Has anyone been able to host a raffle elsewhere? If not, and there's demand, I can set one up within a day or two.

Would you like to see the return of cue raffles hosted elsewhere?

  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .
QShark

QShark

Suspected Scammer
I LOVED playing in raffles on AZ back in the day. Has anyone been able to setup a new place for raffles? If not, and with enough interest, I can set one up on Reddit within a day or two and make it private and visible to only explicitly approved members of the sub. Let me know and I'll do it....FAST. Be sure to VOTE Yes or No.
 
I thought they got banned here after some quarrel with the owner of Cue Components. It was quite a while ago so maybe my memory is less than accurate.
 
Quesports said:
I thought they got banned here after some quarrel with the owner of Cue Components. It was quite a while ago so maybe my memory is less than accurate.
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That did happen, though I'm not sure what the final straw was other than Mike Howerton stopped allowing them. Legality may have been some of it, though I can't imagine why AZB would be liable for anything. Legally I think a portion of profits has to go to charity, but then who is to say if there was any profit on some of the raffles. I ran raffles here regularly and some I made a little profit on, some I did not. Spot prices on some of them seemed a bit high but based on the actual value of the item, but in general it was a way to have a chance at winning an item at a small fraction of it's actual value. The raffles were quite popular here. They were abused to a degree as well. There was a cuemaker here raffling of custom cues before they were built, on the premise you could win the cue then have a say in certain things, wrap, veneer colors, weight, etc,,,,,, but he got greedy and ended up selling a bunch of cues he never delivered, but then other people did it right. Tommy1351 was a regular raffle host as well as distributer for Jack Madden cues and always ran clean and fair raffles with nice products, for a profit no doubt, but he was also confined to a wheel chair and depended on that income to a degree. Raffles are what you make them.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I thought they were banned here because most of them are illegal. Do they just fly under the radar on FB?
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I think they are in a grey area. They generally call them razzes on FB. I've won a few things from a few different groups. As usual do your homework there are scammers out there. I've won 5 cues, 3 cases and a shaft.
 
TrxR said:
I think they are in a grey area. They generally call them razzes on FB. I've won a few things from a few different groups. As usual do your homework there are scammers out there. I've won 5 cues, 3 cases and a shaft.
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Well damn, I guess you want them to return. That’s a hell of a win streak!

Captains for Clean Water and the CCA raffle off a boat a couple times a year. Freaking amazing boats too. The one I just did was for a 25’ Grady White bay boat. I kick $500 each time for tickets and I’ve never won squat. But the difference here is the raffle money goes to a great cause. Is that the same with the cue raffles or is someone just making a buck?
 
I liked the raffles too! I won my African Blackwood Runde from a raffle a few years ago. That might just be the only thing I’ve ever won.
 
Z-Nole said:
Well damn, I guess you want them to return. That’s a hell of a win streak!

Captains for Clean Water and the CCA raffle off a boat a couple times a year. Freaking amazing boats too. The one I just did was for a 25’ Grady White bay boat. I kick $500 each time for tickets and I’ve never won squat. But the difference here is the raffle money goes to a great cause. Is that the same with the cue raffles or is someone just making a buck?
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There was some of both, as I mentioned in my earlier post. The were a few of us who regularly had product up for raffle, me, Tommy1351, Rossaroni, and the infamous Mr Peppers I mentioned before. There were others I don't remember who tried on occasion but they were obviously way off the mark on spot prices and not very successful. You can simply multiply the spot prices by the number of spots offered to determine the income from the raffle and easily be able to tell when people were gouging. The members were smart enough not to support that business model so those guys didn't last long. Trying to raffle off a Predator break cue with 56 spots for 20 bucks a spot and things like that, obviously out of line and the members new it so most didn't participate. Myself, Tommy1351, and Rossaroni always ran fair and popular raffles. We also always bought spots from each other as well. I won several times over a couple years or so of doing it.

The raffles were a lot of fun. I remember I won "Winning One Pocket" 1st edition in great condition, a very nice Jerry Olivier cue with a bunch of weird inlays in it I never could figure out, Jerry told me he designed it while in the hospital on meds and built it when he recovered, a Mike Capone merry widow cue. that had a few minor nicks in it and a very dirty wrap, but spots were cheap and I bought a couple, and won it, so I sent it to Mike and had him rewrap it for $40. when I received it back it had a new wrap and complete fresh coat of clear on it, looked brand new, I called him as well and said hey pard how much more for the refinish? His answer was free, said the finish was his advertisement and he just couldn't let it go back in public with player nicks in it,,,,,,,, nice guy. The other thing I can think of because it's right beside me, a 3x5 Instroke Buffalo leather case that I still use. Yeah, raffles were fun, and harmless.
 
Thanks for the great info guys! I will check out FB to see what they've got going on and how they're run. I would probably limit spots to 26, as we would use the red Powerball to determine the winner. The cue up for raffle must be sent to a 3rd trusted person (escrow) to not only ensure it's in the condition the owner says, but also to give it a fair value.

A $750 cue would equate to ~$29 per ticket. There would also be a a max # of tickets per person, and a 15 participant minimum for it to run that week.

If no Wednesday PB winner, it rolls to Saturday, etc. until someone wins

Just wanted to get people's thoughts.

Thank you!
 
I did some research on raffles, you can't even hold a charity one legally, at least in MA. You need to be registered as some nonprofit charity organization to do them. Not one I have seen actually got into an issue doing them, in fact a few that I was at for fundrasiers for kids pool events had police people attending and nothing was said.
 
I don't remember if Joe at Cue Components was the one who dropped the dime or just the one suspected. It doesn't matter, when you are committing a federal crime and get a cease and desist letter you cease and desist! Unless I am mistaken Mike got just such a letter and the raffles disappeared. I had privately warned Mike some time before that the interstate raffles by individuals were illegal. Nonprofits are more of a grey area but I think being documented as a charity is a must.

The Feds have seen all of the dodges trying to skirt interstate gambling laws many times. The private raffles are fun. They are also a violation of federal law unless you do them exclusively in one state, then you may run afoul of other laws, I don't know. All it takes is one pissed off person, maybe a sore loser or a winner that got junk instead of what was advertised or nothing at all, then you have trouble on your hands. Secrecy goes a long way towards proving you knowingly engaged in illegal activity.

Hu
 
QShark said:
... A $750 cue would equate to ~$29 per ticket. There would also be a a max # of tickets per person, and a 15 participant minimum for it to run that week.
...
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Ask your tax attorney, but at that level you will need to generate a 1099 for the winner. Otherwise, you personally are liable for the taxes if the IRS comes knocking. Also, as has been pointed out, raffles by individuals are probably illegal in most situations.

As for charity.... At one BCA trade show in Las Vegas a table company had donated a nice table to be raffled off to support the Juniors (college scholarships, I think). They were shut down. The only gambling allowed in casinos are games the gaming commission approves of. I've got no idea how they can do cue raffles at the tournaments.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Ask your tax attorney, but at that level you will need to generate a 1099 for the winner. Otherwise, you personally are liable for the taxes if the IRS comes knocking. Also, as has been pointed out, raffles by individuals are probably illegal in most situations.

As for charity.... At one BCA trade show in Las Vegas a table company had donated a nice table to be raffled off to support the Juniors (college scholarships, I think). They were shut down. The only gambling allowed in casinos are games the gaming commission approves of. I've got no idea how they can do cue raffles at the tournaments.
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The cue raffles are about as legal as the calcuttas. It's all a bit silly IMHO but the laws were done to prevent people like bookie from taking advantage of people, gambling gets treated as a valid addiction like drugs, and we have laws about drugs.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Ask your tax attorney, but at that level you will need to generate a 1099 for the winner. Otherwise, you personally are liable for the taxes if the IRS comes knocking. Also, as has been pointed out, raffles by individuals are probably illegal in most situations.

As for charity.... At one BCA trade show in Las Vegas a table company had donated a nice table to be raffled off to support the Juniors (college scholarships, I think). They were shut down. The only gambling allowed in casinos are games the gaming commission approves of. I've got no idea how they can do cue raffles at the tournaments.
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I've bought raffle tickets for boats, shotguns, pistols, pool cues, little bit of everything over the years and never once ever heard of anyone getting 1099's.
 
hang-the-9 said:
The cue raffles are about as legal as the calcuttas. It's all a bit silly IMHO but the laws were done to prevent people like bookie from taking advantage of people, gambling gets treated as a valid addiction like drugs, and we have laws about drugs.
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Calcuttas are legal in my state, within guidelines. One rule, the calcutta pool can't be used for anything else. People have tried to take a cut of the calcutta pool to pay tourney directors for example, illegal. Some have tried to add part of the calcutta fund to the purse or for greens fees, also illegal. The calcutta pool can not be diverted to anything else, not one penny of it.

The gambling commission oversees calcuttas and the casinos control the gambling commission even though it is supposed to be the other way around. Even things like church bingo were shut down when the casinos came in. Almost all poker tournaments too.

I think it is just a matter of time before calcuttas are shut down in my state. The casinos tolerate a few hundred dollars and there are calcuttas at events the politicians attend like golf tournaments. However, I don't think John Doe gambling over a hundred thousand in a calcutta was ever envisioned. The $100,000 plus calcuttas on pool tournaments are going to attract attention and be shut down I suspect, victims of their own success.

One thing, wagering between competitors is legal in my state, a direct result of judges and politicians getting caught, gambling isn't. Our gambling laws are funny to read. Gambling is illegal. Gambling at a casino is defined as not gambling, the wording was just that bad when I read the laws a few years back!

Gambling between players is legal. Gambling on the rail or between players and rail is illegal. The laws are ridiculous but they are the law.

The laws concerning interstate gambling are what shut down internet poker and they shut down interstate raffles too. They may not notice small things but if somebody drops a dime then you get a cease and desist letter. Ignore that letter at your peril, they will come with fines, maybe bracelets!

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
-- snip ---

One thing, wagering between competitors is legal in my state, a direct result of judges and politicians getting caught, gambling isn't. Our gambling laws are funny to read. Gambling is illegal. Gambling at a casino is defined as not gambling, the wording was just that bad when I read the laws a few years back!

Gambling between players is legal. Gambling on the rail or between players and rail is illegal. The laws are ridiculous but they are the law.
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This ruling is because of the difference between gambling and skilled wagering. If you are controlling the outcome through skill, you are not "gambling" as the government defines it. If you say "I get $10 I can throw this ball 100 feet" you are putting your own skill on the line. If you say, "I bet the Rangers score 4 goals", you are not in any way part of the competition or outcome. If you bet a guy $50 you will beat him in a set of 9 ball you are wagering on your skill and actions, if your buddy Bob sitting at the bar bets the bartender you will beat the guy, that is the illegal gambling.

I think this law came about from places like Chuck E Cheese where you play games or chance to get tickets for prizes. That is technically gambling but the argument was that knowing when to hit the button to stop the light or tossing a ball into a hole for points was skill based not just all luck based, thus was not "gambling".
 
hang-the-9 said:
This ruling is because of the difference between gambling and skilled wagering. If you are controlling the outcome through skill, you are not "gambling" as the government defines it. If you say "I get $10 I can throw this ball 100 feet" you are putting your own skill on the line. If you say, "I bet the Rangers score 4 goals", you are not in any way part of the competition or outcome. If you bet a guy $50 you will beat him in a set of 9 ball you are wagering on your skill and actions, if your buddy Bob sitting at the bar bets the bartender you will beat the guy, that is the illegal gambling.

I think this law came about from places like Chuck E Cheese where you play games or chance to get tickets for prizes. That is technically gambling but the argument was that knowing when to hit the button to stop the light or tossing a ball into a hole for points was skill based not just all luck based, thus was not "gambling".
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Ah, but gambling on a 20 or 25 hole pinball machine was and is gambling despite the large element of skill involved to be successful.

Why are people allowed to bet on horse racing and Jai Alai which they have no control of and not most sports?

In my state, high ranking officials were wagering on their golf games with others in the same foursome, illegal gambling as the laws were at the time. Four were charged, huge bad publicity and a huge stink! That particular incident was the trigger to rewriting the state laws so that wagering and gambling were defined pretty much as you state.

Pool was just caught up in the tide when they legalized gambling on golf within your group of players. Our gambling laws are still a quagmire that seem to contradict themselves all over the place. Bottom line, money and power walks, the rest of us just follow along.

Hu
 
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