Help with cue identification on another unknown.

[Bishop]

I don't know what it is about hoarders and pool cues but this is the fifth cue we've pulled out of a hoarding job in last 3 months. No names, has a few bad marks here and there, maybe not quite ready for a refinish. Veneer work looks nice, faded but looks like orange and green however the photos make it look more yellow than orange. The ring work around the joint doesn't look too shabby either. I don't think the hoppe ring is ivory and its hard to tell from the pictures but its yellowing quite a bit. Its definitely been somebodies player for quite some time judging by the darkening on the shaft. Any ideas? Probably gonna ebay it but I'd like to get at least a baseline before listing if anyone has anything to offer.

Thanks...

 

[SC02GTP]

The ring work look a little like Gilbert?

 

[Chopdoc]

Hmmmm..

Looks a lot like a Mali Vintage series cue.

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[Sniper 55]

That's a Good Looking Cue,, I like the yellow,, Very Unique

 

[Bishop]

Hmmmm..

Looks a lot like a Mali Vintage series cue.

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Does kinda look close. I need a better picture of that Mali though. Two reasons. To look a little closer at the ring work and because the veneer colors look considerably faded in person with the cue I have. So much so I'm wondering if originally they were a lot closer to orange than the slightly yellow we're seeing in the pictures I provided.

I'm guessing that "mali" stamp would come off pretty easy.

Bumper definitely looks different though.

Thanks for the lead.

 

[swilliespeed]

Looks like the Mali cue as described by Chopdoc. Rubber bumber has been replaced, Mali logo rubbed off. Looks solid though. How does it hit?

http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/mali/mali_v-5_pool_cue.htm

 

[measureman]

The rings look just like the standard rail road rings on my Lucasi. Probably a Mali made in the same place as my Lucasi. That would make it a great cue.
Funny thing. If it is a Mali all the web sites say once it is chalked there is no warranty. Lucasi has a lifetime warranty.I guess it depends on who is importing them.

 

[Bishop]

Looks like the Mali cue as described by Chopdoc. Rubber bumber has been replaced, Mali logo rubbed off. Looks solid though. How does it hit?

I didn't spend much table time with it but its got that nice solid hit I expect from a solid stainless steel joint. To be honest it reminds me of a few Schons with similar joints.

Shaft isn't original and slightly warped, butt seems to be pretty good but I didn't scrutinize it.

I found some better pictures and I'm pretty well sold that its the V-5.

http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/mali/mali_v-5_pool_cue.htm

Looks dead on.

I'll probably list it on ebay for 60 bucks. Thanks guys.

 

[Bishop]

In the spirit of fairness I'll address this here so those with strong convictions can assert their opinion as fact.

I'm going to apologize right now for the long post.

I listed this cue as unknown for 99 dollars on ebay. Figuring if it was in fact a Mali that 99 dollars would be more than half off new retail. I received a lot of opinons both here via PM and also on ebay of what the cue actually is. I've heard everything from sportscraft to Lucasi to a tribute cue and other numerous cuemakers.

I admit I hate make assertions I can't personally back up so my listing reads.

Unknown Cue. Unknown weight. Very nice looking veneers with ringwork below the joint. Looks like a solid stainless steel joint. There are no markings or signatures on the cue which is why I'm selling as-is. I really want to talk this cue up because its a nice looking cue but I know how picky cue buyers can be so let me be forthright. The cue shows signs of use, its used...darkening on the shaft, nicks, chips, scratches, yellowing in the white ring at the bottom of the cue but overall the cue still presents well. Cue is marginally straight, I've played with worse at the bar. Looks like the warpage is in the shaft but I'm just eyeballing it.

Since I'm selling as-is, If you have any questions or concerns don't hesitate to contact me and I'll do my best to answer honestly and accurately.

I received a few messages from a guy on ebay who's just up in arms about my listing not including the opinion of those on this forum who have asserted that its a Mali.

his message reads.

If your proud of you 100% rating then just state the cue is a MALI like you now know it is after posting it on AZ and be honest

Now only two people here said it was a Mali. Just two.

I hate making assertions on ebay because anyone can dispute your listing and keep your product while putting a freeze on the money in your paypal account. So my response followed.

I don't know that to be certain. The worst thing I can possibly do on a place like ebay with people like you is make claims I can't back up. Its best to leave the buyer to decide for himself if he wishes to invest his money in something unknown than to invest his money in something I think it is based on the opinion of others I don't know. I know you messaged me because somewhere here you think I'm being dishonest but the reality is that I prefer to protect myself from people who buy things on a whim then demand I partially refund for silly reasons like slightly accurate claims that somehow stand up in absurd ebay disputes. What if the cue is a knockoff or fake? The absolutely safest sell on ebay is to claim nothing and allow the buyer to assume the risk. Its not like I said the ringwork looks like a "gilbert" like someone else claimed on AZ to mislead a buyer. I'm not asking an insane price or offering anything even remotely misleading.

I don't think its fair to fault me for attempting to claim no risk here. On a cue with no markings in an area of expertise that I can't own based on my own personal knowledge. Surely you understand where I'm coming from.

Now that I have time to properly address this. Here's a PM from a cuemaker on AZ. I trust him far more than any of you guys.

"Hey Ryan hope everyone's doing well on your end. I wanted to jump in on that cue but didn't want post in that thread, you know, these people take things so personal. That picture of the Mali was compelling but I really don't think its a Mali. It would most likely take a refinish to remove that Mali name from the Hoppe ring and if the cue was refinished in the last 10 years those veneers wouldn't be as faded as they are. If you really look closely at the veneer colors, even faded, they don't match up that well. My initial thought was an Adam's cue but the other thing to consider which is far more likely is that almost every new cuemaker makes tribute style cues like this because that's what they came up admiring and since its usually one of their first cues they don't sign it. Wish I could offer you more but wanted to give my perspective as well. Anyway we'll be down your way before summer and I look forward to fishing with you guys. Take care."

No shortage of ebay experts.

"Hey bro, its Lucassi. My bro is a dealer and he said it was a Lucassi no question. You might want to change the listing" and "The cue you have listed is a Sportscraft. Sold in department stores like Oshman's. Hate to be bearer of bad news but its worthless."

What happens when the guy who thinks its a Lucasi buys my cue that says "Mali". He files a complaint with ebay asking for a partial refund for misrepresentation. It happens. Look at my prior listings and you'll see a dispute filed on an xbox I sold as broken/not working parts only. This guy didn't like the way the xbox was broken, demanded a 50% refund or negative feedback. Sellers can't leave negative feedback for extortion. ebay is full of people trying to take advantage of sellers, you want to question my integrity for listing something as unknown to save myself some grief on an unmarked cue. Cut me some slack.

So you trust your buddy who is a cue maker that can't wait to go fishing with you this summer more than Chopdoc? Really? Chopdoc has spent countless hours educating himself on cues. Along with others there. They say its a Mali. It's probably a Mali. The correct way to list the cue would be......" The largest pool forum in the world has seen photos of the cue and most think its a Mali or Adam". Just saying its an unknown is wrong on your end. Answer this question for me. If 99% of AZ said it was a Joss West and worth 1500.00 plus would it still be listed as an "unknown" on eBay? I bet not. Good luck with the auction.

I do trust his opinion, Chop that is. Nor have I questioned his opinion but my friend is a well known cue maker, I trust him as well. I thought he offered valid points and the fact remains that the cue has no markings. Is that confusing to you? The cue has no markings. I'm not comfortable offering something I have no ability to back up. If it said Mali I'd sell it as such, but I have received dozens of opinions of what it is. If I was selling on AZ I'd feel a lot better going with the general consensus, it carries weight there. It means nothing on ebay where they can physically put a hold on the money in my account if someone chooses to dispute my assertion for any reason whatsoever. You really seem to have trouble understanding that. Anyone can question my assertions and keep the cue while putting a hold on my money? Is my price deceiving? 99 dollars, less than half of what a new Mali cue would retail for if it is in fact a Mali? If it were a 1500 dollar Joss West I wouldn't sell it on ebay I'd offer it on the forum where those who have made the assertion of what it is can actually back it up. If I list it as a Mali are you going to back it up with your wallet if someone disputes me and I end up losing the cue and my money...I doubt it. Why do you care, why do you feel the need to police my listing because I choose to not list the way you wanted me to? If you don't like my 99 dollar price and refusal to insert every mans opinion of the cue then don't bid. I'm not claiming its something that its not nor should I be obligated to list the opinions of complete strangers. I prefer to allow the seller to decide on their own what they want to spend their money on, no one is forcing anyone to bid and I'm not making any false claims. Ever been to an estate sale, auction house, garage sale, no different. Its up to the buyer to do their homework. It would be one thing if I listed the cue for 1k or something. My god...

I admit that I am going out of my way to not make any assertions about the cue because I don't want a buyer to get the wrong idea after he has my cue in hand and decides to dispute any portion of my listing. Selling as-is allows the buyer to decide if he wants to make the purchase or not. I don't find any problems with this ethically. I'm making zero claims here. Only two people here have said its a Mali and everyone else seems to think they know what it is.

Chop if you're 100% certain of your opinion or if any of you feel as though listing the cue as unknown is wrong with good reason then I'll pull the listing, can't be more fair than that.

No one has bid so I can still pull the listing. I don't want anyone to think my 99 dollar price is designed to steal good money from good people.

After playing with it last night, personally, Mali or not I think the cue is worth 100 bucks easy. If it doesn't sell I'll lower the price until it does.

Dude, its junk. That's why I'm not bidding on it. Sure there are Mali cues worth over 100.00..........Old green label Mali cues. What you have there isn't one.

I've never heard of a green label Mali. McDermott but not Mali. Besides the point though.

I'm a fair guy, should I pull and relist or should this guy take a walk.

 

[Chopdoc]

Hmmmm..

Looks a lot like a Mali Vintage series cue.

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Did I ever say it was a Mali for sure? No. I said it looks like a certain Mali and followed that with question marks.

The Mali is mass produced in Asia and that same factory makes other brands as far as I know. Other brands like Lucasi and in fact others often put out virtually identical cues from the same factory. What's funny is that people will assign such different values to exactly the same cues with different names on them.

I do think it is likely an import of that variety.

The old US made green label Mali cues, especially the old "sideways" logo cues, are indeed collectible to some extent. Obviously this isn't one. I am familiar with those.


I don't think there is anything wrong with your listing. You in fact don't know what it is. And that's it, that's all....nothing more to it.

I was surprised at your starting price only because you said something here about asking less than that. I saw it as soon as it was listed. But I don't think it's necessarily out of line, you can ask what you want for it.



I certainly can't say it is a Mali. But it looks like one of their models. It is likely of the same factory I think.

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[Bishop]

Did I ever say it was a Mali for sure? No. I said it looks like a certain Mali and followed that with question marks.

The Mali is mass produced in Asia and that same factory makes other brands as far as I know. Other brands like Lucasi and in fact others often put out virtually identical cues from the same factory. What's funny is that people will assign such different values to exactly the same cues with different names on them.

I do think it is likely an import of that variety.

The old US made green label Mali cues, especially the old "sideways" logo cues, are indeed collectible to some extent. Obviously this isn't one. I am familiar with those.


I don't think there is anything wrong with your listing. You in fact don't know what it is. And that's it, that's all....nothing more to it.

I was surprised at your starting price only because you said something here about asking less than that. I saw it as soon as it was listed. But I don't think it's necessarily out of line, you can ask what you want for it.



I certainly can't say it is a Mali. But it looks like one of their models. It is likely of the same factory I think.

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Thanks. I appreciate your honesty. I always start my listings high then incrementally go down until it sells. I was originally thinking 60 but after playing with it I felt 99 was a good place to start. Its a nice hitting cue and solid stainless steel joints always seem to be popular.

For all I know it sells for 35 bucks but I felt its only fair to get what I can for it.

Again thanks for your .02. Its always welcome and appreciated.

 

[Chopdoc]

No problem. :thumbup:

There are a lot of people around here that know a lot more than me. I'll tell you if I am certain, and if I say I am certain you can bank on it. I'll tell you what I think as well, and generally it is well thought out.

But I am far from the expert. There are plenty of people that know more than me.



We're talking about a four point veneered cue listed for $100. Hard to get one's panties in a twist over it I would think.

I have genuine Taiwan made, K-mart sold, four veneer four pointers that I wouldn't list that low and that you can't buy from me for that kind of price. In fact you better bring a couple of C-notes for some of them because I know I can get that on the open market (as in Ebay).

The fact is that unknowns do tend to do surprisingly well on Ebay anyway. Weird, but who am I to question it? I guess some are willing to take a shot it might be something. Unknowns typically sell in the $200 range even when there is little hope that they are anything like a custom of any sort. If there is any hope they actually sell for more...sometimes substantially more. It can get positively crazy.

If it's a Mali, it's worth the $100, same with Adam, Lucasi, Viscotti, and the myriad others it could be. (I doubt highly it is an Adam though.) So why the controversy?



Just keep on keeping on....you didn't do anything wrong.




.

 

[Bishop]

So why the controversy?



Just keep on keeping on....you didn't do anything wrong.

Thanks again. I just can't stand it when people come crawling out of the woodwork to demand that you do things their way. This guy was legitimately pissed off at me.

I could understand if I listed the cue for hundreds of dollars or even thousands or made a bunch of "what-if" wild claims. Hopefully it finds a nice home for a hundred bucks and someone will have themselves a nice player.

eBay's been a tough place and I've had a few guys attempt to fraud me for partial refunds, thankfully its 10 here or 20 there and I just cut my losses. I've learned that claiming nothing is better than even the most well intentioned best estimate.