Have I been sleeping? This new wave of straight shooters...

fan-tum

AzB Silver Member
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...Filler, Kaci, etc. seemed to come out of nowhere. Are they byproducts of a background in snooker. If snooker is the key, why hasn't Ronnie O. run 600 in 14.1?
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...Filler, Kaci, etc. seemed to come out of nowhere. Are they byproducts of a background in snooker. If snooker is the key, why hasn't Ronnie O. run 600 in 14.1?
A lot of Euro countries have active pool associations with leagues and tournaments. These guys start young and get quality instruction. By the time they're 14-16 they are already really solid players. U.S. is just a tad behind in these regards.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...Filler, Kaci, etc. seemed to come out of nowhere. Are they byproducts of a background in snooker. If snooker is the key, why hasn't Ronnie O. run 600 in 14.1?
My guess is that Ronnie has never spent any significant amount of time playing 14.1 or any other pool game with 2-1/4" pool balls, due to the detrimental effects it might have on his snooker game, which is played with 2-1/16" considerably lighter balls, which changes everything. It would be interesting to see Ronnie play 14.1 on a 12 foot snooker table with standard snooker ball specs, to see how many balls he could run under those conditions.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
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My guess is that Ronnie has never spent any significant amount of time playing 14.1 or any other pool game with 2-1/4" pool balls, due to the detrimental effects it might have on his snooker game, which is played with 2-1/16" considerably lighter balls, which changes everything. It would be interesting to see Ronnie play 14.1 on a 12 foot snooker table with standard snooker ball specs, to see how many balls he could run under those conditions.
He's actually played a lot of pool, mainly 8ball. He's been on the MosconiCup and played in the IPT. If he played more of it he'd be a top guy in pool. His mechanics and feel are just too good.
 

Tin Man

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new wave

...Filler, Kaci, etc. seemed to come out of nowhere. Are they byproducts of a background in snooker. If snooker is the key, why hasn't Ronnie O. run 600 in 14.1?

This happened to me as well. I had been competing nationally through 2011, back when the Seminole events were around and the US Open had 256 players with a $500 entry. I wasn't a threat to win the major events but was cashing regularly and felt live to win almost any match.

Then after a few years off I played the 2017 US Open. I drew Kaci first round. I got whooped by an 18 year old. Then I got to watch Filler, Sanchez, Albin, and so many more like them from all over the world.

My belief is that SVB raised the bar in 2006-2008. All of the 8-12 year old kids that were getting started on their pool journey looked at SVB and said "That's what I must be able to do". Fast forward 10 years and you've got an army of 18-22 year old men that are absolutely killers. They all break strong, jump well, shoot straight, and play with tons of confidence. Totally different from the top players even 10 years ago.

I still like to go compete, but the game has definitely changed.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This happened to me as well. I had been competing nationally through 2011, back when the Seminole events were around and the US Open had 256 players with a $500 entry. I wasn't a threat to win the major events but was cashing regularly and felt live to win almost any match.

Then after a few years off I played the 2017 US Open. I drew Kaci first round. I got whooped by an 18 year old. Then I got to watch Filler, Sanchez, Albin, and so many more like them from all over the world.

My belief is that SVB raised the bar in 2006-2008. All of the 8-12 year old kids that were getting started on their pool journey looked at SVB and said "That's what I must be able to do". Fast forward 10 years and you've got an army of 18-22 year old men that are absolutely killers. They all break strong, jump well, shoot straight, and play with tons of confidence. Totally different from the top players even 10 years ago.

I still like to go compete, but the game has definitely changed.
In Europe a lot of kids got to see Soquet and Ortmann in their prime. These two really had a big effect on Euro pool. In the UK you had Steve Knight(RIP) then Darren A. as models.
 

Bob Jewett

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In Europe a lot of kids got to see Soquet and Ortmann in their prime. These two really had a big effect on Euro pool. In the UK you had Steve Knight(RIP) then Darren A. as models.
I asked the players at the Mosconi Cup who their early heroes were. All of the European players mentioned Efren. Busti and Earl got two mentions each.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
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...Filler, Kaci, etc. seemed to come out of nowhere. Are they byproducts of a background in snooker. If snooker is the key, why hasn't Ronnie O. run 600 in 14.1?

Per previous discussions, Kaçi doesn’t have a snooker background. He has been interviewed by a few of us on this subject. He grew up as a pool player and never played snooker until the Albanian Federation asked him to compete a year ago.

Does Josh Filler have a background in snooker?

So snooker isn’t the key.

Freddie
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He's actually played a lot of pool, mainly 8ball. He's been on the MosconiCup and played in the IPT. If he played more of it he'd be a top guy in pool. His mechanics and feel are just too good.
You say Ronnie has played a lot of pool? Relative to his lifetime hours spent on a pool table vs a snooker table, I'm guessing it's less than 1%, maybe 2%-3% at most. I'm guessing he likely also doesn't even mess much with side spin when he does play pool, due to the differences in the deflection and swerve between snooker balls and pool balls.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You say Ronnie has played a lot of pool? Relative to his lifetime hours spent on a pool table vs a snooker table, I'm guessing it's less than 1%, maybe 2%-3% at most. I'm guessing he likely also doesn't even mess much with side spin when he does play pool, due to the differences in the deflection and swerve between snooker balls and pool balls.
Don't put words in my mouth. Never said anything about hrs played relative to his snooker. Just saying he has played quite a bit of pool and is FAR from helpless playing it.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...Filler, Kaci, etc. seemed to come out of nowhere. Are they byproducts of a background in snooker. If snooker is the key, why hasn't Ronnie O. run 600 in 14.1?

Ummmmmm cause there isn't any money in it?
All these young guys have a new aiming system , I will be releasing the details shortly For 700 dollars you come to my basement, and I show it to you.
If you aren't running twice as many balls after you come to my basement, as before , you don't leave until you do .
I have never had anyone fail, {so far}.
 

gxman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not sure why the US is so weak on young talent. Sure there's Sky, Berg, and Dechaine, but I think they're more of fringe top 15 players.

Sky can hit top gear and win and event like DCC, but it appears he players under guys like Filler, Kaci, Gorst, etc..
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...Filler, Kaci, etc. seemed to come out of nowhere. Are they byproducts of a background in snooker. If snooker is the key, why hasn't Ronnie O. run 600 in 14.1?

There is no money in it. Ronnie O has a net worth of 15 million dollars and earns more than all US pro pool players combined.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not sure why the US is so weak on young talent. Sure there's Sky, Berg, and Dechaine, but I think they're more of fringe top 15 players.

Sky can hit top gear and win and event like DCC, but it appears he players under guys like Filler, Kaci, Gorst, etc..

Hmm. I would put Sky on the same level as those guys. I think it is close enough to be a pick 'em in most any format. Guys like Steyer, Thorpe, etc. may be a level below, but I think Sky has improved over the last couple of years to the point that he can play with anyone.

I am not so convinced that we don't have more strong young players, I just don't know that they are seriously pursuing pool. Maybe if the .gov supplemented them like many countries do, it would increase. Remember the teenager that steamrolled Earl on the 10 ft. table? Imagine if that kid had been playing 6-8 hours of pool all day everyday. No telling how good he would be. I bet there are tons more in a country the size of the US...
 

BelleBelle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Could it be that most towns don’t have real Poolroom’s anymore. Alot of places are Bars/Poolroom’s where you have to be 21 to get in. Also there’s a mix of table sizes depending on what part of the country you live in. I’m sure if you live in bigger cities this wouldn’t be a the problem. All that being said I honestly believe most kids don’t wanna take the time to learn the game, technology has taken them over as well as a lot of parents.
 

gxman

AzB Silver Member
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I've read that APA membership is near 250K members, figure the US would have more world class players.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
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Probably the same reason Michael Jordan didn't dominate the netball scene.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it's not that they've all played snooker. but they've all watched snooker. eurosport is pretty much included in the standard tv programming in much of europe. that the snooker players have great fundamentals is well known and therefor applied in the european pool halls

I asked the players at the Mosconi Cup who their early heroes were. All of the European players mentioned Efren. Busti and Earl got two mentions each.

earl was my hero, and a hero to many others i know as well. he shot straight and fast. shane is most likely a hero to many euro pool youngsters, in my opinion he is the best pool player active now (and you beat him!)
 
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