Hall of Fame for Parica

worriedbeef said:
we need to get TAR involved for this! ;)
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LOL! I don't think King James can handle Jimmy Mataya's gift of gab, so to speak!

Last time I saw Jim Rempe play, he won a Joss tournament, defeating Karen Corr in the finals twice. It was at Syracuse, New York, several years ago.

Then at Gene Hooker's 10-Ball Challenge in Atlantic City at the Trumps Casino (I think 2004), King James came in second place to Canadian Danny Hewitt. Jim Rempe doesn't play often, but the man's definitely still got game, make no mistake about it. ;)
 
sjm said:
Thanks for the clarifications, Fred. Apparently, hall of fame eligibility is a mighty confusing subject.
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And to close on this, the Hall of Fame Committee has made changes such that the voting body is more in line with other sports.

Mason King put out an article at some point on it on the BD front page, which is how I found out that I am eligible to vote for the board this year. There may be several other people on this or other boards that might fit into the qualifications.

"For more information, contact Carolyn Lewis in the BCA office at 264-8300 x128. In a related announcement, the newly-formed United States Billiard Media Association — comprised of “professional print, TV, video, marketing and Internet media persons who cover cue sports” — will elect members to the BCA’s Hall of Fame Board, which will nominate and then vote on future inductees. The BCA Board of Directors recently approved the new process, which is expected to be used to carry out the election for the Hall’s Class of 2007 this spring. For more information about the USBmA and the revised BCA Hall of Fame procedures, please contact Mike Panozzo or Mason King at Luby Publishing — (312) 341-1110..."

So, in an indirect way, the idea of "behind the scenes voting" might get lessened.



Fred
 
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Sorry this is so long

JAM said:
I think you are wrong about Parica. In fact, he does have more wins than Archer and Souquet. Jose's resume has well over 100 triumphs -- WINS, not second or third places -- as of 2003. That is when I saw it for the first time. Jose's wife has it, I think. I didn't save it, unfortunately. I wish I had. Many of these wins are unknown to the American pool media.

Before the WPA came into existence, Jose won the very first world pool tournament in Japan. When Jose was on top of his game, winning every single event he played in, it wasn't done here in the States at that time. It was pre-Efren Reyes era too.

If Jose Parica is a bride's maid in recent times, it should also be stated that he came in first place time and time again in his prime. What is remarkable about Jose Parica is that even though he will be 60 years old this year, he is still capable of beating anybody on the face of the earth, bar none, even Archer and Souquet.

Today's pool hotshot superstars get more notoriety than some pro players because they have fat stakehorses and sponsors that pay their way to attend events around the world. Of course, if given the opportunity, some other modern-day pros might be claiming a few victories if they had the dough.

I truly admire Jose Parica. He is one of the very few pool players I have let stay at my home. He doesn't smoke or drink, does not use any drugs. His only downside, if I may call it that, is the man loves to gamble. Nothing wrong with gambling, if you can afford it, but it sure is an expensive hobby.

Professional pool, competing in tournaments around the globe, is kind of like the lottery, I guess. You can't win if you don't play, and you gotta pay to play.
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JAM,
That's a nice post.
I logged on briefly this morning, saw your post and then I had to go run some errands & do some chores. But I kept pondering what you had said about Jose.
These threads that compare great players vs other greats and delve into their respective merits are among my favorite posts on AZB. And when a member of the "old guard" at AZB writes with first hand knowledge, I pay close attention. So I kept thinking about this on and off.

I have to mention something before I continue with my thoughts on Parica.
I started keeping pool stats on the great players, champions & tournaments when I was 11. This includes starting my collection of pool books, magazines, newspaper archives from as far back as the late 1800's as well as video recordings of these great players. One of the things I started doing with this is I made up my own personal H.O.F. And of all the hundreds and hundreds of players that have played this great sport, as of today I have only 27 players "enshrined". Granted, it's only on pen & paper, much like the BCA does things....but my point is that I only have the upper crust of the cream of the crop in my H.O.F. Another thing I started doing in Jan 1999 is every Jan 1 & July 1, I list my top 32 favorite pool players in order of how I like them. Parica has been in the # 25-#32 position since the inception of my list. So out of the hundreds of players around the world, I consider Jose one of my very favorites.

Now, here's a copy of SJM's steller post #19 in this thread dealing with Ralf Souquet.....

[QUOTE SJM Amomg non-inductees, the most complete playing resume of the nine ball era belongs to Ralf Souquet. When it comes to competing against the most elite international fields ---

Ral Souquet has won the World 8-ball championship
Ralf Souquet has won the World 9-Ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Sands Regency 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 14.1 Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the BCA Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Derby City Classic 9-ball Championship

Multiple Eurotour wins and Mosconi Cup wins are also present on Souquet's playing resume.

Until the inevitable happened, the BCA Hall of Fame lacked credibility with me because of Earl Strickland's absence. Now, it lacks credibility with me because of Ralf Souquet's absence. Archer and Souquet have, by far, the strongest cases among non-inductees, are are the next guys that ought to get in.

Parica and Bustamante have much weaker cases than Souquet and Archer, but are good enough to merit serious consideration. Of course, I could care less what they accomplished as gamblers. That shouldn't count for anything in the eyes of this pool fan. [QUOTE SJM]

I agree with Stu. Souquet's credentials are very, very impressive, and cover major wins, including multiple world championships, in various pool disciplines. He already has 3 DCC 9 Ball Championships! He should most assuredly be enshrined in the H.O.F. (He's already one of the 27 in mine)

Now, moving on to Oliver Ortmann..... He seems to knock off several major wins in 8 Ball, 9 Ball & 14.1 every year. His resume includes 2 U.S. Open 14.1 Championships, a World 14.1 Championship (Thanks Cameron!. I know his stats by heart & can't believe I forgot this. Thank you!) a World 9 Ball Championship, 5 European 14.1 Championships, 6 European 9 Ball Championships, 2 European 8 Ball Championships, 10 German 14.1 Championships, 3 German 9 Ball Championships and he is a 2 time winner of the Challenge of Champions. He's also won, by my last count, 72 other tournaments in Germany and Europe in 8 ball, 9 ball & 14.1!
What great credentials!
Most of his European & German titles were won in fields that included Ralf Souquet, Thomas Engert, Thorsten Hohmann, Niels Fijen, Mika Immonen, Marcus Chamet, Nico Otterman, Alex Lely, Daryl Peach, Darren Appleton and the like.

And Ortmann, besides always being in the #3-#6 spots on my favorites players list, is also in my personal H.O.F.

Back to Jose....I think he has two things going for him that Souquet & Ortmann do NOT have, and that's his great reputation as a money player and secondly, his incredible longevity.

In 2003 & 2005, I was pulling so hard for "Amang" to win when he made it to the finals of the U.S. Open. Nothing against JJ or Alex, but who was NOT rooting for Jose to finally win a super-major! Had he done that, I think there would be no debating of his merits to be inducted or not. But, because he has over 100 tournament victories around the world is not a credential unique just to him. Younger men, like Ortmann & Souquet, are ever closer to 100 wins also. Plus, they already have multiple World Championships and major wins in assorted disciplines.
Jose's wins were mostly 9 ball, however, he also has major wins in the 2003 DCC 1P division, his 2001 DCC win in Banks & his 2002 DCC "All-Around" Championship. No doubting Jose's great all-around skills. He's in the Efren, Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins class of great all around players.

But, at the end of the day, I personally would have Souquet & Ortmann inducted before Parica, based solely on their respective credentials. I believe that Jose Parica is very worthy of induction into the H.O.F., but so are Ortmann and Souquet. And so is Thomas Hueston, Jerome Keogh and Bennie Allen.
Bottom line....I think this is so fun and informative debating back & forth about our favorite champions! :)

Here's some links to additional info on Jose....
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2008.php?playernum=41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Parica ***YOU may even have written the Parica article on Wikipedia JAM, as I know you put lots of work in there....
 
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Terry Ardeno said:
...........................I started keeping pool stats on the great players, champions & tournaments when I was 11. This includes starting my collection of pool books, magazines, newspaper archives from as far back as the late 1800's as well as video recordings of these great players. ....................
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Can I have a library card??

:smilewinkgrin: :smilewinkgrin: :smilewinkgrin:

J/K..... Thanks for all the great posts!!


td
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Now, moving on to Oliver Ortmann..... He seems to knock off several major wins in 8 Ball, 9 Ball & 14.1 every year. His resume includes 2 U.S. Open 14.1 Championships, a World 9 Ball Championship, 5 European 14.1 Championships, 6 European 9 Ball Championships, 2 European 8 Ball Championships, 10 German 14.1 Championships, 3 German 9 Ball Championships and he is a 2 time winner of the Challenge of Champions. He's also won, by my last count, 72 other tournaments in Germany and Europe in 8 ball, 9 ball & 14.1!
What great credentials!
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Just to add to your point, he has a World 14.1 Championships in 2007 I believe.
 
DrawtheRock said:
Is it just me or does anybody else think it is just flat out wrong for Jose Parica not to be in the Hall of Fame ...Comments?
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If they don't let Amang in the "Hall of Fame" it should be renamed the "Hall of Shame.";)
 
Terry Ardeno said:
...Bottom line....I think this is so fun and informative debating back & forth about our favorite champions! :)

Here's some links to additional info on Jose....
http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2008.php?playernum=41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Parica ***YOU may even have written the Parica article on Wikipedia JAM, as I know you put lots of work in there....
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Terry, I appreciate your well-written post and enjoyed the read.

There is so much about pool, especially American pool, that one cannot ascertain unless they were there, living it, up front and close. There are no archives, other than the pool print media. Some media tended to cover regional areas, as opposed to the entire country, and other media tended to only cover pool players who were selling product for their advertisers. In other words, players like Vernon Elliott, Cornbread Red, Larry Lisciotti, Scotty Townsend, Kentucky Bear, Cole Dixon, et cetera, et cetera, remain virtually unknown to a whole lot of folks today. They make up the very fabric of this sport just as much as Mike Sigel, Earl Strickland, Nick Varner, Jean Balukas, and Buddy Hall.

Many of Jose Parica's championship titles are unknown to Americans, I think, maybe because they were won in other countries, other pool cultures, at a time when American pool media was not paying close attention to triumphs in the Philippines.

It was only when the Filipino Invasion occurred, with Jose Parica leading the way well before Efren Reyes, that Americans began to pay a little closer attention to these Filipino champions.

According to Keith, he says before the Filipinos, it was all about the Mexican pool champions. He said there were MANY Mexican pool greats, some of whom are, unfortunately, unknown to a lot of folks today as well.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It is definitely true in today's pool world too.

With only a handful of American pros being able to afford to travel to Qatar, Philippines, Korea, England, Malta, and Saudi Arabia, as an example, there will be some worthy American champions who are not afforded the opportunity to compete and achieve the victories that a Ralf Souquet has achieved. I am not taking anything away from Ralf Souquet. He happens to be the one that you mentioned, and so I am using him as an example. Today's American pros, probably less than all 10 of them, that can afford to go to these tournaments usually are sponsored by the handful of American industry members and/or fat stakehorses.

Let's think about Larry Nevel or Dennis Hatch. Both of these American pros are capable of defeating any player on the face of the earth. But guess what, neither of them have the funds to attend tournaments around the world on a regular basis. Last I heard, Dennis has a day job, and I think I read on this forum that Larry went back to work.

Today, just like American jobs, pool is being outsourced more and more. There will be less tournaments on American soil, and when this happens, it means less Americans will be able to compete on an international scale.

With the BCA organization experiencing financial difficulties in 2009, it is not a good sign for American pool. They are supposed to be our so-called "representative" with the WPA, an organization who seems to go where they get their hand greased.

In sum, I enjoy these debates and have learned a great deal from reading posts written by you, Terry. I am not a pool purist, however. I think Cornbread Red is just as great a pool player as Nick Varner. A tournament soldier may get more recognition, but it does not mean that they are the better player.

Thanks for reading my post. I know it's a long one. I hope I explained my opinion without offending anyone. :p
 
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This, in many ways, reminds me of the arguments you hear over MVP voting in baseball. The proper winner depends on how you define the award. Is it the most valuable member of the team or simply the best player in the league? The answer to those two questions always give you different answers, and until the strictly define the qualifications there will always be a debate.

I see the BCA Hall of Fame the same way. Parcia has won a slew of tournaments, but his lack of a monster modern "name" tournament hurts him. This could easily be overshadowed by his intensely well regarded gamble, but that is a shockingly difficult thing to measure. If gambling was included as one of his accomplishments, he would already be in. But I think it is plain to see that the BCA does not consider that part of the equations.

His legend is growing by the day, and I think he will get in, eventually. Gamblers like to fly under the radar, so his slow, subtle ascension into the Hall of Fame suits him.
 
JAM said:
I think you are wrong about Parica. In fact, he does have more wins than Archer and Souquet. Jose's resume has well over 100 triumphs -- WINS, not second or third places -- as of 2003. That is when I saw it for the first time. Jose's wife has it, I think. I didn't save it, unfortunately. I wish I had. Many of these wins are unknown to the American pool media.
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I believe I said that Archer and Souquet have more MAJOR tournaments wins then Parica. I never mentioned that he has not won a bunch of tournamnets around the world. Sanctioned world championships, U.S. Opens are majors(along with some others maybe). Most of the tournaments have the same players and formats, so it might not be completely fair to label one the 'World Championship', but many sports are like this, in that reguard.

Even Terry mentioned that Parica doesn't have a lot of sanctioned major tournament wins-
"He has 2 unsanctioned World 9 Ball Championships that he won in Japan. The promoter called these tournaments "World Championships" but that's not quite the case.
I know about his Camel tour winnings and P.O.Y., but outside of the DCC's, he has no real major championships. Lot's of mid-level tournaments won though. Much the same could be said of Bustamonte....great talent, no major championships other than at the DCC and 1999 Challenge of Champions. Won several Camel events."
 
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Anito, Jay, Someone...

From an interview with Parica, I heard him state that he is ahead of Efren and they usually play ahead sets to 13/15 for high....
I forget the actual number, but it was something like 80 wins, 20 losses... is that accurate?
 
I won't be contributing any more. Sorry about the comment.
 
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JAM said:
Your present-day knowledge isn't the only thing that you should be basing these two champions' portfolios on. However, since Jose was probably winning MAJOR tournaments when you were still an itch in your father's pants may be one reason why your knowledge base is so limited. I do feel empathy for youth. I was young myself at one time. Sometimes young folk think they know it all, and sometimes oldsters, those who have more years of experience in life, know a bit extra.
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classy.....
 
eyesjr said:
From an interview with Parica, I heard him state that he is ahead of Efren and they usually play ahead sets to 13/15 for high....
I forget the actual number, but it was something like 80 wins, 20 losses... is that accurate?
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No, that's not accurate. First of all in the Philippines they do not play "ahead" sets, only "races". That causes me to suspect the rest of this information immediately.
 
Just for kicks I thought I'd mention Parica's demolishing of the field at the 1995 Roanoke one pocket.

15 wins, one loss in his last 3 matches including the finals. Field included Grady, Buddy Hall, Mizerak and other quality players.
 
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