough reason to call

Patrick,

Hal knows or has known pretty much anybody that was anybody in over the last half-century of pool. That alone makes him worth talking to. The fact that he slides a knife in most of them makes his conversations doubly entertaining.

The day I talked to him on the phone he had lockjaw concerning aiming systems, he had decided none could be taught over the phone. I still considered it three hours well spent. If nothing else I could just picture one great after another peacefully resting in his rocking chair, then suddenly Aaaargh! That familiar sharp stabbing pain in the short ribs, "Hal must be talking about me again." :D :D :D

Seriously, I would call him. If nothing is learned it is still great fun.

Hu



Patrick Johnson said:
Hal has called me a coupla times and emailed me several times asking me to discuss pool with him. I've never taken the time to do that because I've never seen anything that makes me want to, either from Hal or his students.pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Hal has called me a coupla times and emailed me several times asking me to discuss pool with him. I've never taken the time to do that because I've never seen anything that makes me want to, either from Hal or his students.

If Hal had anything to say that I'd want to spend an hour of my time listening to I'd have heard at least one useful thing from him or one of his students in all the years I've been listening. I never have. Not once. And I wouldn't have heard so much nonsense from his students, but I have. Lots. In fact, what his students have to say is either nonsense or nothing. There's never anything else. Never.

Maybe these signals don't register on you, but they do on me - loud and clear.

pj
chgo

Ya gotta laugh{or cry} 'cause this is the funniest statement you've made yet.
 
I?ve been following this whole thread and on the surface it just seems a little strange to me. I?m not sure why anyone would have a problem with a guy offering his ideas for free. It seems like Hal is a ?nice guy? and has a ?wealth of knowledge? and he just wants to help where he can to those that would listen. It seems to me if you don?t want to listen, then don?t. If you do, feel free. Maybe there is some personal stuff going on here or something but if he wants to share his insight to those that would listen, what?s the harm?
 
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