Have Bar Box Tables Evolved?

So that was Shakiras booty. Ah ha. And Chili Palmer was Travolta. I'm a quick study. I've been enjoying Diamond tables lately, but will play on about anything. Last night was a Valley. I don't even mind stuffing quarters in. Matt D.

Yes, Shakira, because her hips don't lie :thumbup:

And yes again, Travolta (Get Shorty), my screen name goes way back to my playing days of Quake II (late '90's?). I was fairly decent at that game and I'm known to be a fairly nice guy, sometimes.

And I too will play on (most) anything. As mentioned, there are two places in town (that I know of) that have Diamonds, one is too far to drive to for lunch and the other has absolutely shitty tables, shitty service, shitty lighting, and I won't get started about the tournament director who talks shit about people while they are playing - during a tournament - he is directing! So yeah, I don't really go there. There's a bar not too far that has ok tables, I don't even know what they are but they aren't diamonds, but the closest place to me with free table time during lunch just happens to be the one with the Global's. I have 3 free nights a week to play pool and I'm on league all three nights, one bar on Wednesday has Diamonds, so I get to play on a Diamond once a session, but that doesn't stop me from playing...:thumbup:
 
Line three - (quoted and bolded above for your viewing pleasure) "Are there any debit card operated, or Samsung Pay, or other NFC mobile payment tables?"

Seems like an engineer would have been able to figure those two things out, but I digress.

You seem to fail to understand the commercial coin operated pool table industry. To most bar owners that own their own coin op pool tables, they are an unreceipted source of income, as in no one really knows how much the bring in except the owner. The last thing any owner wants is a way of calculating how much their pool tables have earned as in MOST cases its NOT going to match up with what the write down in their books. Coin operated pool tables for the most part, produce a lower cash income, but higher alchohol sales if compared to pool rooms that rely on renting their pool tables by the hour. Hourly rental pool tables for the most part average 3 players to a table, which is the limit of alcohol sales per table as well, if the pool room even sells alcohol. When you rent a pool table in a pool room for let's say $5-$8 per hour, or even higher, that means it's your table, if someone wants to play you, then you need to bring up the conversation about splitting the hourly, and howong have you already been on the clock. But maybe you just want to practice, and don't drink alcohol,.....wonder why pool halls are closing their doors?

In a bar, I can go in and if no ones on a table, I can put my money in the coin chute, drop the balls and start racking...and almost right away someone asks me if I want someone to play....and guess what, I win, he pays and racks. I can't count the times I've played all night long, until closing time, and never paid for another game, and never ran out of someone racking...no matter how bad I beat all the challengers, they just keep challenging. And guess what, they're all drinking and having a great time.

Pay by credit card, debt card...Samsung phone....not a chance. Pay for 5 games in advance, or push the button and rent the table for an hour....not a chance in hell. You can save all that bullshit for yuppyville USA, but it's not a good formula for success in the bar table industry. That is a vending company thing, just like walking into a bar and seeing the coin chute is set for $2.50 a game, no one who enjoys playing pool is going to pay that high of a price to play a single game, and no challengers are going to keep paying it for 5 min or less, or 1 shot or less for that price. Those prices are for pool tables that DON'T get played.

So there's no evolution for bar tables to go through, they're the same tables for the most part, in the sa.e bars for the .ost part, that they've been in for the last 36+ years that I've been working on them. The only change in the coin op industry worth noting took place 19 years ago when I helped Diamond design their coin operated pool tables based on my own coin operated pool table design that I turned over to them to produce for todays businesses, and I have to add, Diamond did a lot of that design work as well, but between them and my design, we came together to produce the Diamond Smart Tables.

You'll never see pool tables that keep track of which balls go in which pockets, or tables that only release enough balls to play 9B and hold back the rest. You're never going to see pool tables racking their own balls as to give each breaker a fair rack! The only way anyone is going to even get close to seeming something like that is if you're smoking crack with coating of shit, because that's the only way this industry will give into those kind of BS changes.
 
Great news. Since 1990, most of the bar boxes have evolved. The ultimate is the Diamond 7'

If you consider the Diamond 7' table, no they aren't essentially the same. Not even close. See the summary at the end.

The arcade quarter drop still exists, but a few companies have different styles to include tokens, bills, pay per time, etc. Diamond is pretty flexible as I've seen at least four different methods on Diamond tables (quarters, pay per time, tokens, and US Dollar coin). I'm sure there is no issue fitting the bill or credit card, or any other new way to pay.

See previous

Well, some tables still have the quarter holders, but certainly that's not a normal thing anymore. I don't know that any table manufacturer has looked at queue management. A chalk board is about the best thing available. Got any ideas?

This is where the meat of your question really points to Diamond Billiards and the evolution of the 7' table. Diamond leads the field on this important question. The whole table plays like a regular table. The cueball return is based on an optic system that differentiates the cueball from the other balls, so you can use a real, normal cueball instead of the oversized cueballs of the past.

Valley/Dynamo's cueball system uses a special cueball today with a jacket of ferrous material post-cast on a object. The result is roughly the same weight and size cueball that can be pulled to a return track with a magnet system (a more evolved system than the magnetic return systems of the 1990's. So even Valley has evolved. But the Diamond system is just overall way better.

To your overall questions, yes Bar Box tables have evolved, with Diamond easily lapping the field. If you haven't seen one, you will be pleasantly surprised. They use the same cushion mounting style as a regular table (not the screw-in-from-the-side that most bar tables have), the pockets are nearly identical to standard pockets, there are no metal corners, and the cueball return system allows a regular cueball to be used.

If you have any questions, RKC is your man.

Freddie
Thank you, Freddie, for the comprehensive reply! Very informative. And thanks to everyone else who contributed.

jv
 
You seem to fail to understand the commercial coin operated pool table industry. To most bar owners that own their own coin op pool tables, they are an unreceipted source of income, as in no one really knows how much the bring in except the owner. The last thing any owner wants is a way of calculating how much their pool tables have earned as in MOST cases its NOT going to match up with what the write down in their books. Coin operated pool tables for the most part, produce a lower cash income, but higher alchohol sales if compared to pool rooms that rely on renting their pool tables by the hour. Hourly rental pool tables for the most part average 3 players to a table, which is the limit of alcohol sales per table as well, if the pool room even sells alcohol. When you rent a pool table in a pool room for let's say $5-$8 per hour, or even higher, that means it's your table, if someone wants to play you, then you need to bring up the conversation about splitting the hourly, and howong have you already been on the clock. But maybe you just want to practice, and don't drink alcohol,.....wonder why pool halls are closing their doors?

In a bar, I can go in and if no ones on a table, I can put my money in the coin chute, drop the balls and start racking...and almost right away someone asks me if I want someone to play....and guess what, I win, he pays and racks. I can't count the times I've played all night long, until closing time, and never paid for another game, and never ran out of someone racking...no matter how bad I beat all the challengers, they just keep challenging. And guess what, they're all drinking and having a great time.

Pay by credit card, debt card...Samsung phone....not a chance. Pay for 5 games in advance, or push the button and rent the table for an hour....not a chance in hell. You can save all that bullshit for yuppyville USA, but it's not a good formula for success in the bar table industry. That is a vending company thing, just like walking into a bar and seeing the coin chute is set for $2.50 a game, no one who enjoys playing pool is going to pay that high of a price to play a single game, and no challengers are going to keep paying it for 5 min or less, or 1 shot or less for that price. Those prices are for pool tables that DON'T get played.

So there's no evolution for bar tables to go through, they're the same tables for the most part, in the sa.e bars for the .ost part, that they've been in for the last 36+ years that I've been working on them. The only change in the coin op industry worth noting took place 19 years ago when I helped Diamond design their coin operated pool tables based on my own coin operated pool table design that I turned over to them to produce for todays businesses, and I have to add, Diamond did a lot of that design work as well, but between them and my design, we came together to produce the Diamond Smart Tables.

You'll never see pool tables that keep track of which balls go in which pockets, or tables that only release enough balls to play 9B and hold back the rest. You're never going to see pool tables racking their own balls as to give each breaker a fair rack! The only way anyone is going to even get close to seeming something like that is if you're smoking crack with coating of shit, because that's the only way this industry will give into those kind of BS changes.

Ah, I get that, thanks. The business model drives the technology, not the other way around.
 
Can you point out where I said a card operated table is better than a coin operated table? Way back in post 65 I even mentioned I don't care how the balls drop. Evolutionary, yes, revolutionary, meh - it's 2019 and shit is supposed to be digital. The evolution of bar boxes are digital bar boxes, am I not right? Not once did I say I prefer them.

The only thing I see changing with the digital bar boxes are more expensive games and frankly, that pisses me off just as much as the next guy.

Those Global tables are the shit though (now THAT was trolling for those that are keeping score).

And I too love walking into a bar and holding the table for the night, it's quite fun to do, especially when you're in some shit hole town and at some point begin wondering if you're going to be able to walk out the door :eek:


You seem to fail to understand the commercial coin operated pool table industry. To most bar owners that own their own coin op pool tables, they are an unreceipted source of income, as in no one really knows how much the bring in except the owner. The last thing any owner wants is a way of calculating how much their pool tables have earned as in MOST cases its NOT going to match up with what the write down in their books. Coin operated pool tables for the most part, produce a lower cash income, but higher alchohol sales if compared to pool rooms that rely on renting their pool tables by the hour. Hourly rental pool tables for the most part average 3 players to a table, which is the limit of alcohol sales per table as well, if the pool room even sells alcohol. When you rent a pool table in a pool room for let's say $5-$8 per hour, or even higher, that means it's your table, if someone wants to play you, then you need to bring up the conversation about splitting the hourly, and howong have you already been on the clock. But maybe you just want to practice, and don't drink alcohol,.....wonder why pool halls are closing their doors?

In a bar, I can go in and if no ones on a table, I can put my money in the coin chute, drop the balls and start racking...and almost right away someone asks me if I want someone to play....and guess what, I win, he pays and racks. I can't count the times I've played all night long, until closing time, and never paid for another game, and never ran out of someone racking...no matter how bad I beat all the challengers, they just keep challenging. And guess what, they're all drinking and having a great time.

Pay by credit card, debt card...Samsung phone....not a chance. Pay for 5 games in advance, or push the button and rent the table for an hour....not a chance in hell. You can save all that bullshit for yuppyville USA, but it's not a good formula for success in the bar table industry. That is a vending company thing, just like walking into a bar and seeing the coin chute is set for $2.50 a game, no one who enjoys playing pool is going to pay that high of a price to play a single game, and no challengers are going to keep paying it for 5 min or less, or 1 shot or less for that price. Those prices are for pool tables that DON'T get played.

So there's no evolution for bar tables to go through, they're the same tables for the most part, in the sa.e bars for the .ost part, that they've been in for the last 36+ years that I've been working on them. The only change in the coin op industry worth noting took place 19 years ago when I helped Diamond design their coin operated pool tables based on my own coin operated pool table design that I turned over to them to produce for todays businesses, and I have to add, Diamond did a lot of that design work as well, but between them and my design, we came together to produce the Diamond Smart Tables.

You'll never see pool tables that keep track of which balls go in which pockets, or tables that only release enough balls to play 9B and hold back the rest. You're never going to see pool tables racking their own balls as to give each breaker a fair rack! The only way anyone is going to even get close to seeming something like that is if you're smoking crack with coating of shit, because that's the only way this industry will give into those kind of BS changes.

Because pool players don't care about the payment method or debit card operated, or anything else. They want good tables, and that starts with Diamond. Diamond is light years ahead of any bar table on the market.

If RKC is talking about pool tables, it might just be best to stop typing and just listen for awhile. I don't say this about many folks, but this guy know more about pool tables than everyone in AZB combined.

Actually, if pool players didn't care about the payment method you wouldn't be reading page 3 of a thread that didn't need 3 pages.

Quick poll - How many of you own Harley's? (Warning - this is me trolling)
 
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Quick poll - How many of you own Harley's? (Warning - this is me trolling)

I knew a Harley Bryant....does that count?
One hell of a snooker and pool player for the dough...outta Jacksonville FL


....this here trolling can be fun
 
C

Actually, if pool players didn't care about the payment method you wouldn't be reading page 3 of a thread that didn't need 3 pages.

Quick poll - How many of you own Harley's? (Warning - this is me trolling)

Well, that does not even make sense. Pool players are not impressed because a pool table can take a credit card or some other form of payment. Big whoop.

The only reason it went 3 pages is you didn't get the answer you wanted about pool tables. The biggest expert in the country provided enough insight to last a lifetime, but you're still trolling? Weird.
 
Well, that does not even make sense. Pool players are not impressed because a pool table can take a credit card or some other form of payment. Big whoop.

The only reason it went 3 pages is you didn't get the answer you wanted about pool tables. The biggest expert in the country provided enough insight to last a lifetime, but you're still trolling? Weird.

The extra pages wasn’t so bad....after RKC straightens us out about bar tables....
...we find out he’s an absolute sucker for grand daughters....
...those big tough guys usually have an Achilles heel.
 
Your statement doesn't parse well but I guess you are saying that you feel there is no good reason to charge for games in a bar.

I have not seen it myself but I've been told that in some bars in Texas the pool is free but you are expected to drink.

Is English eight ball generally free to play in bars in the UK? That would certainly make the table payment mechanism simpler and they could start using proper-sized white balls.

UK bars generally suffer the same way as bars elsewhere. Under-used pool table waiting for coins. Better to buy a table, maintain it, have a house “winner stays” rule for walk ins and close the table for tournaments. It works.

If bar owners adopt the mindset that a pool table is not a separate income stream to the rest of the business they will make more money from having a pool table. Sure, some bars in some busy parts of big cities where almost everyone every night has never been to the bar before might benefit from charging for pool - but they would benefit more from not having a table and increasing their “standing room only”.
 
Well, that does not even make sense. Pool players are not impressed because a pool table can take a credit card or some other form of payment. Big whoop.

The only reason it went 3 pages is you didn't get the answer you wanted about pool tables. The biggest expert in the country provided enough insight to last a lifetime, but you're still trolling? Weird.

I never said they were impressed, I said they cared, clearly, if you didn't care you wouldn't keep coming back to this thread in an attempt at proving me wrong - which, by the way, hasn't happened.

I would love to be a fly on your wall...

duty_calls.png


And please post the question that I am asking, I'm dying to know what I want to know.
 
Of course the younger generation would rather just pay with thier phone or beep thier watch. If you don’t realize how much this goes on your out of touch. Internationally people were paying with thier phones for almost 20 years . I’m almost 50 and even I enjoy the convience of just waving my apple watch over a scanner at Starbucks lol

Now as someone who was a former business owner and knows how hard it is to make ends meet in state and town that Tax the living hell out of you....HELL NO WOULD I WANT THAT lol Thats unaccounted for income. No one knows how much money goes through my pool tables in a bar but me and I would want to keep it that way lol
 
I never said they were impressed, I said they cared, clearly, if you didn't care you wouldn't keep coming back to this thread in an attempt at proving me wrong - which, by the way, hasn't happened.

I would love to be a fly on your wall...

duty_calls.png


And please post the question that I am asking, I'm dying to know what I want to know.

Prove you wrong? dude, that shipped sailed a long time ago, by much better posters than me. I was just dog piling after the fact :) lol
But, its OK, you win, you are the winner, you are the best. I surrender. Tell RKC to stick his multiple decades of expert experience up his arse :) LOL
 
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Prove you wrong? dude, that shipped sailed a long time ago, by much better posters than me. I was just dog piling after the fact :) lol
But, its OK, you win, you are the winner, you are the best. I surrender. Tell RKC to stick his multiple decades of expert experience up his arse :) LOL

Where was I wrong? Please enlighten me. Specifics, Waldo, don't just blurt out a bunch of BS and then fail to follow it up, specifics please.

Also, I'm still waiting for you to tell me what question I was trying to get answered. Again, specifics would be great.

You must be a Trump fan, blurt out a bunch of lies then not show the proof.
Let's see how that one plays out. (And that's me trolling, again)
 
Oh, I went to another bar in town and guess what, they have Global tables also!

You see, it's not my choice to shoot on these tables, it's all we have. I suppose that could be translated into "Chili Palmer loves Global tables and thinks Diamonds are crap", but then again, I'm not sure how, unless the person who makes that assumption is an idiot. Kind of trolling there, but not really. I'm really just tired of waiting for someone to prove me wrong and tell me what question I am trying get answered - hint - the only question I asked (internals of Global tables) in this thread was answered by RKC.
 
I thought of this thread last night and wanted to come in here and rib RKC a bit.


It appears the ball box on Diamond tables is rather small and the edges are rather sharp - as confirmed by the cut on my finger.

So Mr. RKC, you need to go back and help them with the next evolution of that dam box!

:p

And before someone says, don't lose and you won't rack - it was alternating break and I won 13 of 18 and was top shooter for the night ;)
 
I thought of this thread last night and wanted to come in here and rib RKC a bit.


It appears the ball box on Diamond tables is rather small and the edges are rather sharp - as confirmed by the cut on my finger.

So Mr. RKC, you need to go back and help them with the next evolution of that dam box!

:p

And before someone says, don't lose and you won't rack - it was alternating break and I won 13 of 18 and was top shooter for the night ;)
Hmmmm.....soft skin and wear mens XXXL gloves???:thumbup:
 
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