Help settle a dispute.

[14oneman]

Two friends of mine were playing some Straight this weekend, and a situation came up that I would like your opinions on.

Player "A" scratched. Player "B" has cue ball in the kitchen, which is CLEARLY marked with a sharpie line across the head string on the table's cloth.

The ball he wants to shoot at, is resting or should I say the contact point is resting in the playing area, but part of the total circumference of the ball is over the head string, in the kitchen. Player "A" contends it is not in the playing area, therefore can't be used. Player "B" contends that since the object ball's contact point is resting in the playing area, he can use it.

Who's right?

 

[Skess]

I found this in the General BCA rules. Rule 3.12 would seem to cover it.

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml

 

[Bob Jewett]

I found this in the General BCA rules. Rule 3.12 would seem to cover it.

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml

The rules on that page are a little out of date. The best source for WPA/BCA 2008 rules revision is the WPA website, which has recently been updated. See http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play

Among other things that may be changes to the way some people play cue-ball-in-hand at 14.1 are:

An object ball exactly on the line is playable with ball in hand

If an object ball is just slightly behind the line, for example 2mm behind the head spot, it is now legal to cut the ball back into a head pocket. The only requirement is that the cue ball has passed over the headstring before hitting a ball behind the headstring. The cue ball is no longer required to contact a cushion before hitting a ball behind the line.

If there is a referee, he must not warn you if you place the cue ball over the line. In the old rules, the referee had to warn you or it was not a foul. It is now the player's responsibility to place the cue ball legally.

If all balls are behind the line and there are two closest balls, the player may select which one to spot on the foot spot.

 

[Dave Nelson]

Somewhat similar;

I am in a match. The guy I am playing, who I know very well, is a natural born sharker. He could not not shark if he tried. It is inherent in his nature. I am well aware of this. He also gets very upset if anyone distracts him when he is shooting. I someone starts to tap their cue tip when he is getting ready to shoot he will sit down and glare in their direction until they are through.

So, he scratches. He removes the cue ball from the pocket and places it a few inches from the head string toward the center. there is a ball in the kitchen. As I step toward the table he engages me in conversation totally unrelated to our game. He keeps it up and finally I turn my back on him and look at the table. There is the cue ball and that ball in the kitchen is the obvious Shot. I shoot it. Foul he says. I flick a bead off my score and sit down.

I got too thinking later, was he complicit in the foul for not reminding me he was on a scratch and that I had ball in hand in the kitchen? I think not but just thought I'd toss it out there and see what you think.

Dave Nelson

 

[14oneman]

Thank you, gentlemen, for clearing that up. I'm afraid I'm a little out dated on the rules.

It was actually quite comical, as I was not even there, when this occurred, but received a frantic phone call from them last night, asking for the correct ruling! LOL!!! I told them what I thought, but also told them I was not 100% sure, because certain rules have changed over the years. I'm glad I asked you guys, because it turned out what I thought, was not correct! :embarrassed2:

I owe my two buddies an apology!

Thanks again guys!

 

[Skess]

Among other things that may be changes to the way some people play cue-ball-in-hand at 14.1 are:

An object ball exactly on the line is playable with ball in hand

If an object ball is just slightly behind the line, for example 2mm behind the head spot, it is now legal to cut the ball back into a head pocket. The only requirement is that the cue ball has passed over the headstring before hitting a ball behind the headstring. The cue ball is no longer required to contact a cushion before hitting a ball behind the line.

If there is a referee, he must not warn you if you place the cue ball over the line. In the old rules, the referee had to warn you or it was not a foul. It is now the player's responsibility to place the cue ball legally.

If all balls are behind the line and there are two closest balls, the player may select which one to spot on the foot spot.

Bob, I looked through the link you posted, but was unable to find these additional rules you mentioned. Am I just missing them or is there another source as well?

Scott

 

[dmgwalsh]

Bob, I looked through the link you posted, but was unable to find these additional rules you mentioned. Am I just missing them or is there another source as well?

Scott

1.5 Cue Ball in Hand
......
When the shooter has the cue ball in hand behind the head string and all the legal object balls are behind the head string, he may request the legal object ball nearest the head string to be spotted. If two or more balls are equal distance from the head string, the shooter may designate which of the equidistant balls is to be spotted. An object ball that rests exactly on the head string is playable.


6.10 Bad Cue Ball Placement
When the cue ball is in hand and restricted to the area behind the head string, it is a foul to play the cue ball from on or below the head string. If the shooter is uncertain whether the cue ball has been placed behind the head string, he may ask the referee for a determination.

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.

 

[14oneman]

Bob, I looked through the link you posted, but was unable to find these additional rules you mentioned. Am I just missing them or is there another source as well?

Scott

Scott,

After that first page pops up, look across the top, and you will see tabs, #'s 1 through 9, for various games. Straight Pool is #4. click on that tab, and it will direct you to that page. That is where I found what Bob was referring to, but I think I had to click on a highlighted (blue) link on the 14.1 page to get to it.

Russ

 

[Bob Jewett]

Scott,

After that first page pops up, look across the top, and you will see tabs, #'s 1 through 9, for various games. Straight Pool is #4. click on that tab, and it will direct you to that page. That is where I found what Bob was referring to, but I think I had to click on a highlighted (blue) link on the 14.1 page to get to it.

Russ

The order and arrangement of the rules might be clearer, but there is another problem to avoid which is repeating the same rule in different places. That was a major problem in the previous (pre-2008) version.

It takes about an hour to read through the rules the first time, but I think it's important to do it just so you know the layout and what's covered and where you might find a specific rule later. Don't forget to also read the Regulations. I think most people will be surprised by at least one of the rules.

As for Dave Nelson's situation, I think Dave has two choices: stop playing with a cheat or relax and be amused by his antics. As for calling a foul on the ball in hand situation Dave describes, if I were the tournament director, I'd disqualify Dave's opponent.

 

[Skess]

Thank you gentleman. As I expected, I was looking right past it.

 

[CarlB]

answer

Somewhat similar;

I am in a match. The guy I am playing, who I know very well, is a natural born sharker. He could not not shark if he tried. It is inherent in his nature. I am well aware of this. He also gets very upset if anyone distracts him when he is shooting. I someone starts to tap their cue tip when he is getting ready to shoot he will sit down and glare in their direction until they are through.

So, he scratches. He removes the cue ball from the pocket and places it a few inches from the head string toward the center. there is a ball in the kitchen. As I step toward the table he engages me in conversation totally unrelated to our game. He keeps it up and finally I turn my back on him and look at the table. There is the cue ball and that ball in the kitchen is the obvious Shot. I shoot it. Foul he says. I flick a bead off my score and sit down.

I got too thinking later, was he complicit in the foul for not reminding me he was on a scratch and that I had ball in hand in the kitchen? I think not but just thought I'd toss it out there and see what you think.

Dave Nelson

Dave...


In this situation it would be poor sportsmanship on the part of your opponent. In fact, he is not supposed to remove the cue ball from the pocket and place it back on the table. You remove the cue ball for your shot and place it. The fact that he removed it, placed it, then engaged you in conversation is poor sportsmanship. IF your opponent removes the ball from the pocket after they scratched...they should be forced to inform you they scratched OR be made to hand you the cue ball.

If this happened in a tournament..the TD should be notified of what happened.

JMHO
Carl