Has Alex accomplished more than Efren at his age?

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Efren didn't start winning big tourney's till his 30's and lost alot to Sigel

Alex has pretty much won everything by the same age that Efren was getting started

what say you?
 
Absolutely. Alex is a monster who has done it all. World Championship, US OPEN champ, 2nd place in the 2000 Derby City One Pocket (which might as well be "world"). One of my favorite players.
 
It's an unfair comparison. Efren didn't come to the USA until he was already 32 years old. From most accounts by people who knew him before, his best days at Rotation and 9-Ball were when he was in his 20's.

He certainly would have won more tournaments if he had come over here sooner. Sigel might have got a good roll, that Efren wasn't able to come any earlier. All I know is that when he arrived, HE was the monster!
 
smashmouth said:
Efren didn't start winning big tourney's till his 30's and lost alot to Sigel

Alex has pretty much won everything by the same age that Efren was getting started

what say you?

From the perspective of the US, certainly. Efren claimed he played his best PRIOR to his arrival in the US tho...:eek:

And, what do you mean by 'accomplished more'(?)...you know, the belt just holds up your pants!!
 
Efren has also stated in interviews that he wasn't really a good tournament player (by his own standards) when he first came over here! Ironically, it wasn't until he had been over here for a while and really started focusing more on tournaments instead of just gambling, that he really started dominating the tournament scene as well.
 
jay helfert said:
It's an unfair comparison. Efren didn't come to the USA until he was already 32 years old. From most accounts by people who knew him before, his best days at Rotation and 9-Ball were when he was in his 20's.

He certainly would have won more tournaments if he had come over here sooner. Sigel might have got a good roll, that Efren wasn't able to come any earlier. All I know is that when he arrived, HE was the monster!

Jay, that was an accurate reply and assessment of Efren.

During my college days when I was still playing Efren, his game was absolutely phenomenal!! Simply amazing that he had to switch disciplines so he can gamble and earn a living. Nobody wanted to gamble with him anymore in rotation from the 60's to the 70's; he was forced to learn three cushion or billiards as they call it here in the western hemisphere.

He even retired at least a player or two that I know of because he beat them so bad they lost a lot of face, and losing face back home is a big thing!!

I have seen Sigel, Rempe, Incardona and a lot of other road players and champions play and they pale in comparison to Efren's skill and knowledge of the game.

I would state unequivocally that if Efren was able to come here during the 70's (his peak years) he would have changed pool history books dramatically as far as accomplishments in gambling and tourney plays. Although I seriously doubt that he would be joining tournaments because there be would lots of easy pickin's to be had from these unwitting "champions".

Even after he learned three cushion billiards, the games to be had were few and far between because players were already wary of him. The only player who could hang with Efren during those years was Leonardo Andam.

Andam came to Manila "undercover", so to speak, he started robbing players but he started from the third tier players and worked himself up until he was playing the first tier players. There were a couple of instances that Andam and Efren played even, but he was beaten both twice by Efren. It was close though, but for Andam, it was enough for him to back off a little. After all, he was after the money, not the glory.

You have to realize that during those years, Efren et al, were naive as to the term "champion", or "world champion". Shoot, even I never heard of the word or term "world champion" during the 70's, and I consider myself educated both in school and in the street.

Now, with Alex, when he entered the scene during the 90's, times were different, or shall I say, have changed a lot because of the advent of instant communications: cell phones, emails and what have you, that it would be really difficult to hide or disguise your speed because somebody will remember you from some place, call his buddies next state and and so on and before you know it, you've been made!!

Let me just put it this way...

"There is only one Efren Reyes!!!"

The others who came after him are all wannabes......






bayawak aka tirador
"You got the 8 for life!!!!"
 
Bayawak said:
Jay, that was an accurate reply and assessment of Efren.

During my college days when I was still playing Efren, his game was absolutely phenomenal!! Simply amazing that he had to switch disciplines so he can gamble and earn a living. Nobody wanted to gamble with him anymore in rotation from the 60's to the 70's; he was forced to learn three cushion or billiards as they call it here in the western hemisphere.

He even retired at least a player or two that I know of because he beat them so bad they lost a lot of face, and losing face back home is a big thing!!

I have seen Sigel, Rempe, Incardona and a lot of other road players and champions play and they pale in comparison to Efren's skill and knowledge of the game.

I would state unequivocally that if Efren was able to come here during the 70's (his peak years) he would have changed pool history books dramatically as far as accomplishments in gambling and tourney plays. Although I seriously doubt that he would be joining tournaments because there be would lots of easy pickin's to be had from these unwitting "champions".

Even after he learned three cushion billiards, the games to be had were few and far between because players were already wary of him. The only player who could hang with Efren during those years was Leonardo Andam.

Andam came to Manila "undercover", so to speak, he started robbing players but he started from the third tier players and worked himself up until he was playing the first tier players. There were a couple of instances that Andam and Efren played even, but he was beaten both twice by Efren. It was close though, but for Andam, it was enough for him to back off a little. After all, he was after the money, not the glory.

You have to realize that during those years, Efren et al, were naive as to the term "champion", or "world champion". Shoot, even I never heard of the word or term "world champion" during the 70's, and I consider myself educated both in school and in the street.

Now, with Alex, when he entered the scene during the 90's, times were different, or shall I say, have changed a lot because of the advent of instant communications: cell phones, emails and what have you, that it would be really difficult to hide or disguise your speed because somebody will remember you from some place, call his buddies next state and and so on and before you know it, you've been made!!

Let me just put it this way...

"There is only one Efren Reyes!!!"

The others who came after him are all wannabes......






bayawak aka tirador
"You got the 8 for life!!!!"
quote "there is only one Efren Reyes"
I TOTALLY AGREE ! But not "the others who came after him are all wannabes"
There are a alot of pros that have there own style and are deadly,thats what i like about pro pool these days is anyone could beat anyone.pretty exciting shit.to have that knid of talent would be amazing.
I,myself could'nt go to many pool halls cause my head would be too BIG to get through the door.lol:D
 
smashmouth said:
Efren didn't start winning big tourney's till his 30's and lost alot to Sigel

Alex has pretty much won everything by the same age that Efren was getting started

what say you?

that's understandable. Efren went to the states and started playing there during the mid-80's, where his age is around his 30's. if he came and played in the U.S. 15 years earlier (1970s-his peak years) before the Red's tourney, that would make him atleast 18 and the story would have been different. Jay made a good assessment on saying that it is unfair to compare both phenomenal players who played in the states at a different age. this is no clear assurance that Alex could have played better than Efren or makes Alex the better player due to accomplishments during a certain age. you must not forget that it is not only about AGE + CHAMPIONSHIP, but also consider ATTENDANCE. in any case, just a food for thought, if Efren wins a lot since the 90's and nowadays despite saying he's no longer at his peak, just imagine if he were to compete during his prime. would you still bet that he wouldn't accomplish those feats at a younger age? :rolleyes:
 
Matt_24 said:
Absolutely. Alex is a monster who has done it all. World Championship, US OPEN champ, 2nd place in the 2000 Derby City One Pocket (which might as well be "world"). One of my favorite players.

Well, better yet, will Alex win 5 out of 5 Derby City One Pocket titles when he is 50 years old?
 
Efren and Alex

Humor me, when is Efren's and Alex's birthdays???

Also, from what I have seen of Efren's playing, never having seen him play in person (but I sure hope to someday), in given game siuations that Efren chooses, to me, the most logical shot for the situation. Even his famous Z shot was the absolute best shot to shoot for the situation he was faced with.

Tha amazement comes from him just being more accurate on a high level than any other one player would be. I am sure that Efren, like every other player out there, has made balls on kicks where they might have been just hoping to get a good hit, and has ended up with a safety off a kick that surprised him as well as others.

To put it simply, Efren evaluates game situations very well, he considers his choices for resulution well, he picks the most logical solution for success, and he executes that resolution on a very high level. One other thing, he has prepared himself well, by knowing every thing about the game, including rails, the proper way to hit balls, etc..

A simplier way of doing things in Pool doesn't mean it has the greatest chance of being the most successful, i.e., A 2 rail kick shot might be simplier for hitting the ball, but not for making the ball, where a 3 rail kick might be the better choice for making the ball with a higher probablility ratio.

The 'weak' spot in Efren's game, as has been stated in the past, is his break. His off and on nature on breaking has labeled him not a very good breaker, unlike Django, and is what is considered by other players when they faced with having to play Efren. But, also, Efren is very creative in his 'outs', which serves to keep him as a very dangerous player all the time.

To label him as Brilliant, I don't know, but he sure is more intelligent than he 'looks', and he sure makes good choices and his execution is 'right on'. When you redefine the standard by which the game is played, you are doing something right.

And you never hear of any player claiming to be better than Efren or wanting to play Efren 'even' .... LOL
 
Last edited:
Snapshot9 said:
Humor me, when is Efren's and Alex's birthdays???

Also, from what I have seen of Efren's playing, never having seen him play in person (but I sure hope to someday), in given game siuations that Efren chooses, to me, the most logical shot for the situation. Even his famous Z shot was the absolute best shot to shoot for the situation he was faced with.

Tha amazement comes from him just being more accurate on a high level than any other one player would be. I am sure that Efren, like every other player out there, has made balls on kicks where they might have been just hoping to get a good hit, and has ended up with a safety off a kick that surprised him as well as others.

To put it simply, Efren evaluates game situations very well, he considers his choices for resulution well, he picks the most logical solution for success, and he executes that resolution on a very high level. One other thing, he has prepared himself well, by knowing every thing about the game, including rails, the proper way to hit balls, etc..

A simplier way of doing things in Pool doesn't mean it has the greatest chance of being the most successful, i.e., A 2 rail kick shot might be simplier for hitting the ball, but not for making the ball, where a 3 rail kick might be the better choice for making the ball with a higher probablility ratio.

The 'weak' spot in Efren's game, as has been stated in the past, is his break. His off and on nature on breaking has labeled him not a very good breaker, unlike Django, and is what is considered by other players when they faced with having to play Efren. But, also, Efren is very creative in his 'outs', which serves to keep him as a very dangerous player all the time.

To label him as Brilliant, I don't know, but he sure is more intelligent than he 'looks', and he sure makes good choices and his execution is 'right on'. When you redefine the standard by which the game is played, you are doing something right.

And you never hear of any player claiming to be better than Efren or wanting to play Efren 'even' .... LOL

Snapshot, you hit the nail right on the head!!! Hence, my prediction that those who follows Efren are wannabes!!












bayawak aka tirador
"You got the 8 for life"!!!!
 
Matt_24 said:
Absolutely. Alex is a monster who has done it all. World Championship, US OPEN champ, 2nd place in the 2000 Derby City One Pocket (which might as well be "world"). One of my favorite players.

Yo Matt, where you hanging out now? You still go to Eddie's? We need to match up again when you get the chance, ok?















bayawak aka tirador
"You got the 8 for life"!!!
 
Bayawak said:
Yo Matt, where you hanging out now? You still go to Eddie's? We need to match up again when you get the chance, ok?
bayawak aka tirador
"You got the 8 for life"!!!

I feel a ring game coming up!:D
 
Sprite said:
I didn't know that. Now i know. Thanks.;)

Efren didn't even come to the USA until he was in his 30's, so obviously there was no way he could win tournaments here if he was still half a world away :rolleyes:
 
I did not have a chance to see Efren was at his 30's. So I would like to know your ideas about Efren v.s Sigel? Did they ever meet each other in any where before the IPT?
Also, does any body know whether Efren has ever played snooker?
Thanks

PS: To all that are worry about Efren, he is doing fine now. He just came to my country to play for two days during last week (from 7/4 to 7/5 I believe). He said that he still had 2 big tournaments this year to go, one in Europe in August and the other is the US Open in September. He also said he did not think of retire yet because he think that he still can play pretty well.
 
haminh said:
I did not have a chance to see Efren was at his 30's. So I would like to know your ideas about Efren v.s Sigel? Did they ever meet each other in any where before the IPT?
Also, does any body know whether Efren has ever played snooker?
Thanks

PS: To all that are worry about Efren, he is doing fine now. He just came to my country to play for two days during last week (from 7/4 to 7/5 I believe). He said that he still had 2 big tournaments this year to go, one in Europe in August and the other is the US Open in September. He also said he did not think of retire yet because he think that he still can play pretty well.

They played several times before Sigel retired. And Sigel got the best of it overall. Efren didn't start winning 9-ball torunaments again until the early 90's. His break was too weak. Actually Nick, Buddy and Sigel all had winning records against Efren back then. Earl had more problems with Efren then they did.

Efren's big success over here really happened in the last 15-18 years, when he emerged as the best One Pocket player. Interestingly enough, he didn't win many One Pocket tournaments either at that time. Of course, he didn't enter too many. But he established himself as the best player for the money by the early 90's.

Efren won more money gambling back then, then he did in tourneys. His tourney record was spotty, with only two or three big wins prior to 1993. He lost in several final matches, mostly to the above four players. And Jimmy Rempe beat him in the finals at Resorts in 1987 for some big money. That one paid 35K, bigger than most tournaments today. Before the finals, Efren was ready to make a deal, since second only paid 13K plus change, a big difference. Jimmy normally would do this in a second, but this time he refused, saying "Every time I make a deal, I lose". Then he played great and won going away.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
Efren didn't even come to the USA until he was in his 30's, so obviously there was no way he could win tournaments here if he was still half a world away :rolleyes:

how ignorance killed the cat ! :rolleyes:
 
Back
Top