Hard Times North v South

fast&loose designs

fast&loose designs

Chris Santana
Silver Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
831
Points
28
Hey all. So ever since I've been playing at Hard Times Bellflower (been only about 8 years off and on now) I've heard talks of getting both Sacramento and Bellflower Hard Times to match up their best players in a North v South type tournament or competition.

What I keep hearing is that Bellflower (which is near Los Angeles) has a larger pool of players, which is true for the professional end. However, if the competition was based ONLY on amateurs, I feel that the event could bring TONS of action.

What I am imagining is a Mosconi Cup type of event, in which each side puts up their best 5-7 amateur players and go at it over 2 days on possibly 2 tables, broadcast live. Just like MC, there are doubles as well as singles and one team match.

Each year, one side will travel to the other. Each pool hall will put up a certain amount of cash, say $1k. With some sponsorship, prize money could be about $3k per team (totally hypothetical - I think each player needs to be able to win at least $400 on winning team). The benefit to traveling is that the visiting team is paid at least $100 per person by the home team for traveling expenses. This way, there is less bickering. But if you think about it, traveling with a bunch of your buddies to go battle a rival team about 9 hours away on a weekend trip seems pretty awesome to me.

What do you all think? We already have a Jay Swanson tournament (founder of Hard Times), so maybe call it the Hard Times Cup, California Cup, or something along those lines. Let's get this thing started - Cali could use the action!
 
SkyscraperChris said:
Hey all. So ever since I've been playing at Hard Times Bellflower (been only about 8 years off and on now) I've heard talks of getting both Sacramento and Bellflower Hard Times to match up their best players in a North v South type tournament or competition.

What I keep hearing is that Bellflower (which is near Los Angeles) has a larger pool of players, which is true for the professional end. However, if the competition was based ONLY on amateurs, I feel that the event could bring TONS of action.

What I am imagining is a Mosconi Cup type of event, in which each side puts up their best 5-7 amateur players and go at it over 2 days on possibly 2 tables, broadcast live. Just like MC, there are doubles as well as singles and one team match.

Each year, one side will travel to the other. Each pool hall will put up a certain amount of cash, say $1k. With some sponsorship, prize money could be about $3k per team (totally hypothetical - I think each player needs to be able to win at least $400 on winning team). The benefit to traveling is that the visiting team is paid at least $100 per person by the home team for traveling expenses. This way, there is less bickering. But if you think about it, traveling with a bunch of your buddies to go battle a rival team about 9 hours away on a weekend trip seems pretty awesome to me.

What do you all think? We already have a Jay Swanson tournament (founder of Hard Times), so maybe call it the Hard Times Cup, California Cup, or something along those lines. Let's get this thing started - Cali could use the action!
Click to expand...

I like it!!!!!
 
Unlike the Mosconi Cup, you could use the weekly tournaments at each location to rank the players and they would be selected to the team based on performance. What a novel idea!
 
If it's in Sacto, I'll come to watch!!
 
rexus31 said:
Unlike the Mosconi Cup, you could use the weekly tournaments at each location to rank the players and they would be selected to the team based on performance. What a novel idea!
Click to expand...

Exactly. I would say teammates have to qualify, based on level 13s and below. After maybe 12 weeks, each pool hall will choose from that pool of 12 winners the 5-7 that they want to have represent their hall. Of course, they will likely choose the higher level players, but at least the other side will know that the player wasn't just chosen at random, and that he/she won't be underrated.
 
Just put up Louis, Oscar and Ernesto and let them find there 3. Amar and who else
 
I tend to agree with Chris, amateur only would be the way to go and a way of rewarding the local amateurs that frequent the room and support the weekly tournaments. That being said, there could be a Pro "Captain" or "Coach" per team.
 
Tony Torres and I had been talking about this about 2 years ago and so were a few other people in the rooms. We agreed that the talent pool in the South was far larger than in the North, which made the idea of an all out North/South clash of many players somewhat difficult.

However, the 'team' idea works, I think. Like the best 4 or 5 players from both regions. I would definitely support and promote this.

Two things to consider: Timing and player finances

- There's the 'West Coast Swing' during summertime:
Cole Dickson
West Coast Challenge
Hard Times 10-Ball
BCA Nationals

- And now there's another 'Winter' swing which seems to be evolving...
Swanee
Chet Itow
Chuck Markulis
US Bar Table Championships

There's a new tournament forming also, which John Bertone and I are working on, will piggyback the 'Winter' Swing in 2014 - (More on this soon).

One thing's for sure, these tournaments and swings would be great to promote the North/South Clash, but when do you propose it takes place and how should it be funded? Should players fund themselves? For players to fund themselves for yet another event in California, may very well be stretching things a little.

An event like this could be something special - Sort of like the Mosconi Event, possibly sponsored by someone big, which carries a lot of prestige. Of anybody out there Chris, you are definitely capable of presenting great imagery and promotional tools for the event. Maybe it's time for us to sell this imagery to some larger sponsors to actually fund the event.

I guess I'm being the devil's advocate and these are just my thoughts.
 
A great idea with the exception of how do you determine and agree to who qualifies as an ametuer as apposed to a pro or pro caliber? If you can come to and agreement on the player calipers between the 2 locations I think it is a great idea.

In addition Hard Times in Bellflower was such a great room when I lived in Cali in the late 80's early 90's that I would travel there sometimes more than once a week from Riverside. I really miss California and all the nice pool rooms.

Kevin
 
POVPOOL said:
Tony Torres and I had been talking about this about 2 years ago and so were a few other people in the rooms. We agreed that the talent pool in the South was far larger than in the North, which made the idea of an all out North/South clash of many players somewhat difficult.

However, the 'team' idea works, I think. Like the best 4 or 5 players from both regions. I would definitely support and promote this.

Two things to consider: Timing and player finances

- There's the 'West Coast Swing' during summertime:
Cole Dickson
West Coast Challenge
Hard Times 10-Ball
BCA Nationals

- And now there's another 'Winter' swing which seems to be evolving...
Swanee
Chet Itow
Chuck Markulis
US Bar Table Championships

There's a new tournament forming also, which John Bertone and I are working on, will piggyback the 'Winter' Swing in 2014 - (More on this soon).

One thing's for sure, these tournaments and swings would be great to promote the North/South Clash, but when do you propose it takes place and how should it be funded? Should players fund themselves? For players to fund themselves for yet another event in California, may very well be stretching things a little.

An event like this could be something special - Sort of like the Mosconi Event, possibly sponsored by someone big, which carries a lot of prestige. Of anybody out there Chris, you are definitely capable of presenting great imagery and promotional tools for the event. Maybe it's time for us to sell this imagery to some larger sponsors to actually fund the event.

I guess I'm being the devil's advocate and these are just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

I understand that there are lots of events held in Cali during those times you specified; however, not all players, especially the amateurs, make it out to even 50% of these events.

I would suggest that players be backed by their room - maybe they can even be sponsored personally by local cuemakers or other small billiard company. To be honest, I think that being picked to represent your pool room at a prestegious event would make many want to play no matter what - even if they had to pay their own way. Maybe some funding for the caah by each room can be raised throughout the year by taking a small portion of their weekly green fees and putting it into a savings.
 
skyscraperchris said:
hey all. So ever since i've been playing at hard times bellflower (been only about 8 years off and on now) i've heard talks of getting both sacramento and bellflower hard times to match up their best players in a north v south type tournament or competition.

What i keep hearing is that bellflower (which is near los angeles) has a larger pool of players, which is true for the professional end. However, if the competition was based only on amateurs, i feel that the event could bring tons of action.

What i am imagining is a mosconi cup type of event, in which each side puts up their best 5-7 amateur players and go at it over 2 days on possibly 2 tables, broadcast live. Just like mc, there are doubles as well as singles and one team match.

Each year, one side will travel to the other. Each pool hall will put up a certain amount of cash, say $1k. With some sponsorship, prize money could be about $3k per team (totally hypothetical - i think each player needs to be able to win at least $400 on winning team). The benefit to traveling is that the visiting team is paid at least $100 per person by the home team for traveling expenses. This way, there is less bickering. But if you think about it, traveling with a bunch of your buddies to go battle a rival team about 9 hours away on a weekend trip seems pretty awesome to me.

What do you all think? We already have a jay swanson tournament (founder of hard times), so maybe call it the hard times cup, california cup, or something along those lines. Let's get this thing started - cali could use the action!
Click to expand...

...................in!

EDIT: Just saw the "only amateurs" thing. OUT!

This is a major negative in the sport of billiards, play "too good" and you can't play anymore.

How about it's just the best players. Period.
 
Last edited:
CrownCityCorey said:
...................in!

EDIT: Just saw the "only amateurs" thing. OUT!

This is a major negative in the sport of billiards, play "too good" and you can't play anymore.

How about it's just the best players. Period.
Click to expand...

Haha, merely suggestions at this point. If HT Sacramento had enough pros, then sure, but it seems as though they don't.
 
CrownCityCorey said:
...................in!

EDIT: Just saw the "only amateurs" thing. OUT!

This is a major negative in the sport of billiards, play "too good" and you can't play anymore.

How about it's just the best players. Period.
Click to expand...

you may just qualify
 
SkyscraperChris said:
Hey all. So ever since I've been playing at Hard Times Bellflower (been only about 8 years off and on now) I've heard talks of getting both Sacramento and Bellflower Hard Times to match up their best players in a North v South type tournament or competition.

What I keep hearing is that Bellflower (which is near Los Angeles) has a larger pool of players, which is true for the professional end. However, if the competition was based ONLY on amateurs, I feel that the event could bring TONS of action.

What I am imagining is a Mosconi Cup type of event, in which each side puts up their best 5-7 amateur players and go at it over 2 days on possibly 2 tables, broadcast live. Just like MC, there are doubles as well as singles and one team match.

Each year, one side will travel to the other. Each pool hall will put up a certain amount of cash, say $1k. With some sponsorship, prize money could be about $3k per team (totally hypothetical - I think each player needs to be able to win at least $400 on winning team). The benefit to traveling is that the visiting team is paid at least $100 per person by the home team for traveling expenses. This way, there is less bickering. But if you think about it, traveling with a bunch of your buddies to go battle a rival team about 9 hours away on a weekend trip seems pretty awesome to me.

What do you all think? We already have a Jay Swanson tournament (founder of Hard Times), so maybe call it the Hard Times Cup, California Cup, or something along those lines. Let's get this thing started - Cali could use the action!
Click to expand...

Chuck Markulis was the founder of Hard Times and his memorial event is held each year at the Sacramento location. The Jay Swanson memorial event was created by Mark Griffin and held each year in Southern California.

I do like the idea of a North vs. South annual event (The California Cup). I think you can find three or four good players in each area with no problem.
 
Last edited:
jay helfert said:
Chuck Markulis was the founder of Hard Times and his memorial event is held each year at the Sacramento location. The Jay Swanson memorial event was created by Mark Griffin and held each year in Southern California.
Click to expand...

Oops my bad! Haven't made it out yet to the Chuck tourney, really need to sometime
 
I think it's a great idea. I know a lot of people travel up from the South for the Chuck tournament every year. You could set up qualifying mini tournaments with a point system earned based on placement in the tournaments to find your qualifiers for the main event.
 
What if the teams were 6 players?

4 pros and 2 shortstops or semi's.

They would receive the best coaching and training from their teammates in order to develop their skills and it would add great contrast to the competition itself.

<<This thread has unofficially become a think-tank for the North/South Clash!>>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top