hammer stroke
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
I tend to aim a little lower than normal and make the tip go UP through the ball.
Power follow was probably one of the best parts of my game.....
...it's kinda like cross-stroking....but on the vertical plane.
If I'm ever in your area again,Neil, I'll pm you....it would be interesting.
I too do what you're saying.
But getting the cue as level as possible for most all shots gets the ball rolling or sliding or back spinning ON the cloth as soon as possible.
Hearing the ball bounce is not a good thing in my mind unless I have a reason to make it do so.
Best,
Rick
For More on the Hammer Stoke Click HERE <<<<--------
It's funny, the road players I've ran around with talked about "Pinning," "Touch of Inside," and "Dead Stroke (The Zone)" because it was an important aspect of our games to play at the highest levels.
We didn't talk about "aiming systems," or "pendulum strokes," yet that's a major topic of conversation I see on this forum..... anyway.... For More on the Hammer Stoke Click HERE <<<<--------
This is interesting.....very, very, interesting .....
These techniques aren't anything "mystical," although they are Supernatural.....yes, that's right, they're "Natural" in a "Super" way.......I have to believe it's only for those that are meant to have the information.....that's so..........priceless.....
'The Game is the Teacher, and the Teacher has a SuperNatural Sense of Humor"
It's funny, the road players I've ran around with talked about "Pinning," "Touch of Inside," and "Dead Stroke (The Zone)" because it was an important aspect of our games to play at the highest levels.
We didn't talk about "aiming systems," or "pendulum strokes," yet that's a major topic of conversation I see on this forum..... anyway.... For More on the Hammer Stoke Click HERE <<<<--------
This is interesting.....very, very, interesting .....
These techniques aren't anything "mystical," although they are Supernatural.....yes, that's right, they're "Natural" in a "Super" way.......I have to believe it's only for those that are meant to have the information.....that's so..........priceless.....
'The Game is the Teacher, and the Teacher has a SuperNatural Sense of Humor"
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It's funny, the road players I've ran around with talked about "Pinning," "Touch of Inside," and "Dead Stroke (The Zone)" because it was an important aspect of our games to play at the highest levels.
We didn't talk about "aiming systems," or "pendulum strokes," yet that's a major topic of conversation I see on this forum..... anyway.... For More on the Hammer Stoke Click HERE <<<<--------
This is interesting.....very, very, interesting .....
These techniques aren't anything "mystical," although they are Supernatural.....yes, that's right, they're "Natural" in a "Super" way.....and it's interesting that only a few players can grasp the concepts.....I have to believe it's only those that are meant to have the information.....that's so..........priceless.....
What's "priceless" is that you say you can defy physics. That "science" just hasn't caught up to you yet. That you can't seem to grasp the simplest of the physics concepts, but keep adding your own special twist to what really happens just so you can sell some more DVD's. Marketing, marketing, marketing, got to keep it going, or people will once again forget the infamous CJ that knows things about pool that no one else has ever seen. Even though much of the accurate stuff is actually common knowledge. Just like you stated in this very post that I quoted. Pinning was supposed to be "top secret", but all the pros know about it. Yeah, ok, carry on with your add campaign. And don't forget to keep knocking all the science everytime you get busted by it.
This produces a piercing contact to the cue ball that makes a distinct sound.........
As I pointed out there are three different ways of producing a good stroke as far as the wrist is concerned. This may not be something you want to incorporate, but from my experience it's "different stokes for different folks" and it's never a bad thing to find out if something "may work better {for yourself}. In the process you may find out more about your own style and improve it in the process. Either way it's a win/win situation and it certainly won't hurt and many times it will expand your mind, and your game.
My uncocking action is a smooth transition that occurs much like the hammer motion. My arm moves at a slower, consistent speed then the wrist kicks in right before contact. I then accelerate the TOP {center} EDGE of my tip to the exact point on the cue ball....this point tends to be slightly to the inside of center (and that's another story) This produces a piercing contact to the cue ball that makes a distinct sound. Many of you that's seen top champions play LIVE will know the sound I'm referring to.
There is no "snapping motions" in my delivery, and I can produce enough power to draw the ball an impressive distance with just the wrist movement and very little arm speed at all.
As I pointed out there are three different ways of producing a good stroke as far as the wrist is concerned. This may not be something you want to incorporate, but from my experience it's "different stokes for different folks" and it's never a bad thing to find out if something "may work better {for yourself}. In the process you may find out more about your own style and improve it in the process. Either way it's a win/win situation and it certainly won't hurt and many times it will expand your mind, and your game.
My uncocking action is a smooth transition that occurs much like the hammer motion. My arm moves at a slower, consistent speed then the wrist kicks in right before contact. I then accelerate the TOP {center} EDGE of my tip to the exact point on the cue ball....this point tends to be slightly to the inside of center (and that's another story
) This produces a piercing contact to the cue ball that makes a distinct sound. Many of you that's seen top champions play LIVE will know the sound I'm referring to.There is no "snapping motions" in my delivery, and I can produce enough power to draw the ball an impressive distance with just the wrist movement and very little arm speed at all.
As I pointed out there are three different ways of producing a good stroke as far as the wrist is concerned. This may not be something you want to incorporate, but from my experience it's "different stokes for different folks" and it's never a bad thing to find out if something "may work better {for yourself}. In the process you may find out more about your own style and improve it in the process. Either way it's a win/win situation and it certainly won't hurt and many times it will expand your mind, and your game.
My uncocking action is a smooth transition that occurs much like the hammer motion. My arm moves at a slower, consistent speed then the wrist kicks in right before contact. I then accelerate the TOP {center} EDGE of my tip to the exact point on the cue ball....this point tends to be slightly to the inside of center (and that's another story
There is no "snapping motions" in my delivery, and I can produce enough power to draw the ball an impressive distance with just the wrist movement and very little arm speed at all.
When you say uncocking, do you mean going from a position of ulnar deviation to radial deviation, or the other way around? I have had a terrible time with this type of thing for the past yr or so. I noticed that radially deviating my wrist caused increased spin, so I started using it more and more. I imagine that is part of the pinning process. However, that will cause the CB to jump up some, and as I used it more, it became exaggerated to the point that I am jumping the CB when I try to hit draw with a hard stroke due to the sudden downward movement of the tip at CB strike. It happens often whether I am 1 tip or 3 tips below center because it is due to the sudden pinning and not hitting below the miscue line. I can tell by reviewing my chalk marks. It seems to have become part of my stroke when I try to use a hard stroke for more power. I would like to understand this better to be able to correctly us my wrist without sending the CB flying. It has become a very frustrating part of my game.
Many people do the same things with different terminalogy. There is nothing hocus pocus about the shots or strokes CJ is promoting.
I'm only suggesting you try these type techniques with an open mind.
It's the same wrist motion you'd use in hammering a nail, throwing a dart or, as Hank Haney (Tiger Woods past swing coach) demonstrates, stroking a golf ball. This is the opposite of what's commonly taught, but don't let that confuse you, what's "commonly taught" and what's most effective are often very different.
This is evident in sports, games, history, science and yes, even pocket billiards.....pool is not "the exception," it's the sample example. Controlling the TIP with the hand (through your cue) is mandatory for maximizing touch, feel and acceleration in YOUR GAME.
You can see this in all facets of life and the world. I'm only suggesting you try these type techniques with an open mind.....and let the game be your teacher.
It's the same wrist motion you'd use in hammering a nail, throwing a dart or, as Hank Haney (Tiger Woods past swing coach) demonstrates, stroking a golf ball. This is the opposite of what's commonly taught, but don't let that confuse you, what's "commonly taught" and what's most effective are often very different.
This is evident in sports, games, history, science and yes, even pocket billiards.....pool is not "the exception," it's the sample example. Controlling the TIP with the hand (through your cue) is mandatory for maximizing touch, feel and acceleration in YOUR GAME.
You can see this in all facets of life and the world. I'm only suggesting you try these type techniques with an open mind.....and let the game be your teacher.
Neil to CJ Wiley, "That "science" just hasn't caught up to you yet".
That could very well be true.
The median pro golf swing of today is not the same as in the 40s & Byron Nelson was not swinging like the average pro golfer.
They named the golf robot after him. It's call 'Iron Byron'.
Perhaps CJ was a bit ahead of the curve.
That could very well be true.
The median pro golf swing of today is not the same as in the 40s & Byron Nelson was not swinging like the average pro golfer.
They named the golf robot after him. It's call 'Iron Byron'.
Perhaps CJ was a bit ahead of the curve.
It's the same wrist motion you'd use in hammering a nail, throwing a dart or, as Hank Haney (Tiger Woods past swing coach) demonstrates, stroking a golf ball. This is the opposite of what's commonly taught, but don't let that confuse you, what's "commonly taught" and what's most effective are often very different.
This is evident in sports, games, history, science and yes, even pocket billiards.....pool is not "the exception," it's the sample example. Controlling the TIP with the hand (through your cue) is mandatory for maximizing touch, feel and acceleration in YOUR GAME.
You can see this in all facets of life and the world. I'm only suggesting you try these type techniques with an open mind.....and let the game be your teacher.
mantis99:
In the spirit of offering a different explanation (and in the spirit of hoping it "clicks"), I posted a description of this technique in this thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=295465
What CJ is describing is using the same forward-flick motion (as shown in the Hank Haney picture above) to push the cue down upon your bridge hand, thus resulting in a "squirt forward" motion of the cue. That is, by using that ulnar deviation motion of the wrist, you're pushing the cue down (but not letting the butt descend nor the tip rise), and using just a bit of "permissive motion" of the biceps, "let" the cue move forward.
Give it a try. You may find you like it; then again you may not. I did shoot like this for a little while -- a couple months -- to give it the ol' boy scout try, but found that I didn't have the accuracy -- especially on long-distance shots -- as I do with a pinned wrist and "cage" cradle grip (as taught in snooker).
Hope this helps,
-Sean
Ive tried hitting down on the CB before for top spin and its so unreliable it hurts.
Some shots would cause massive amounts of top spin for the tip placement and speed I hit it but most would result in a CB with hot feet. It would just hop around the table then a bigger hop upon contact and all the top spin would be lost.
Works much better for draw. There's a video of Corey making a nice shot with extreme draw where he uses a closed bridge on top of the rail to hit right down on the CB. Only way he could get position. Its no big secret, every body knows hitting down into the CB causes more spin.
I hate comparing pool to other sports but here goes... Its the same in golf. Notice the divot mark when pros add back spin to the ball. Its always infront of where the ball was. Its because they hit down into the ball.
Some shots would cause massive amounts of top spin for the tip placement and speed I hit it but most would result in a CB with hot feet. It would just hop around the table then a bigger hop upon contact and all the top spin would be lost.
Works much better for draw. There's a video of Corey making a nice shot with extreme draw where he uses a closed bridge on top of the rail to hit right down on the CB. Only way he could get position. Its no big secret, every body knows hitting down into the CB causes more spin.
I hate comparing pool to other sports but here goes... Its the same in golf. Notice the divot mark when pros add back spin to the ball. Its always infront of where the ball was. Its because they hit down into the ball.
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Hi Pidge
I don't like hitting down for 'top spin' or even for just rolling the ball. But in certain situations like when the balls are close together where a more normal stroke might result in a double hit, you can hit down on top of the ball & get the ball to follow & roll out quite far. When I do it I let the cue tip come up & take the cue off my open bridge.
Best,
Rick
PS That downward tip movement when hitting high is one reason I don't like a pendulum stroke as the tip can be arcing down during contact as the hand comes up. To me that is not conducive for the best outcome.
How we doing Rick?
When the balls are so close together I don't hit down I hit up at as much an angle as I can. Gets the tip right out of the way
smashed a few lights along the way too! I don't want to get into the whole stroke saga again. My pendulum stroke gets the right outcome more often than not
How we doing Rick?
When the balls are so close together I don't hit down I hit up at as much an angle as I can. Gets the tip right out of the way
I don't want to get into the whole stroke saga again. My pendulum stroke gets the right outcome more often than not
Pidge,
I hear you. I actually do the same as you at times.
I mis-communicated the situation earlier. I was actually thinking of shooting over a ball when the balls are close.
You have a great weekend.
Best,
Rick
What's "priceless" is that you say you can defy physics. That "science" just hasn't caught up to you yet. That you can't seem to grasp the simplest of the physics concepts, but keep adding your own special twist to what really happens just so you can sell some more DVD's. Marketing, marketing, marketing, got to keep it going, or people will once again forget the infamous CJ that knows things about pool that no one else has ever seen. Even though much of the accurate stuff is actually common knowledge. Just like you stated in this very post that I quoted. Pinning was supposed to be "top secret", but all the pros know about it. Yeah, ok, carry on with your add campaign. And don't forget to keep knocking all the science everytime you get busted by it.
Warning: Very long book following. Sorry, I just have to get all these thoughts off my mind and open them up for public scrutiny. Blast away, I'm curious about what others think about this...
Neil, I do so much agree with you that CJ might benefit from a little physics instruction. After all, "The physics teacher is the teacher", eh? Don't hold your breath with this guy, though.
However, I have felt for a long time that there has not been enough research done on ball-cloth interactions to make definitive statements. Most studies regarding billiards have to do with ball-ball collisions. I have no idea how an engineer might set up the proper equipment to study the forces involved at the ball-cloth interface, but I'm fairly certain there is still much to be learned.
I keep reading the pure physics side of the argument, that there is nothing involved in a good stroke beyond cue mass, cue velocity, and impact point on the CB, but I hear just as many accounts of players who obviously possess superior strokes, and it always seems to me that there is something special about the way an accomplished player hits the ball that I never, ever seem to accomplish even by accident.
As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. However, I have yet to get the CB to travel 8' to the OB and draw back all the way to the other end of the table despite hundreds of attempts stroking the ball as hard and as low as I dare. Hundreds of scooped balls flying over the OB and into the pocket tell me I was hitting low enough at least some of the time. You'd think there might be just one time everything would come together and create the perfect storm of strokes that would accomplish the goal. So far... nada.
This much I do notice, though. Over the last few years of working almost entirely on my stroke and the "way I hit the ball", I have tried just about everything I have read in a book, seen in video, watched in real life, or heard discussed on this forum. Lots of wacky stuff I never heard or saw anywhere as well. I am finally starting to get what I would call a decent stroke, and I can do things with the CB that I was incapable of doing my whole life as a mediocre bar banger.
This goes way beyond just hitting the ball in the correct spot at the correct speed, I'm sure of that. In fact, I'm not even aiming at a particular spot on the CB anymore. I just "feel" what I want the CB to do and try to make it happen in real life. My success at this has greatly improved over the last few years, and accompanying all of this is the distinct feeling that I am just "hitting the ball better". It feels different, more solid contact, better sound, "firmer" hit, better CB reaction to the cue, etc.
I can draw the ball back several feet with a soft stroke now, where before I had to slam the shit out of it just to get it to stop. I can finally feel the cue "get through the ball", and when that happens perfectly I am always pleasantly surprised with the outcome. Physics has no formulas to explain this, but I definitely can feel it in my stroke, and see it in improved results. Stop shots at all distances are easy as can be now, and this alone has allowed me to learn some pattern play that previously eluded me.
Now, getting to the topic at hand...
When CJ first mentioned this way of hitting the ball, I ignored my dislike for the spam man's antics on AZB and ran down to the table to try it anyway. That's the way I am, I'll try anything just out of curiosity. The results were less than stellar, but I kept the notion in the back of my mind for future reference.
Then one day I was shooting some jacked-up one-handed shots because my back gave out and I couldn't bend over the table. I am always amazed at how well I shoot this way in spite of having no bridge at all. Maybe because I never lose sight of the aiming line while getting down on the shot, I don't know. I'm no Jesse Allred, but I do OK at it.
I had a difficult shot to make in the corner, one of them where a right-hander has to shoot lefty or use the rake, and I just couldn't feel steady without any sort of bridge, so I just held my left hand out in an open bridge position, waited for it to feel steady, and shot down at the ball off this suspended bridge. Not only did the shot go in, the CB reaction after contact was bizarre. It jumped up, came back to the table and spun for a second, then grabbed the cloth with the best masse I've ever been able to muster. I made shot after shot with this weird "air bridge" with similar results. I think this is the "immediate" swerve you were speaking of above. Then I put it on the shelf for future exploration.
Some time later I was advising a member who was having trouble drawing the ball. I told him set up a stripe ball with the stripe horizontally and try to hit the edge of the stripe with the top of his tip and shoot down toward the bottom of the OB several inches away. Well, it didn't seem to help him much, but that little visualization sure helped me! I was "pinning" the CB the correct way, and my draw improved instantly. I remembered reading that Mike Sigel said you had to hit down on the CB to get a good draw or you would miscue. Since then it has clicked, and drawing the ball has become easy (until I get up to the extreme power draw stage, where I am as feeble as ever).
The most recent epiphany with my stroke happened just this month. I was watching the 14.1 at Steinway and was marveling at how Ortmann stroked the ball when jacked up over several balls. This has always been one of the most difficult aspects of the game, and it happens all the time playing straight pool. After his match I went down to the table and started practicing over balls, but I kept fouling as usual. Suddenly it occurred to me that the best way to practice this stroke was to eliminate the balls you have to shoot over and stroke the shot as if they were there. No actual intimidating balls to fret about fouling that way.
What I did was to shoot every single shot for several days using a jacked-up bridge, just like I had balls I needed to shoot over. This practice had unexpected and very beneficial effects on my stroke. I found out I could shoot with a real long bridge and down into the ball without creating tons of unwanted swerve as long as I hit centrer ball (no, I did not try using a "touch of inside" lol), and the balls were just dropping in the pocket.
For me, I am convinced I finally learned to "pin" the ball, using a natural pendulum stroke like Chris Renfro mentions with just a touch of that hammer finish (TOH) that CJ is constantly going on about. And it works great for me... at least until the next stroke revelation comes along and alters things a bit.:wink:
So have at it. Am I onto something different, or is this just the way all good players stroke the ball?
It takes me about an hour to teach this concept in person, but in writing............
Yes, pool's just a miniture version in many ways to golf, not literally of course, but in certain principles.
Anytime a pro follows through you can see that their wrist is releasing down because the distance between their cue and elbow decreases in distance. The bicep is a muscle that's looks good (maybe) but is more for decoration than strength, the tricep is best for that.
Try taking a hammer and hammering a nail the regular way into a board, then turn the board over and hammer it upside down. Which is better visually and kinesthetically? You be the judge, I'm just the messenger giving some "food for thought"..nothing more.
In hammering a nail you are extending the hammer's "head" away from your eyes, and in pool you are extending the TIP away from your eyes.....think about this for a moment.
It takes me about an hour to teach this concept in person, but in writing it leaves a lot to interpretation, it's not some deep, dark mysterious thing, it's actually quite natural. Many players are doing it and don't "real eyes" what's really happening because it's never been brought to their attention.....until now.
Yes, pool's just a miniture version in many ways to golf, not literally of course, but in certain principles.
Anytime a pro follows through you can see that their wrist is releasing down because the distance between their cue and elbow decreases in distance. The bicep is a muscle that's looks good (maybe) but is more for decoration than strength, the tricep is best for that.
Try taking a hammer and hammering a nail the regular way into a board, then turn the board over and hammer it upside down. Which is better visually and kinesthetically? You be the judge, I'm just the messenger giving some "food for thought"..nothing more.
In hammering a nail you are extending the hammer's "head" away from your eyes, and in pool you are extending the TIP away from your eyes.....think about this for a moment.
It takes me about an hour to teach this concept in person, but in writing it leaves a lot to interpretation, it's not some deep, dark mysterious thing, it's actually quite natural. Many players are doing it and don't "real eyes" what's really happening because it's never been brought to their attention.....until now.
we were NOT put on earth to play these games, so what's "Natural" must have training
Yes, you are getting the "message" by not seeking to cut off the messenger's head.
We know new ideas and revelations cause controversy, but someone must be willing to represent it anyway so the majority can enjoy the benefits.....this happened in all games along the way, especially golf and tennis in the last 20 years.
I understand physics very well, and nothing I'm saying is anything other than a natural phenomenon....it's just a different way of thinking about it, that's all and most people can see that right away, and some need some time to "digest" new information.
It's like crossing your arms, some of us do it right arm over left, and others do it left arm over right....which is correct? It's like that in pool, some players use their wrist in one way, some another, and some choose not to use them at all. I'm saying there's room for improvement by experimenting with this and, form my experience there is.
When I said this was "Supernatural," it's "Natural" in a "Super" way....this absolutely conforms to any physics model you choose to compare it to....it's totally natural to move your wrists/hands/forearms to hammer a nail, throw a dart and swing a golf club IF YOU TRAIN YOURSELF THIS WAY.....we were NOT put on earth to play these games, so what's "Natural" must have some conscious training.
"In pool, if it "feels" right, it's probably wrong"......or everyone would be able to do it.
Warning: Very long book following. Sorry, I just have to get all these thoughts off my mind and open them up for public scrutiny. Blast away, I'm curious about what others think about this...
Neil, I do so much agree with you that CJ might benefit from a little physics instruction. After all, "The physics teacher is the teacher", eh? Don't hold your breath with this guy, though.
However, I have felt for a long time that there has not been enough research done on ball-cloth interactions to make definitive statements. Most studies regarding billiards have to do with ball-ball collisions. I have no idea how an engineer might set up the proper equipment to study the forces involved at the ball-cloth interface, but I'm fairly certain there is still much to be learned.
I keep reading the pure physics side of the argument, that there is nothing involved in a good stroke beyond cue mass, cue velocity, and impact point on the CB, but I hear just as many accounts of players who obviously possess superior strokes, and it always seems to me that there is something special about the way an accomplished player hits the ball that I never, ever seem to accomplish even by accident.
As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. However, I have yet to get the CB to travel 8' to the OB and draw back all the way to the other end of the table despite hundreds of attempts stroking the ball as hard and as low as I dare. Hundreds of scooped balls flying over the OB and into the pocket tell me I was hitting low enough at least some of the time. You'd think there might be just one time everything would come together and create the perfect storm of strokes that would accomplish the goal. So far... nada.
This much I do notice, though. Over the last few years of working almost entirely on my stroke and the "way I hit the ball", I have tried just about everything I have read in a book, seen in video, watched in real life, or heard discussed on this forum. Lots of wacky stuff I never heard or saw anywhere as well. I am finally starting to get what I would call a decent stroke, and I can do things with the CB that I was incapable of doing my whole life as a mediocre bar banger.
This goes way beyond just hitting the ball in the correct spot at the correct speed, I'm sure of that. In fact, I'm not even aiming at a particular spot on the CB anymore. I just "feel" what I want the CB to do and try to make it happen in real life. My success at this has greatly improved over the last few years, and accompanying all of this is the distinct feeling that I am just "hitting the ball better". It feels different, more solid contact, better sound, "firmer" hit, better CB reaction to the cue, etc.
I can draw the ball back several feet with a soft stroke now, where before I had to slam the shit out of it just to get it to stop. I can finally feel the cue "get through the ball", and when that happens perfectly I am always pleasantly surprised with the outcome. Physics has no formulas to explain this, but I definitely can feel it in my stroke, and see it in improved results. Stop shots at all distances are easy as can be now, and this alone has allowed me to learn some pattern play that previously eluded me.
Now, getting to the topic at hand...
When CJ first mentioned this way of hitting the ball, I ignored my dislike for the spam man's antics on AZB and ran down to the table to try it anyway. That's the way I am, I'll try anything just out of curiosity. The results were less than stellar, but I kept the notion in the back of my mind for future reference.
Then one day I was shooting some jacked-up one-handed shots because my back gave out and I couldn't bend over the table. I am always amazed at how well I shoot this way in spite of having no bridge at all. Maybe because I never lose sight of the aiming line while getting down on the shot, I don't know. I'm no Jesse Allred, but I do OK at it.
I had a difficult shot to make in the corner, one of them where a right-hander has to shoot lefty or use the rake, and I just couldn't feel steady without any sort of bridge, so I just held my left hand out in an open bridge position, waited for it to feel steady, and shot down at the ball off this suspended bridge. Not only did the shot go in, the CB reaction after contact was bizarre. It jumped up, came back to the table and spun for a second, then grabbed the cloth with the best masse I've ever been able to muster. I made shot after shot with this weird "air bridge" with similar results. I think this is the "immediate" swerve you were speaking of above. Then I put it on the shelf for future exploration.
Some time later I was advising a member who was having trouble drawing the ball. I told him set up a stripe ball with the stripe horizontally and try to hit the edge of the stripe with the top of his tip and shoot down toward the bottom of the OB several inches away. Well, it didn't seem to help him much, but that little visualization sure helped me! I was "pinning" the CB the correct way, and my draw improved instantly. I remembered reading that Mike Sigel said you had to hit down on the CB to get a good draw or you would miscue. Since then it has clicked, and drawing the ball has become easy (until I get up to the extreme power draw stage, where I am as feeble as ever).
The most recent epiphany with my stroke happened just this month. I was watching the 14.1 at Steinway and was marveling at how Ortmann stroked the ball when jacked up over several balls. This has always been one of the most difficult aspects of the game, and it happens all the time playing straight pool. After his match I went down to the table and started practicing over balls, but I kept fouling as usual. Suddenly it occurred to me that the best way to practice this stroke was to eliminate the balls you have to shoot over and stroke the shot as if they were there. No actual intimidating balls to fret about fouling that way.
What I did was to shoot every single shot for several days using a jacked-up bridge, just like I had balls I needed to shoot over. This practice had unexpected and very beneficial effects on my stroke. I found out I could shoot with a real long bridge and down into the ball without creating tons of unwanted swerve as long as I hit centrer ball (no, I did not try using a "touch of inside" lol), and the balls were just dropping in the pocket.
For me, I am convinced I finally learned to "pin" the ball, using a natural pendulum stroke like Chris Renfro mentions with just a touch of that hammer finish (TOH) that CJ is constantly going on about. And it works great for me... at least until the next stroke revelation comes along and alters things a bit.:wink:
So have at it. Am I onto something different, or is this just the way all good players stroke the ball?
Yes, you are getting the "message" by not seeking to cut off the messenger's head.
We know new ideas and revelations cause controversy, but someone must be willing to represent it anyway so the majority can enjoy the benefits.....this happened in all games along the way, especially golf and tennis in the last 20 years.
I understand physics very well, and nothing I'm saying is anything other than a natural phenomenon....it's just a different way of thinking about it, that's all and most people can see that right away, and some need some time to "digest" new information.
It's like crossing your arms, some of us do it right arm over left, and others do it left arm over right....which is correct? It's like that in pool, some players use their wrist in one way, some another, and some choose not to use them at all. I'm saying there's room for improvement by experimenting with this and, form my experience there is.
When I said this was "Supernatural," it's "Natural" in a "Super" way....this absolutely conforms to any physics model you choose to compare it to....it's totally natural to move your wrists/hands/forearms to hammer a nail, throw a dart and swing a golf club IF YOU TRAIN YOURSELF THIS WAY.....we were NOT put on earth to play these games, so what's "Natural" must have some conscious training.
"In pool, if it "feels" right, it's probably wrong"......or everyone would be able to do it.