Help on a shot please

[RiverCity]

edit - skip to second diagram to see the shot

say you have a ball on the foot spot, where the 1 ball gets racked. Your cue ball is 3 inches up table and 6 inches towards the left rail. You take 3 shots. One with 1 tip of draw. One with one tip of draw and one tip of right. One with one tip of draw and one tip of left. Will the balls hit the rail at the same spot?

Sorry I don't have a table to test this and I wont be at one for awhile. My guess is that the right spin shot will hit the closest to the racking area. The center will hit a few inches up from that, and the left spin will take the ball farthest up the table. Am I right?

The shot speed is medium, just to get the cue ball to the rail plus a foot or two of roll.

No, it's not the same. You are making the same mistake a few others made. You keep referencing to making the ob. That is not what the OP is even talking about. To make the ob with english compared to without english, you have to contact the ob at two different places. Doing that will obviously cause different tangent lines. We are talking about hitting the ob in the exact same place with and without english. We aren't concerned in the least in this example about what does or doesn't happen to the ob. We are only concerned about what happens to the cb. Does or does it not follow the same line.

Im pretty sure he is in fact including pocketing the ball. The question isnt whether or not adding sidespin can change the tangent line while shooting an ob straight into the rail.
As close as I can figure anyways...... :thumbup:

Green text denotes assumptions about others knowledge base........ :wink:

 

[Skippy27]

Im pretty sure he is in fact including pocketing the ball. The question isnt whether or not adding sidespin can change the tangent line while shooting an ob straight into the rail.

I am pretty sure his exact question is whether or not the tangent line changes with spin.

He doesn't mention it as his statement is:
"say you have a ball on the foot spot, where the 1 ball gets racked. Your cue ball is 3 inches up table and 6 inches towards the left rail. You take 3 shots. One with 1 tip of draw. One with one tip of draw and one tip of right. One with one tip of draw and one tip of left. Will the balls hit the rail at the same spot?"

I am making the assumption that the hit is close enough and fast enough that swerve is not relevant to the shot, but if it is that is a whole other variable to account for.

• If his intent is to aim the same every time and let squirt and collusion induced throw "run rampant" then he will not hit the object ball in the same spot and he may or may not make the ball so the answer is NO, they will not go to the same part of the rail. Right spin will make the hit thinner, left spin will make the hit fuller.
  
  
• If his intent is to adjust for the CIT to make the ball every time (adjusting for squirt as a part of that) then he is going to be adjust where he hits the object ball thus he will not get the cue ball to go to about the same place on the rail every time.
  
  
• If his intent is to adjust the aim to account for squirt so he hits the object ball in the same spot and still let CIT "run rampant" then he will indeed hit the rail in about the same spot every single time, though he may or may not make the ball because of the throw.

Which shows, that unless you have a damn good reason to hit left or right, just don't do it.

 

[poolplaya1]

I am pretty sure his exact question is whether or not the tangent line changes with spin.

He doesn't mention it as his statement is:
"say you have a ball on the foot spot, where the 1 ball gets racked. Your cue ball is 3 inches up table and 6 inches towards the left rail. You take 3 shots. One with 1 tip of draw. One with one tip of draw and one tip of right. One with one tip of draw and one tip of left. Will the balls hit the rail at the same spot?"

I am making the assumption that the hit is close enough and fast enough that swerve is not relevant to the shot, but if it is that is a whole other variable to account for.

• If his intent is to aim the same every time and let squirt and collusion induced throw "run rampant" then he will not hit the object ball in the same spot and he may or may not make the ball so the answer is NO, they will not go to the same part of the rail. Right spin will make the hit thinner, left spin will make the hit fuller.
  
  
• If his intent is to adjust for the CIT to make the ball every time (adjusting for squirt as a part of that) then he is going to be adjust where he hits the object ball thus he will not get the cue ball to go to about the same place on the rail every time.
  
  
• If his intent is to adjust the aim to account for squirt so he hits the object ball in the same spot and still let CIT "run rampant" then he will indeed hit the rail in about the same spot every single time, though he may or may not make the ball because of the throw.

Which shows, that unless you have a damn good reason to hit left or right, just don't do it.

Thanks for your post, I was asking a question that had too few variables mentioned, so that no answer would be correct if it didn't delve into all the missed variables.

Thanks for all the effort in the responses, I really appreciate it.

Anybody want to play for money?

 

[greyghost]

Thanks for your post, I was asking a question that had too few variables mentioned, so that no answer would be correct if it didn't delve into all the missed variables.



Thanks for all the effort in the responses, I really appreciate it.



Anybody want to play for money?

You have 24hrs to appear


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

You might also want to browse through these links-

http://billiards.colostate.edu/technical_proofs/TP_3-1.pdf

http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2005/may05.pdf

From the 2005 article that you referenced above (bottom of page 3):

"As shown in Diagram 2, the deflected cue ball angle is increased a little with outside English."

So there you have it...

 

[Neil]

From the 2005 article that you referenced above (bottom of page 3):

"As shown in Diagram 2, the deflected cue ball angle is increased a little with outside English."

So there you have it...

Well, no you don't have it. If you re-read that portion of the article, you will see that section is talking about the 30 degree rule, not the 90 degree rule.

You were so quick to scan the article hoping to find something that fit what you believed that you totally missed the highlighted square above what you found. Here is what it states-
Principle 20 The effects of English on the 90° rule
Inside English reduces the object ball angle below 90°, excessive outside English
increases the object angle above 90°, and no English or “gearing” outside English have
absolutely no effect on the object ball angle (see Diagram 1).
• The cue ball’s path is unaffected by side English.
• The technical details can be found in TP A.7.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

Well, no you don't have it. If you re-read that portion of the article, you will see that section is talking about the 30 degree rule, not the 90 degree rule.

You were so quick to scan the article hoping to find something that fit what you believed that you totally missed the highlighted square above what you found. Here is what it states-
Principle 20 The effects of English on the 90° rule
Inside English reduces the object ball angle below 90°, excessive outside English
increases the object angle above 90°, and no English or “gearing” outside English have
absolutely no effect on the object ball angle (see Diagram 1).
• The cue ball’s path is unaffected by side English.
• The technical details can be found in TP A.7.

The 90 degree rule only applies to a sliding cue ball. In all other cases, the English will change the path. This was my point all along.