Has the world gone to flipping?

J&D CUSTOMS

J&D CUSTOMS

JL Cues
Silver Member
I ask this with the upmost respect to all cue dealers. Does anyone buy cue to shoot with any more or is it all about the flavor of the month?

What I mean is , seems like many of the makers are using flippers to push their cues, get them in the limelight, and talk about how great this person is and that person is with building.

But if you follow the trend, it changes from week to week, month to month on who the god like builder is at the time. This is an unfortunate turn of events for many involved in the cue world, IMHO.

I feel this takes away from the personability, interactions, between the cue builders who put their heart and soul into builds from the customer themselves. Don't you? Not to mention the markup that is there.

I know this sounds evil towards those who sell cues, but it is more evil I think towards the builders all over the US and abroad that have to pimp there cues out just to get sales or exposure. If you are not giving your cues away or selling them at such deep discounts for this service it seems like you are on the back burner and way out of the lime light.

I have tried this , I admit , using folks who have wanted to push my cues and promising the world in return for me with all they will do for my business. It's a joke, trust me. Very few folks are out to help anyone in this business unless it makes them as much or more than the actual builder of the cues they are selling. Some are better than others but I feel the hype all ruins the market and really does hurt the little guys in their private shops doing what they love to do,BUILD CUES.

I think their are many builders right here on the forum that build one hell of a cue for the money they are asking. And they do not seem to get the credit they deserve for all the hard work they do! My hats off to all who turn a lathe on, throw some sawdust in the air for the love of building and the game! You guys are all top notch in my book fella's! Build on and don't sell yourselves out for the mighty dollar, I won't! I will always offer the best cue I can produce with the best tools and materials I can for the best price, no one will buy me or my name!!!!!

Thanx for the time to read,
Jim Lee
 
Hey Jim,

Could you give us a few examples of what you are speaking of? Also, do you believe there is a difference between Cue Dealers and "flippers"?

Thanks,
 
Jim,

When I opened and read your OP last night, it was at the bottom of the page with ZERO replies. Now this morning, you have every bit of TWO replies. When I saw the title and read the content of your post, I would have sworn that you would have had a few dozen replies by now. Maybe the silence is some sort of an admission of guilt???

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
Jim,

When I opened and read your OP last night, it was at the bottom of the page with ZERO replies. Now this morning, you have every bit of TWO replies. When I saw the title and read the content of your post, I would have sworn that you would have had a few dozen replies by now. Maybe the silence is some sort of an admission of guilt???

Maniac
Click to expand...
too hot a potato???? :wink:
 
Maniac said:
Jim,

When I opened and read your OP last night, it was at the bottom of the page with ZERO replies. Now this morning, you have every bit of TWO replies. When I saw the title and read the content of your post, I would have sworn that you would have had a few dozen replies by now. Maybe the silence is some sort of an admission of guilt???

Maniac
Click to expand...

Perhaps the readership, when they see the title of this thread, are thinking that the OP's use of the word "flipping" means flipping a coin vs. lagging (to determine who breaks). And they're probably thinking, "oh no, not another league-bashing thread!" and subsequently don't even bother reading it.

:D

-Sean
 
Hey Jim,

Could you give us a few examples of what you are speaking of? Also, do you believe there is a difference between Cue Dealers and "flippers"?

Thanks


Sure Jamie. Cue dealers are Joss,Meucci,Schon, ect. that have the interest in their product and promote them with the upmost confidence and respect. They put out and promote a fine product with the customer in top priority.
So yes, I think their is a difference between dealers and "flippers".

Thanx for the input,
Jim Lee
 
Maniac said:
Jim,

When I opened and read your OP last night, it was at the bottom of the page with ZERO replies. Now this morning, you have every bit of TWO replies. When I saw the title and read the content of your post, I would have sworn that you would have had a few dozen replies by now. Maybe the silence is some sort of an admission of guilt???

Maniac
Click to expand...


Just may be of some sort. Not for me to say!
 
J&D CUSTOMS said:
Sure Jamie. Cue dealers are Joss,Meucci,Schon, ect. that have the interest in their product and promote them with the upmost confidence and respect. They put out and promote a fine product with the customer in top priority.
So yes, I think their is a difference between dealers and "flippers".

Thanx for the input,
Jim Lee
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I understand Jim. Are you speaking of the production cue manufacturers, or the dealers that sell the manufacturers' cues?

In other words, are you referring to the production cue manufacturers (i.e.,Joss, Meucci, Schon) as Cue Dealers, and companies like Pool Dawg and Seyberts that sell their cues as flippers?
 
On the same track, how many people who buy cues in the FS section here get them for collecting vs playing vs investment/speculation? After all, if pool's popularity goes up and down, so do the cue values, right?
 
I'm wondering if you meant a particular dealer asking people to write reviews about a specific low-volume manufacturer or custom cue maker in order to push sales on those cues or cases.
 
No Jamie, I mean dealers. Those who sell the cues for the MSRP. No hype, bsing, just sales. The ones here on the forum know exactly what I mean.
The flippers, ones who get a cue or cues, tells every one it is the greatest cue that they have ever had in their hands and plays like a true extension of their own hand, then 2 days later , it is for sale.
Flippers, who talk up certain makers just because they have such cuemakers cues just to build artificial value to such cues to capitalize on money.
Flippers, who talk about how great the cue hits and sell it EVEN BEFORE they have ever felt it in their hands. I call this presold hype.
Flippers, who only promote those who give them deep discounts or nearly free cues just so such flippers will advertise their cues only to find out the market has changed and such flippers drop the maker like a hot rock to promote the next flavor of the month.

Cues should be based on quality , craftsmanship, and playability, not just a hyped up name. How many folks buy a cue just because such and such makers names on it.
Don't get me wrong, their are folks selling very nice and even artistic cues that are well worth the money they get. BUT, they have also spent years gaining the experience,tooling, and constuction technichs to demand said prices.
While others have not and use flippers and freebies to pump up their values.
This is just me expressing what I have seen, especially as of late , in the cue world. Many may not agree, many may agree. That is why it is an opinion!
 
Ghosst said:
I'm wondering if you meant a particular dealer asking people to write reviews about a specific low-volume manufacturer or custom cue maker in order to push sales on those cues or cases.
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No Ghost, not any one in particular, just the cue world as I see it as of late. Not even meaning me. I am doing fine, just meaning it as a whole. Nothing personal or directed to any specific person or maker. Just a discusion and opinion.
 
There is a reason people get on a particular cue maker, and promote their cues.....They do excellent work and there is value in their work. Others that don't get the attention, not so much.
 
J&D CUSTOMS said:
No Jamie, I mean dealers. Those who sell the cues for the MSRP. No hype, bsing, just sales. The ones here on the forum know exactly what I mean.
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Jim,

In regards to the Joss, Meucci, Schon dealers, I do not know any of them selling for MSRP. You can buy those cues all day long at 30% off up to as much as 50%+ off. So I'm still confused about this.

In regards to flippers (BTW, I do not consider myself a flipper, others may), I agree about the "dumping" of cues at or below wholesale to move out inventory. That has always been something I have avoided. I never want to devalue a cuemakers product.... it is not good for anyone, even the person buying at the discount.
 
hangemhigh said:
There is a reason people get on a particular cue maker, and promote their cues.....They do excellent work and there is value in their work. Others that don't get the attention, not so much.
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I would agree to that in many cases Tommy. Others , not so much. Some are more hype than quality!
 
LeagueShirts said:
On the same track, how many people who buy cues in the FS section here get them for collecting vs playing vs investment/speculation? After all, if pool's popularity goes up and down, so do the cue values, right?
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I bought my Josey from this site. Trust me, it's very much my main playing cue. It now carries "battle scars"...but those didn't hurt it's play, only it's looks.

(edit) The above wasn't quite clear. I bought the cue through the for sale section here...a notice placed by "skins". But I very much bought the cue directly from Josey...
 
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Mr. Lee

Let identify on who a cue flipper is- Strictly my opinion- and forgive me if I make some general assumptions because I probably fall into that economic demographic. Look I don’t have the income to come on AZ and pick up a Searing, Szamboti, Showman etc. I would love to have one. But as an alternative to selling my kidney or something like that, I acquire cues that I can personally afford. For me those are cues in the $500-$2500 range. But the market is huge in that price range. I have a lot to choose from. Now instead of having a closet full of cues, and because I’m not a collector of cues, it just makes sense for me to come on AZ and post “Want to sell…” or “Looking to Trade…” and keep my collection manageable.

I don’t think a cue dealer is a flipper. Now if a dealer approached you and said; “Build me a bunch of cues for price $X.XX and I’ll “promote” and sell your cues on the internet, my shop, pool hall at a mark up. I think the builder needs to look in the mirror and check themselves and say am I building for the passion of the game or the all mighty dollar?

The dealers I see here on AZ have a lot of different cue makers to choose from. Personally I don’t see them hyping a certain cue maker. But “cue maker fan-boys” that a different story all together.

Hats off to you for building for the love of the game and the art of cue making. The “hype” of cue maker X should affect you at all.

Mike < not a flipper or a fanboy :grin:
 
I'm not sure this is some kind of orchestrated plan. It's something you see across the board at any forum , any subject matter. "Flipping" as it were , has little to do with the manufacturer and everything to do with the seller. But it only works if you can buy cheap (in this market , possible) and sell for a strong gain (in this market , not so much).

IMO , it's more of thing where some people spend more time posting than playing , get hyped themselve over the next great thing and buy it. Tell everyone one in the world how great it is until they get out of the chair and use it. Realise then that they are still the same player they were before and want thier money back.

Personally I havent seen it pushed from a the builders end unless I mis understand your post , it sounds like you feel Flipping is builder motivated ? Maybe I misunderstand the use of the term in this context.
 
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