Having a tip with multiple shapes

pharaoh68 said:
Someone posted earlier in this thread that chalk is responsible for 99.9% of all tip shaping. That was the most ludicrous and ridiculous thing I have ever read...


...until this last post of yours Jude. I'm actually starting to feel bad for you. Really.

-B <------- word of advice: never enter a battle of wits unless you actually have a wit to battle with.
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Then explain how a tip gets rounded off even if you don't shape it regularly. Let's hear it. You think it's impact? Help me understand your thinking. You want to go back to the topic, that's fine but let's keep it civil. You want to continue the banter, we can do that, too.
 
pharaoh68 said:
Oh wait! That was you too.

Wow! You're really not doing so well here. Allow me to repeat something I said earlier:


I think you should stop talking for a while, Jude. Maybe you should sit out the next couple of plays.
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Can you even tell me what chalk is made of?
 
the only thing that shapes my tip is a tip shaper, cue ball impact flatten/mushrooms it. just my .02
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Wow, did everybody lose their internet connection all at once? Can ANYONE tell me the chemical composition of chalk?
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Chalk compounds are proprietary, however, "During the late 1800s, carbonate of lime, better known as blackboard chalk, was used on the cue tips. The problem with blackboard chalk was that it made stains on the billiard fabric. Therefore some proprietary compounds having a silicate base are used for manufacturing billiards chalk nowadays. These ingredients include silica, aloxite, and color pigments. Carbonate of lime is not used anymore. These ingredients are mixed in the right proportion and converted to round or square cakes using a hydraulic press that can apply a pressure of 15 tons. After this process, the cakes are placed on racks to dry. Compared to softer pieces, harder chalks function better." (http://ezinearticles.com/?Billiards-Chalk&id=354398)
 
MBTaylor said:
Chalk compounds are proprietary, however, "During the late 1800s, carbonate of lime, better known as blackboard chalk, was used on the cue tips. The problem with blackboard chalk was that it made stains on the billiard fabric. Therefore some proprietary compounds having a silicate base are used for manufacturing billiards chalk nowadays. These ingredients include silica, aloxite, and color pigments. Carbonate of lime is not used anymore. These ingredients are mixed in the right proportion and converted to round or square cakes using a hydraulic press that can apply a pressure of 15 tons. After this process, the cakes are placed on racks to dry. Compared to softer pieces, harder chalks function better." (http://ezinearticles.com/?Billiards-Chalk&id=354398)
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Yes, now look up aloxite.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Because I already know what it is and I already know how right it makes me which is why I think we now have radio silence.
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If you know what it is and that it makes you right, show us your almighty wisdom oh great Jude. Oh please enlighten us.
 
MBTaylor said:
If you know what it is and that it makes you right, show us your almighty wisdom oh great Jude. Oh please enlighten us.
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"Aluminium oxide is an amphoteric oxide of aluminium with the chemical formula Al2O3. It is also commonly referred to as alumina or aloxite[2] in the mining, ceramic and materials science communities. It is produced by the Bayer process from bauxite. Its most significant use is in the production of aluminium metal, although it is also used as an abrasive due to its hardness and as a refractory material due to its high melting point."

WIKIPEDI-OWNED!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide
 
This thread is silly.

Chalk maintains the shape of the tip. It is an abrasive. One of its main ingredients is sandpaper grit, also known as aloxite. Perhaps some of you have noticed that chalk comes from the factory with a rounded depression molded into the exposed surface. Typically this depression is the exact surface that is rubbed against the much softer already rounded leather tip. With further use, the depression widens and deepens more than the tip wears. The chalk hole gets bigger because the abrasive in the chalk is also mixed with other ingredients allowing the aloxite to break off and seperate. If the tip was chalked with an infinitely long flat piece of chalk, it would flatten and disappear.

As far as the contact with the cue ball causing most of the wear I have a wager. Starting with two identical cues and tips, I'll keep rubbing mine with chalk and you keep hitting yours with a cue ball and we'll see whose lasts longest and whose wears away first.
 
Paul Dayton said:
This thread is silly.

Chalk maintains the shape of the tip. It is an abrasive. One of its main ingredients is sandpaper grit, also known as aloxite. Perhaps some of you have noticed that chalk comes from the factory with a rounded depression molded into the exposed surface. Typically this depression is the exact surface that is rubbed against the much softer already rounded leather tip. With further use, the depression widens and deepens more than the tip wears. The chalk hole gets bigger because the abrasive in the chalk is also mixed with other ingredients allowing the aloxite to break off and seperate. If the tip was chalked with an infinitely long flat piece of chalk, it would flatten and disappear.

As far as the contact with the cue ball causing most of the wear I have a wager. Starting with two identical cues and tips, I'll keep rubbing mine with chalk and you keep hitting yours with a cue ball and we'll see whose lasts longest and whose wears away first.
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Yeah but you're only an extremely knowledgable cue-maker and American Cuemakers Association member. What do you know about cues :p

edit: With a degree in Biochemistry. hahaha this keeps getting better and better!
 
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MBTaylor said:
If you know what it is and that it makes you right, show us your almighty wisdom oh great Jude. Oh please enlighten us.
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It's also known as Corundum. It's a rock-forming mineral which has a 9.0 Moh (scale of mineral hardness). To give you an idea of what 9.0 means, talc has a Moh of 1.0, quartz is 7.0 and Diamond is 10.0. Now, that scale isn't exactly as it appears. Diamond isn't 10 times harder than talc. Each level has a different meaning. Diamond is actually 1500 times harder than talc. Corundum is 400 times harder than talc and is listed as one of the most abrasive materials naturally found on Earth. So yes, it can't scratch a diamond but it can scratch just about everything else including a leather tip.

I think the confusion lies in the word "chalk" which is often made up of softer materials like talc. Blackboard chalk is much much softer than billiard chalk.
 
No one has disputed that chalk is abrasive. The dispute is because JUDE said that 99.9% of all tip shaping is done by the chalk and that the chalk's shape determines the shape of your tip.

JUDE is the one that said hitting the cue ball with your cue tip does nothing to the tip. If that is the case, how do you explain tip flattening and mushrooming? I guess the chalk is doing it?
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
It's also known as Corundum. It's a rock-forming mineral which has a 9.0 Moh (scale of mineral hardness). To give you an idea of what 9.0 means, talc has a Moh of 1.0, quartz is 7.0 and Diamond is 10.0. Now, that scale isn't exactly as it appears. Diamond isn't 10 times harder than talc. Each level has a different meaning. Diamond is actually 1500 times harder than talc. Corundum is 400 times harder than talc and is listed as one of the most abrasive materials naturally found on Earth. So yes, it can't scratch a diamond but it can scratch just about everything else including a leather tip.

I think the confusion lies in the word "chalk" which is often made up of softer materials like talc. Blackboard chalk is much much softer than billiard chalk.
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Do you care to cite your source(s) or are you ok with plagiarism?
 
MBTaylor said:
No one has disputed that chalk is abrasive. The dispute is because JUDE said that 99.9% of all tip shaping is done by the chalk and that the chalk's shape determines the shape of your tip.

JUDE is the one that said hitting the cue ball with your cue tip does nothing to the tip. If that is the case, how do you explain tip flattening and mushrooming? I guess the chalk is doing it?
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Well, you're still going to have to deal with properties of the tip. Mushrooming is obviously an impact characteristic along with tip flattening. However, we're talking about curvature.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I'm referencing mineral properties. Who should I cite, God?
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And the good Lord sayeth unto Jude "Referenceth mine Corundum my son. Have faith that your tip will be shapely and bountiful. Thine shall not miscueth."
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I'm referencing mineral properties. Who should I cite, God?
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Actually, if you are citing mineral properties, the properties are in a table or published somewhere, or do you have them memorized?
 
MBTaylor said:
Actually, if you are citing mineral properties, the properties are in a table or published somewhere, or do you have them memorized?
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Really? You have nothing left to say about the actual arguement so you're going onto references? Do you need footnotes for this post?

Whatever happened to saying "Gee, I didn't know that. Thanks for teaching me something new today!" I suppose that's hard to say with a foot in your mouth...
 
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