Help my game!!!

goingproin07

goingproin07

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been playin pool for about 4 months, and have a professional pool player as a coach....My game is getting extremely good (won 4 8ball tournaments and placed 2nd a 3rd in 2 9-ball tournaments... All were diamond tables and against players rated 9-12.....im only rated as a 7, but on average play like a 9....now my Q. The only thing right now really hurting my game, is shape......I practice around 50-60 hours a week, and still have no idea how to shoot shape.... I can normally run about 4-6 balls before i miss, and i miss b/c i have no shape.....Id ask my teacher for help, but i really dont wanna take away from him getting ready for the DCC.....so any advice would be greatly appreaciated..... thanx again guys...


Justin Harris

(ps, if u need to call me, my cell is 704-877-0085....
 
Cue ball control is what makes a pro a pro.

You don't know how to shoot shape because you can't control the cue ball?

Or you don't know how to shoot shape because you don't know what position ot pick?

For the first, you need a lot of stroke training and practice playing rotation games.

For the latter, you need to observe the players better than you -- how they play shape and why. I find recording TV matches on my DVR to be very valuable.
 
It's all in the patterns... Throw out three balls, take cue ball in hand and shoot the balls down in numbered order. Any position over a shaft length away is not acceptable and you have to shoot the shot over until you get the position correct. Then shoot it three more times to fix it in your memory.

Also start by looking at what position you need on the third ball before you shoot any balls. Make sure you get on the second ball with the proper angle to get to the position on the third ball that you want.

Stick to nice, easy patterns... keep it simple.

As you get better, throw out four balls... then five, etc.

You will pick up position play in no time this way.
 
BillYards drill is a good one for beginners, but I really recommend going with more balls out there and bringing some dot stickers to reset the balls when you mess up.

The fewer the balls out there, the less critical position becomes. You will learn much better patterns when you have to navigate around impeding balls. You will learn which positions you can make balls from (e.g. center of the table) that you probably wouldn't think we're ideal if you were going from shot to shot but are easy for pocketing and usually keep you out of trouble.

The shortest position path is usually the best.

Watch the patterns of the best players.

Always practice your weaknesses with position and pocketing. Reset the shot and do it over until you get it right or find an easier way to do it.

You will find out that when you "have no shape" it's usually because you lost position 2 or 3 shots ago and didn't realize it.
 
.....im only rated as a 7, but on average play like a 9....now my Q. The only thing right now really hurting my game, is shape......I practice around 50-60 hours a week, and still have no idea how to shoot shape....
Click to expand...
What rating system are you going by? In APA it is impossible to play like a SL9 (which is a 9 ball rating mind you) without playing shape, let alone an SL7 in 9 ball.

Now that aside, Bill Yards is correct, I started to pick up position this way and still occasionally do this drill when I feel like I am off some or to get used to a different table. Also, look into a book called "99 Critical shots", it will teach to how to play position on some shots that you will be able to adapt to other ones. Post back and let us know how it is going!
 
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You will find out that when you "have no shape" it's usually because you lost position 2 or 3 shots ago and didn't realize it.
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Thats a good one!!!

This always happens to me with clusters, I feel I can break them out later when I have had ample oppurtunity to do it earlier. Then I find out how wrong I was. :D
 
If you practice 50 – 60 hours a week take 10 – 20 hours of that and play 14.1 with someone. Then you will start to figure out position play.
 
50-60 hours a week even in your first week playing pool ever you should know a little position play.
 
One thing I used to do was when I watch professionals play on tv I'll say: "low right, medium hard" just how I'd play the shot. If they did something different, I'd watch and see why they did it. Now when I say "low right, medium hard" I watch as almost everytime they do exactly what I said. What this can teach you is how to read a table, and after reading the table how to eliminate as many variables as possibly(ie. english, # of rails, etc...) and taking on the easiest variables possible(ie. speed, natural angles, etc...). Also, practicing 9 ball is a lot better because you have to go after one ball you don't have an option.

Another thing I did was started playing carom on regular 9 foot tables. The game is 100% ball position because you are trying to hit both balls. Think about hitting a 2 1/4" ball on a table that is 9' X 4.5' instead of positioning the ball in an imaginary 6" X 6" square.

Lastly, rack 9 ball and break. Run it out, if you miss take ball in hand. If you miss again, rack em. I still do this often and after a few times racking I hate racking soo much that I force myself to play better. (I play with a good safety being as good as making a ball)
 
Thanks Everyone!

Ok...first off, my rating of a 7 is just in a local pool hall hosting 9ball tournaments on diamond tables....also, my shape has improved alot... I found that if i break a table down ( one with 9 balls on it) to 3 balls at a time, and try and set up shape on 3 balls at a time, i do alot better....example.... :"""" Shoot in the 1 ball with shape on the 2 that would leave u good shape on the 3....(sounds confusing)...pocket the 2 ball. Before shooting the 3 ball, figure out the next 3 ball set... how to get shape on the 4,5 & 6....then pocket the 3 with shape on the 4, and there is ur next 3 ball run....do this untill the rack is out.....now the problem i am having is using english to break out balls that are hidden, or stuck together. I average running the rack 1 or 2 times out of 10 games.... not to bad, but not where i wanna be.... but one thing that has really helped me is the ability to safe people....i have gotten very good at this....but anyways, thanks for all the help guys, and hopefully ill reach my goal of going pro in 2007...
 
You Have Got To Be Kidding

goingproin07 said:
Ok...first off, my rating of a 7 is just in a local pool hall hosting 9ball tournaments on diamond tables....also, my shape has improved alot... I found that if i break a table down ( one with 9 balls on it) to 3 balls at a time, and try and set up shape on 3 balls at a time, i do alot better....example.... :"""" Shoot in the 1 ball with shape on the 2 that would leave u good shape on the 3....(sounds confusing)...pocket the 2 ball. Before shooting the 3 ball, figure out the next 3 ball set... how to get shape on the 4,5 & 6....then pocket the 3 with shape on the 4, and there is ur next 3 ball run....do this untill the rack is out.....now the problem i am having is using english to break out balls that are hidden, or stuck together. I average running the rack 1 or 2 times out of 10 games.... not to bad, but not where i wanna be.... but one thing that has really helped me is the ability to safe people....i have gotten very good at this....but anyways, thanks for all the help guys, and hopefully ill reach my goal of going pro in 2007...
Click to expand...

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING
 
Patterns

thoffen said:
BillYards drill is a good one for beginners, but I really recommend going with more balls out there and bringing some dot stickers to reset the balls when you mess up.

The fewer the balls out there, the less critical position becomes. You will learn much better patterns when you have to navigate around impeding balls. You will learn which positions you can make balls from (e.g. center of the table) that you probably wouldn't think we're ideal if you were going from shot to shot but are easy for pocketing and usually keep you out of trouble.

The shortest position path is usually the best.

Watch the patterns of the best players.

Always practice your weaknesses with position and pocketing. Reset the shot and do it over until you get it right or find an easier way to do it.

THE PATTERNS OF THE BEST PLAYERS IS TO SHOOT THE 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, THAT'S HOW THEY PLAY 9 BALL. IS THERE SOMETHING I AM MISSING?
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sonia said:
THE PATTERNS OF THE BEST PLAYERS IS TO SHOOT THE 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, THAT'S HOW THEY PLAY 9 BALL. IS THERE SOMETHING I AM MISSING?
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No, thats the rules, big difference.

What is meant by patterns is the route taken to get to the next ball. Most of the normal routes can form a pattern that you get used to, but sometimes there is a ball blocking that route causing you to take a different one to get to it and play different position.

goingproin07 said:
and hopefully ill reach my goal of going pro in 2007...
Click to expand...
At the beginning of this thread you stated you could not play position. I think it is going to take longer then a little over a year to go pro from where you where before. There are people here who can play great position and have shot for 20+ years and still arnt pro. Change your SN to goingproin17 and that MIGHT be a little more realistic. However it is an admirable goal you have and I wish you the best!
 
nothing wrong with having a goal

One thing I would recommend is spending a day or two with a different trainer now and then. That doesn't mean to swap directions when a new trainer shows you a different way of doing things, it is just a way to view things from a different perspective. In the end you have to decide what is right for you.

I would try some medium sized tournaments every few months. No other way to tell where you are at and the sooner you get the feel for serious competition the better off you will be. Always remember that you are there to put your best game on the table, regardless of the outcome. If you feel that you played your best game then you have had a good tournament, win or go two and out.

I have won when I turned in a performance I was unhappy with and I have lost when I turned in the very best performance I could hope for and somebody else was better that day. That is the thing to remember when you lose, somebody else was better or occasionally just luckier at that moment in time. Never grant anyone that defeats you any superiority except at that moment in time. You may become a champion, you may not. However you will be far happier than if you had never tried.

Good Luck,
Hu

goingproin07 said:
Ok...first off, my rating of a 7 is just in a local pool hall hosting 9ball tournaments on diamond tables....also, my shape has improved alot... I found that if i break a table down ( one with 9 balls on it) to 3 balls at a time, and try and set up shape on 3 balls at a time, i do alot better....example.... :"""" Shoot in the 1 ball with shape on the 2 that would leave u good shape on the 3....(sounds confusing)...pocket the 2 ball. Before shooting the 3 ball, figure out the next 3 ball set... how to get shape on the 4,5 & 6....then pocket the 3 with shape on the 4, and there is ur next 3 ball run....do this untill the rack is out.....now the problem i am having is using english to break out balls that are hidden, or stuck together. I average running the rack 1 or 2 times out of 10 games.... not to bad, but not where i wanna be.... but one thing that has really helped me is the ability to safe people....i have gotten very good at this....but anyways, thanks for all the help guys, and hopefully ill reach my goal of going pro in 2007...
Click to expand...
 
goingproin07 said:
Ok...first off, my rating of a 7 is just in a local pool hall hosting 9ball tournaments on diamond tables....also, my shape has improved alot... I found that if i break a table down ( one with 9 balls on it) to 3 balls at a time, and try and set up shape on 3 balls at a time, i do alot better....example.... :"""" Shoot in the 1 ball with shape on the 2 that would leave u good shape on the 3....(sounds confusing)...pocket the 2 ball. Before shooting the 3 ball, figure out the next 3 ball set... how to get shape on the 4,5 & 6....then pocket the 3 with shape on the 4, and there is ur next 3 ball run....do this untill the rack is out.....now the problem i am having is using english to break out balls that are hidden, or stuck together. I average running the rack 1 or 2 times out of 10 games.... not to bad, but not where i wanna be.... but one thing that has really helped me is the ability to safe people....i have gotten very good at this....but anyways, thanks for all the help guys, and hopefully ill reach my goal of going pro in 2007...
Click to expand...

The best players tend to play 3 balls ahead. It helps to know exactly what you are doing and why before you do it. It makes you more assured of your shot, and you will succeed way more often. You have to strive to do things to the best of your ability or you will not learn anything.

Back to my originial question: Which is your weakness? Cue ball control? Or patterns? Both?
 
sonia said:
THE PATTERNS OF THE BEST PLAYERS IS TO SHOOT THE 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, THAT'S HOW THEY PLAY 9 BALL. IS THERE SOMETHING I AM MISSING?
Click to expand...

Good manners and the caplock key?
 
Icon of Sin said:
At the beginning of this thread you stated you could not play position. I think it is going to take longer then a little over a year to go pro from where you where before. There are people here who can play great position and have shot for 20+ years and still arnt pro. Change your SN to goingproin17 and that MIGHT be a little more realistic. However it is an admirable goal you have and I wish you the best!
Click to expand...
Ignore that and remember this.. If it is to be it is up to me... If you play 60 hours a week and have a pro player willing to help you it can happen.Do not let anyone on this board tell you different.Keep playing better players until you can beat them..
 
Ok. Position play..

Position play is probably the most difficult thing to do in the game of pool, and requires the most knowledge. If you have access to a pro, make sure he is not just an insane feel player and that he really has good knowledge. Being a good player does not make you a good teacher.

You can do a lot towards improving your shape without ever using english, in fact if you are really trying to improve your ability to get shape I would suggest practicing for a while whithout using any english at all. just practice using the tangent line and speed control. speed control is the most important part of Cb control. After you get good using speed control and the tangent line, you should start working with follow and draw... You'll notice certain things and this is where it helps to have someone that really knows the game so you don't have to figure them out on your own. on follow and draw, the harder you hit the ball the longer the CB will follow the tangent bfore it bites. You can use this to your advantage if the tangent isn't perfect or if it's a scratch shot etc....

Eventually, it will come down to how much knowledge or feel you gain from your practice. Not how much practice you get.
 
RoadAgent said:
Ignore that and remember this.. If it is to be it is up to me... If you play 60 hours a week and have a pro player willing to help you it can happen.Do not let anyone on this board tell you different.Keep playing better players until you can beat them..
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OK, everyone, this guy obviously has it right, lets all quit our jobs and get help from a pro and we all too can be pros by the end of the year.

Seriously though dude... be more polite about it next time rather then telling someone to ignore me. You are being just as unrealistic as the subject of this thread. I also siad his goal is admirable, so are you telling him to ignore that as well. People putting unrealistic goals into this guys head is what must have started this.

I'll tell you what, we'll make this interesting. 1year from today (which is already a few weeks head start then when this thread was started) I bet 100 dollars this guy isnt pro. You wanna make that bet? All we need is his name and we will know by next year. Hell I can save the thread and set a reminder on my PC one year from now so we wont miss it.

Back to the meat and potatoes here though. The goal is admirable, with a goal like that you will be a very strong shot by the end of the year, but a pro, I dont think so.
 
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