Have you any good stories about underworld characters you met in Pool Rooms?

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
thats why when guys like ronnie, keith, fats, beenie, uj, hubert, both reds, got to the table everyone got around to watch and be entertained. and you knew it would be good.
but if varner or cook played you could be sure of expert playing but a boring match and neither created action in a room like the above players.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
without characters that are interesting and debateable to excite people pool will continue to go down hill. mostly because it is not an exciting sport to watch so tv isnt going to pay much for it to happen.

cj is right. long ago it was fun to just hang out in a pool room. not so anymore as nothing is going on to watch in the majority of them.
Golf is exciting to watch on TV?? Since when- yet sponsors pay millions to advertise during TV golf matches. It is much more about the size and demographics of the audience than the actual perceived excitement of a sport on TV. You have to prove to sponsors that either millions will watch or that those who do watch have millions to spend.
So I believe that pool would have its best opportunity to succeed by blending excitement with a more well heeled audience. As some like CJ put effort into helping make the game itself better for a TV audience - something like the BEF ( Billiard Education Foundation) needs investments to reach out to a bigger youth audience - why not target serious childhood disorders like ADD, OCD, depression, anxiety- many of which have been increased by the effects of technology and the speed of society today- billiards is the PERFECT game to help address many of these issues today if it is taught and played in the right environments. maybe the physiologist who wrote the pool book " Pleasures of small motions" can write some articles in the medical journals about the positive possible effects of playing pool on childhood disorders that we see so much of today.

We need to think outside the box to help pool make a comeback- can't just wait for another movie!
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
Some older pool guys told me to be careful around pool players and pool fans.
poolMLM.png
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
thats why when guys like ronnie, keith, fats, beenie, uj, hubert, both reds, got to the table everyone got around to watch and be entertained. and you knew it would be good.
but if varner or cook played you could be sure of expert playing but a boring match and neither created action in a room like the above players.
Yes, Larry Liscotti, Jimmy Mataya are on that list. You are exactly right though, sounds like you've been around some of the best!
 

Maxx

AzB Platinum Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes, the reason pool isn't popular is because of the actual way we play the game. Back in the times I speak of we played "Two Shot Shoot Out" which was a game 10 times (or probably more) better than the Texas Express One Foul rules.

What I've done is put the game into a balance sheet, identifying the strengths and weaknesses (assets and liabilities) of the game and I changed things and changed things until I got all the weaknesses on the strength side. Even the appropriate time for banter between the players. My professional poker friend Daniel Negreanu urged me to make sure that was included and how it's made poker more popular.

I'm getting ready to go to Kentucky to start the project, hopefully with some good moves and fortune it will help the game get what it needs.
Man, I miss shoot out, we called it push out. It added another level to the game, there was a lot of strategy behind a push out.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes I knew those people and places. Paul passed away a few years ago. Eugene is still around and playing a little.
Eugene camped in our town for a bit and he couldn't make a ball for the first few weeks, but he learned real fast, I gotta say!

Was playing pretty good by the last night he was there!!
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Man, I miss shoot out, we called it push out. It added another level to the game, there was a lot of strategy behind a push out.
Yes, I never have liked "One Foul" or Texas Express, whatever they call it these days. The strategy required is so simple, sure you still have to do everything well, but there's not many entertaining, exciting, or strategically advanced situations playing that type game. The breaking and racking has become 60% or more of a factor, this should never have happened....but it did, just because the game was designed for two reasons 1) to put more luck in the game so they got bigger fields 2) so the tournaments went faster so the promoters could leave earlier. This is not the factors that should be considered when making the rules for a game that has effected so many of us by diluting the popularity. I can't wait until people that love to watch pool sees what it's like to see how much better the entertainment, excitement, and strategic battles can be with more sophisticated rules. They are simple to use, like I've told people "it takes 15 minutes to learn, and a lifetime to master" - I'm sure. you know what I mean MAXX! Enjoy your weekend, and play well.
 

Nature Boy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I went to Daniel Negreanu's house to play pool with him he agreed with you. He said Poker got to be so big, so fast for 2 main reasons, first they started showing the hole cards on TV and 2, they made the characters colorful....by design.

The group of pool players from the 70s and 80s were entertaining, like Jimmy "Pretty Boy Floyd", Steve Mizerak, and many others. They also dressed the part, I went to a bar table tournament in Clinton Iowa in the 80s and just about all the players were in dress cloths, several in suits.

There is a formula to make pool follow in the model of poker, and pool has some HUGE advantages, especially the fact it can be gambled on by the public LIVE. I look forward to the opportunity to see pool change in the ways it needs to and accomplish it's destiny, to be the #1 indoor, nighttime game in the world!

What kind of player was Negrenau? They always used to say on tv that he was a hustler in his younger days.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
What kind of player was Negrenau? They always used to say on tv that he was a hustler in his younger days.
He's pretty good, capable of running racks. He said he grew up playing snooker, I think in Toronto Canada. We played several games, I was showing him a business venture I said would be available in a few years. That time is coming soon, time for another trip to Vegas soon.
 

sonny burnett

Registered
I watched Jayson Shaw's infant child at Steinway billiards during the tournament. (I didn't watch the whole time, I didn't know it was a family event)
I stood watching many pros at Amsterdam Billiards.
I have competed against league players who keep their identities anonymous. I think the league I played in is full of foreign agents or espionage saboteurs. In today's generation its normal to share social media. There are no invisible worms that the NSA uses to monitor you checking your inbox for emails from people that forgot about you. They even know how often you click a website to refresh for udpate.

If I mention a name, no one will know who I am talking about.
Huh???? Good God.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I went to Daniel Negreanu's house to play pool with him he agreed with you. He said Poker got to be so big, so fast for 2 main reasons, first they started showing the hole cards on TV and 2, they made the characters colorful....by design.

The group of pool players from the 70s and 80s were entertaining, like Jimmy "Pretty Boy Floyd", Steve Mizerak, and many others. They also dressed the part, I went to a bar table tournament in Clinton Iowa in the 80s and just about all the players were in dress cloths, several in suits.

There is a formula to make pool follow in the model of poker, and pool has some HUGE advantages, especially the fact it can be gambled on by the public LIVE. I look forward to the opportunity to see pool change in the ways it needs to and accomplish it's destiny, to be the #1 indoor, nighttime game in the world!
Cant wait to see this, hope it comes to fruition. Watching 9 ball makes you feel brain dead afterward. When the announcers and even casual players can predict the routes/shots 90% of the time, it's just not entertaining. With this being the "savior" of pool for a tv audience, it's no wonder interest has dropped so much. 10 ball isn't much better, it addresses some of the problems but still. For rotation, I'd like to see a more strategic game like rotation/61 become more mainstream. It makes the viewers feel clever when they see combos/caroms/billiards and can add up numbers in their heads and a full 15 ball rack isn't wired in the same way 9 ball is. Random is good, clusters are good.

The public is overdue for a more strategic game with some characters added in. I'm sure today's pool players are great people off the table and have interesting stories, but it just doesn't show to the audience. The Mosconi Cup had a little spice added when the audience cheered/booed and the players hammed it up.

It's too bad we don't have more after school clubs like some other countries. I'd imagine it's why you see so many good players in china and japan. Gotta get kids the opportunity to play early on good equipment and with good instruction. In the US we focus so much on "physical" sports like football, but unless you win the lottery, you aren't going to be playing after college, pool is a lifetime endeavor. With all the worry over concussions and such nowadays, pool would make a good alternative sport, plus you get the brainiacs and the jocks playing.

I'd honestly like to see something as exciting as some of the big money 1P matches where the audience learns the game and gets into the strategic mindset. Educate the audience and then let them feel clever for understanding some of the strategy, and wowed by the shotmaking and moves.
 

Bredtski

New member
without characters that are interesting and debateable to excite people pool will continue to go down hill. mostly because it is not an exciting sport to watch so tv isnt going to pay much for it to happen.

cj is right. long ago it was fun to just hang out in a pool room. not so anymore as nothing is going on to watch in the majority of them.
Sorry to hijack the thread gentlemen, but if I may make a comment to perhaps get you to rethink your thought process on TV being scared of the game bc it’s too boring.....Have you not seen how many damn NATIONAL Cornhole matches and “championships” have been on ESP freakin’ N lately??? I literally ran across a dozen or so in the past month “accidentally” just flipping’! If THAT can generate enough buzz to attract sponsors and advertisers such as Budweiser and Manscape to name a few off the top of my head, I couldn’t imagine a carefully planned strategical campaign headed by as you suggested, a few “colorful characters” (maybe like Tickle from Moonshiners or something but with more teeth perhaps...) or something along those lines.....With social media and a little clever promo I think the game could totally hit the “reset button” and start over from SCRATCH!!! 😂🤣😭 (🤔see what I did there...yes pun intended....I crack me up sometimes! 😳🤭🤫)
(Also, watching bowling is like watching paint dry IMO as well and there decent coverage and money there as well...). Just hoping-just dreaming. I’d love to be a part of the games “NEXT and BEST” run! Ya know the 2021-2030+ run coming up...🙏🏼
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Cant wait to see this, hope it comes to fruition. Watching 9 ball makes you feel brain dead afterward. When the announcers and even casual players can predict the routes/shots 90% of the time, it's just not entertaining. With this being the "savior" of pool for a tv audience, it's no wonder interest has dropped so much. 10 ball isn't much better, it addresses some of the problems but still. For rotation, I'd like to see a more strategic game like rotation/61 become more mainstream. It makes the viewers feel clever when they see combos/caroms/billiards and can add up numbers in their heads and a full 15 ball rack isn't wired in the same way 9 ball is. Random is good, clusters are good.

The public is overdue for a more strategic game with some characters added in. I'm sure today's pool players are great people off the table and have interesting stories, but it just doesn't show to the audience. The Mosconi Cup had a little spice added when the audience cheered/booed and the players hammed it up.

It's too bad we don't have more after school clubs like some other countries. I'd imagine it's why you see so many good players in china and japan. Gotta get kids the opportunity to play early on good equipment and with good instruction. In the US we focus so much on "physical" sports like football, but unless you win the lottery, you aren't going to be playing after college, pool is a lifetime endeavor. With all the worry over concussions and such nowadays, pool would make a good alternative sport, plus you get the brainiacs and the jocks playing.

I'd honestly like to see something as exciting as some of the big money 1P matches where the audience learns the game and gets into the strategic mindset. Educate the audience and then let them feel clever for understanding some of the strategy, and wowed by the shotmaking and moves.
I drove all night last night to where I want to make my headquarters and several people contacting me wanting to get involved on the ground floor. I made a 45 min video about my game and how it's far superior to regular pool in strategy, entertainment and excitement almost 3 years ago. This is a big opportunity for me so I didn't want to make any mistakes, you only get one chance to make a great first impression. Now I feel confident and have the right people involved to make an aggressive move, and with this pandemoniac it's the ideal time......pool's the ideal lockdown game, and it looks like "the powers that should not be" want us in our homes for "some" reason....wonder what that could be. ;)
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I was in the military I was in something called the NSG. Look that up.

Our adversaries don't have to spy. They bribe and blackmail corrupt politicians and officials to give them what they want.
I looked it up. Nada. So what is it?
 

sonny burnett

Registered
Good luck CJ. YOU, my friend never back down from an uphill battle and I wish you luck in the new attempt at reviving the game.

I'm looking forward to the details when you see fit!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good luck CJ. YOU, my friend never back down from an uphill battle and I wish you luck in the new attempt at reviving the game.

I'm looking forward to the details when you see fit!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I'm in Kentucky organizing all the specific details, hopefully we can find a home base soon to showcase what we're doing. I've been working on this project for 3 years, and now is the perfect opportunity, especially since most people will not be leaving their homes in the foreseeable future.

Another great aspect of pocket billiards is we all play indoors and virtually anyone has room for a table, or friends that do. The game has some fatal flaws and history has proven it won't get much better no matter how much money is thrown at it without taking the time to improve the entertainment value for both the fans and the players.

I appreciate your encouragement, I have had uphill battles in several areas of my life and LOVE outrunning the (apparent) nutz. lol

The Game is the Teacher
 

RJPpool

Registered
Two foul shootout was a far superior game. I grew up playing it and rarely, if ever, would you see races like today. We played by the game or an ahead set. The better player almost always won. My good friend, Toby Sweet, was considered by many to be the best 2 foul shootout player in the world back in the sixties early seventies, I loved playing that way.
 

Bredtski

New member
I drove all night last night to where I want to make my headquarters and several people contacting me wanting to get involved on the ground floor. I made a 45 min video about my game and how it's far superior to regular pool in strategy, entertainment and excitement almost 3 years ago. This is a big opportunity for me so I didn't want to make any mistakes, you only get one chance to make a great first impression. Now I feel confident and have the right people involved to make an aggressive move, and with this pandemoniac it's the ideal time......pool's the ideal lockdown game, and it looks like "the powers that should not be" want us in our homes for "some" reason....wonder what that could be. ;)
Sorry if this comes across as ignorant but I am new here and don’t have much background on your venture other than understanding that your trying to “reinvent” the game to bring excitement and fresh eyes I suppose, to it....is that somewhat accurate?? If so, the 45 min video that you speak of, can I see it perhaps?? I love the idea of shining a spotlight back onto “this thing of ours....” (see what I did there...😉) and reintroducing the game (and whatever this exciting new one that your working on will be) to the new generation as well as reigniting the passion, but this time on a much broader scale, within the guardians of yesteryear, at least the ones still with us. It’s sad to watch such a storied pastime fade into oblivion when the reality of it is, it’s true story (and many many colorful stories and their colorful characters) have almost never even been told yet! And if we don’t shine that light on it very soon, unfortunately we will no longer have anyone around with us that can actually tell those stories first hand! It’s sad but it doesn’t have to be!
(Sorry for rambling but the whole concept gets me fired up!) But long story short, if there is anything or anyway that you could use another body, or brain to get involved in any fashion, I would love to have the opportunity to be a part of something like this in any capacity. In fact it would be an honor to do so. But if not, you gained just one more supporter regardless who’s pulling for you and wishes you all the success coming to you. I have no doubt that with your passion you will succeed either way!
Best!
Roy
 
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