Hercek for Sale

Deno J. Andrews said:
Well, it's not the stock market so it is a little more subjective. I think it's street value is a little more than your quoted range, but maybe not by very much. I have already turned down some offers (before listing it) on the lower side of your range. I think I would look seriously at any decent offers of $3500+ and consider who it would be going to for the offer. So I don't think we are far off in street value. Some guy was nice enough to offer me $1400 for it through ebay. At least I didn't have to think much about that one...

Deno Andrews

Hi Deno, I have a question for you and i've wondered how other pool cue collectors and players who like nice cues feel about this. How do you arrive at a "street value" for a custom cue? Are you factoring in the fact that Joel has a long waiting list to come up with your price? It goes without question that Hercek's are great cues, but I can't help but ask how cue prices are determined. Maybe we can get a comment from cueaddicts since post here and they are cue dealers.

SCCues
 
SCCues said:
Hi Deno, I have a question for you and i've wondered how other pool cue collectors and players who like nice cues feel about this. How do you arrive at a "street value" for a custom cue? Are you factoring in the fact that Joel has a long waiting list to come up with your price? It goes without question that Hercek's are great cues, but I can't help but ask how cue prices are determined. Maybe we can get a comment from cueaddicts since post here and they are cue dealers.

SCCues
----------------
I've seen Joel post on this forum once or twice as well. I'm not sure if he would want to comment on this cue but any insight he can give pertaining to his present pricing structure (and if he's familiar with the "street value" of his cues) would be surely appreciated. ;)
 
UGOTDA7 said:
That looks similar to the one I listed on Ebay a few weeks ago.

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=14786

Yours is a little more rare though as Joel doesn't seem to do as many cocobolo cues. And who doesn't like cocobolo to begin with?

On a whim I was ready to part with mine cheap, but although there were about 50 people watching it no bids were placed. I decided to end it with about two days left.

It seems that summer sales are slow but hopefully you'll get a good offer, it is certainly worth top dollar.

UGOTDA7,

I saw your auction, I liked the cue, and I thought that was a fair price.

I am on Joel's list but I want a 60" cue.

I know this is hard to do, but I suggest listing your minimum like you did or setting a reserve and letting the auctions run their course.

A lot of the buyers (myself included) are using bidding software. I use Bidnapper and it only places the bid with a few seconds left in the auction. My average is 4 seconds before the auction closes.

On several auctions I've been involved with, there were 10 or 12 bids, and all of them were within the last minute or so of the auction! One auction I saw had 6 bids placed within the last 10 seconds.


Chris
 
For me it is really easy. If I am selling a cue I look at it and pretend that someone is offering me money for it. I say to myself...if someone were here and offered me $2000 (or whatever) for the cue would I take it. When I get to a number that I would sell the cue for, that is what it is worth to me. You may look at the cue and hate it and think that the cue is worth half of what I think it is worth. I don't even know how much I have into most of the cues I own. The reality is that custom made cues are worth different amounts for different people. For example, I have this Hercek:
http://www.3cushion.com/On Line Collection/Cues/hercekcoco2004.htm

Dealers and some collectors might look at the cue and say hey, it is a plain four pointer with no inlays...a level 3 in the BB or whatever, and tell you exactly what the cue is worth. I think that's ignorant because two different cues can be in the same level and one is great to look at while the other may be ugly to you or it doesn't appeal to you. Right now, this Hercek in the link might bring $2500 or so if I were to sell it...but despite the fact that there is no inlay work in it, if someone were to offer me $5k for the cue I would tell them to go dangle. The reason is because when you see the cue in person, it is just perfect and stunning. So the street value on the cue might be $2500. But if I saw it for sale for $3000, I would jump on it.

On the contrary, there are some cue makers whose work does not appeal to me in the slightest. If one of those cues came up for sale and the street price was $2000, I would probably pass on it for anything above $1000 because it wouldn't be worth $2k to me, ever.

Being a collector rather than a dealer means that my perspective is different. I don't get in and out of cues to make money. I buy cues that I like and I pay what I think they are worth. It is the same way I buy art...I buy what I like (not caring who made it), I buy quality, and I pay a fair price for it. I really appreciate the work that goes into it...and if you asked around, you would never find a cue maker that I have asked for a discount from because I think it is rude. If I think a cue is priced too high I simply pass on it. Haggling with the maker is what's done in third-world countries.

I hardly ever buy from a dealer because I prefer to work with the cue maker or the original customer. That is not to say that dealing with dealers is bad...in fact, they are great because of the stock they carry and the services they provide. Of course you have to be careful about with whom you deal...but that goes for any industry. I simply prefer to deal with the artisan. And since I don't play with the cues, I am in no hurry to receive them.

So I guess that street price is a variable that is dependent on who is buying on that day and what interests them most. But I do consider that street price is the actual amount that will be spent on the cue, sold within a short time frame. The real value of the cue is what it is worth to me or to you, or to whomever, so it is a variable. However, those two value indicators are mutually exclusive and have little influence on each other.

I love it when someone tries to tell me what a one-of-a-kind cue that I have is worth. I mean, there is only one...and if I am not willing to sell it for less than $x, how can someone say it is worth less? It's sort of funny isn't it? Really, it happens quite often.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but it is sort of how I look at it.

Deno
 
Well again, the price is the high side. I wanted to encourage people to make offers on the cue. I was trying something new with Ebay...but I just don't think people get it yet. I don't expect to receive $4500 for the cue. Certainly if someone had to have it yesterday I would not stop them from buying it now...but really I want to receive offers.
Deno
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
Well again, the price is the high side. I wanted to encourage people to make offers on the cue. I was trying something new with Ebay...but I just don't think people get it yet. I don't expect to receive $4500 for the cue. Certainly if someone had to have it yesterday I would not stop them from buying it now...but really I want to receive offers.
Deno


I like the way you set it up to receive offers. It allows you to retain some control of the process. I may have to give it a try in the future.
 
SCCues said:
Hi Deno, I have a question for you and i've wondered how other pool cue collectors and players who like nice cues feel about this. How do you arrive at a "street value" for a custom cue? Are you factoring in the fact that Joel has a long waiting list to come up with your price? It goes without question that Hercek's are great cues, but I can't help but ask how cue prices are determined. Maybe we can get a comment from cueaddicts since post here and they are cue dealers.

SCCues

Make no bones about it.....cues are ultimately worth what someone will pay

That's a GREAT question... Here are my thoughts:

To determine a "street value" for something like a Hercek, more than likely one would look at what the cue would cost from the cuemaker and then usually add X amount for each year his wait is. Now if the cue is special in design/materials, pictured in a publication, famous player's, etc....or simply a super attractive cue...then maybe its street value would be somewhat more.

We currently have a pretty fancy new Hercek listed that is no doubt priced above what Joel would charge if you were to order it, but I feel its priced reasonably given what we have moved others for as of late (or seen others move for). We may not get what we're asking for this cue but probably close. There's normally some cushion in our prices.

www.cueaddicts.com/newcues.htm

On cues that we routinely order, stock, and turn (Gilberts, Motteys, Black Creeks, etc.), we will stay right around the retail price, but mind you if we personally spend time working with the cuemaker on a unique design, then may add a little for that.

My advice on buying cues is for people to buy what you like. There are so many great cuemakers out there nowadays and the designs and workmanship get better by the day.

Sean
www.cueaddicts.com
 
I agree that Value is relative. Based on the thread, you value the cue between $1500-$4500. That's the bracket of the cue so far. I think that you're making good progress. Many people (me included) are watching this.

On the other hand, people (I'm sure they are many) on the list who are not in a "must have" situation will potentially wait it out as they can amortize payments on the cue even if they budget a substantial mark up on the cue based on current selling prices. This does not really hurt their pocket that much. The only decision they need to make when their name comes up is if they need the money or not. Furthermore, they get a design they want with technical specs (weight, wood choice, balance point etc) they want.

Example: I only need to save $75 per month to get $4500 in 5 years. I don't know if a Hercek will have that market price in 5 years but people can adjust the savings to get a good budget going ($150 to get $9000, $100 to get $6000). The down side is that many things can happen in 5 years. Whatever it is, savings has been increased.

So I think that people on Joel's list has it the other way. Unless they can get a lower amount than their projected budget, they might just risk waiting 5 years. Its not a sudden cash drain and less pressure.

Finally I also think that the maket, cue collectors for really high end cues are thinning out. Hopefully, this does not become a long term scenario. There's still good business going around but I have the impression that its not as much as before;)
 
Cue prices?

cueaddicts said:
Make no bones about it.....cues are ultimately worth what someone will pay

That's a GREAT question... Here are my thoughts:

To determine a "street value" for something like a Hercek, more than likely one would look at what the cue would cost from the cuemaker and then usually add X amount for each year his wait is. Now if the cue is special in design/materials, pictured in a publication, famous player's, etc....or simply a super attractive cue...then maybe its street value would be somewhat more.

We currently have a pretty fancy new Hercek listed that is no doubt priced above what Joel would charge if you were to order it, but I feel its priced reasonably given what we have moved others for as of late (or seen others move for). We may not get what we're asking for this cue but probably close. There's normally some cushion in our prices.

www.cueaddicts.com/newcues.htm

On cues that we routinely order, stock, and turn (Gilberts, Motteys, Black Creeks, etc.), we will stay right around the retail price, but mind you if we personally spend time working with the cuemaker on a unique design, then may add a little for that.

My advice on buying cues is for people to buy what you like. There are so many great cuemakers out there nowadays and the designs and workmanship get better by the day.

Sean
www.cueaddicts.com


Well, i'm satisified with the answers about cue pricing from Deno and Sean. Everything you both said makes perfect sense to me. A cue I love and have to own may not appeal to the next person at all and vice versa. Cues like other things are worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

Thanks for your insight,
SCCues
 
Worth what they'll pay

SCCues said:
Well, i'm satisified with the answers about cue pricing from Deno and Sean. Everything you both said makes perfect sense to me. A cue I love and have to own may not appeal to the next person at all and vice versa. Cues like other things are worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

Thanks for your insight,
SCCues


I agree. I probably paid $100-$150 "too much" for my Gilbert, but it was so awesome looking I had to have it. Not really too much to me.
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
I am selling one of my Hercek cues:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7170722744

The Buy it Now price is $4500 but I have tried the newer Ebay option of having people submit their best offers. If you are interested, please submit your best offer through the Ebay system. Offers between $3500 and the BIN price will be taken very seriously.

Deno J. Andrews

Just wanted to say hi, Deno and let you know I'm watching you : ). Nice cue & thanks for the other day.

Dave Gross
 
It's up for sale again....

Deno J. Andrews said:
I am selling one of my Hercek cues:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7170722744

The Buy it Now price is $4500 but I have tried the newer Ebay option of having people submit their best offers. If you are interested, please submit your best offer through the Ebay system. Offers between $3500 and the BIN price will be taken very seriously.

Deno J. Andrews

OK - it's back up on E-Bay at $3K. Looks like a good deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7171858022&category=21212&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1
 
I had two offers of $3200 that I turned down, since I wanted to get $3500 for it minimum. So I guess with the opening at $3000, it should probably receive some bids. Who knows though...
Deno
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
I had two offers of $3200 that I turned down, since I wanted to get $3500 for it minimum. So I guess with the opening at $3000, it should probably receive some bids. Who knows though...
Deno


How a cue auction will go is worse than speculating on the stock market.

This is kind of risky as the smart bidders will wait until the last minute to show their hand by placing bids and you never know how that will actually play out---no bids, just one bid, a few competing bids?

As I mentioned earlier, I liked the offer set-up you did and think I'll give that a try with my Herceks in the future. Giving up control of an auction just doesn't appeal to me, especially on a cue like a Hercek.

Hopefully it works out for you.
 
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