heres a thought

[av84fun]

The difference is that baseball is an established sport and cemented in mainstream culture now. it's the same in the uk - premiership footballers don't have the greatest image in the world of late - every couple of months there's rape allegations, group orgy stories, and every week a lot of the top players act like overpaid primadonnas with nothing in common with the working man. but still people flock in their thousands every saturday and pack stadiums and watch these players with passion and enthusiasm regardless. Because once the sport is established to the extent that football is, and baseball in america, it takes a lot more than misbehaving stars to unsettle the ship.

But pool is a more delicate situation. it hasn't taken off at all, and isn't a huge popular part of culture. So the behaviour of the players has a bigger effect. I wouldn't go quite as far as what scaramouche said - but he does have a point. The players really do need to be going out of their way to appear friendly and likable, and act in a way that parents would approve of their children looking up to them. Plus the way they dress makes a difference as well. You slip on a tidy shirt instead of a huge baggy t-shirt and you instantly appear more presentable and professional. All of a sudden mommy feels more comfortable with the idea of her baby going up to talk to him.

These things seem trivial but when pool is struggling to establish itself and has a reputation and image like it does then they make a difference.

Everyone has their own sensibilities and citizens of various nations react differently to a given event due to cultural differences.

But in America...for better or worse...while there are some who would share your sensibilities on this matter, the vast majority of people do not.

Throughout our history the "bad boys and girls" of sports and in fact most of the broad entertainment industry, have been among the most popular.

In evidence, I submit Madonna, Hilton, Spears, John McEnroe, Nastasi, Sean Penn, hockey fights, Ultimate Fighting (which I happen to think is barbaric but is nevertheless the fastest growing contact sport in America)...the list could go on and on.

In fact, if you really wanted to juice the popularity of pool, you would have one rack of 9 ball and 2 minutes of mixed martial arts...an idea that is certainly preposterous and certainly would WORK!

More realistically, what pool needs is LESS decorum...not more.

Fans should be allowed to CHEER...whenever they want and boisterously as they want. Why? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO AND THEY ARE PAYING THE BILLS!

That whole "shush up" thing is nonsense. Anyone who thinks that shooting pool requires more "quite concentration" than throwing a strike at 98 mph or draining a jumper from downtown just has no clue.

Half the pool rooms I go into have music blaring...much of which barely qualifies as music.

In the money room at DCC there is NO silence...EVER...the place is jammed and people are walking in and out a few feet from a guy bent over a shot in a match for 10 bags.

But as pro pool match fans, we have to sit their like statues...clap politely after every shot...regardless of whether the difficulty of the shot deserves any applause.

Fans don't like that which is one of the reasons that match attendance is as poor as it is.

Pool nees MORE bad boys like Earl. He ought to bust more cues than he does.

I would estimate that in the past year, Earl has had more posts about him than the next 5 players...COMBINED. Sure, a lot of them are negative but there is no drama without controversy and there is no popularity without drama.

Do you have any idea how much Britany Spears could sell her bio rights for? Millions is the answer

Pool needs DRAMA not shined shoes and starched shirts.

Golf and tennis are the only two major sports where such decorum is required. Regarding golf, the stuffy, country club backgrounds of those who control the sport is the obvious reason. Pretty much ditto for tennis but tell ya what. The absolute hey day of tennis in Ameria was the McEnroe, Nastasi, Connors era.

Back then, there were LONG waits for public tennis courts. Now, I drive by one twice a day and in the past YEAR, I haven't seen 25 people on them.

And the only TV coverage is a few majors and the ratings suck.

Nevertheless, I understand and respect the opinions of those who appreciate player/fan decorum and spiffy attire but for better or worse, it has not, is not and will not attract fan or TV sponsor enthusiam...in America.

Regards,
Jim

 

[emf123]

I just want to apply the baseball analogy a little, from top to bottom:

Major Leagues
Triple A
Double A
Single A
Rookie League
NCAA
High School Varsity
High School Junior Varsity
Babe Ruth
Pony League
Little League
Tee-Ball

If pool was organized at all, the various regional tours could hold events every weekend catering to different levels of players capabilities. It seems like the problem is they all just want to cater to the guys in the 'Big Leagues', and not necessarily to Joe Schmo McBanger or young players.

I think you have to start from the ground up, get the young kids playing and hooked on the game. Keep the room no-smoking and the liquor locked up during "Junior Leagues", so moms won't freak out. If it's structured, people would have something to work towards and maybe more would stick with it. Also, Olympic level status would help a bunch too.

Eric

 

[Dawgie]

Is PI doing something like this in their school system? I agree with starting young. Not only would it promote pool it could be used as a tool to encourage kids to keep up thier marks in school. Bad marks = no pool. If this was taken through the school system to kids, parents, school admin's etc. would be looking for sponsors, scholarships, and a pro arena for them to play.

 

[av84fun]

I must confess, I don't talk to baseball players. But Bobby Cox lived on my floor when he was coaching the Blue Jays. Would he count for anything on your value scale?

And just how many people are paying to see Vick play now?

All Vick's wealth is going out the door. He borrowed money from the Royal Bank. In a recent court ruling he has to repay immediately because he violated various provisions in the loan agreement related to his professionalism, such professionalism being the prerequisite to an opportunity to earn big bucks.

If all you care about is the game, you have a hobby. Quit the incessant b******* about nobody paying you to play.

If you aspire to be a professional, behave accordingly.
And another thing: Ames had no sponsors, only gambling, and no media coverage either.

IMO

You are making three MAJOR mistakes.

1. You are imposing your notion of what "professionalism" is without defining it so that the accuracy of your definition can be assessed.

2. If "professionalism" is defined as the way a large number of professionals behave, then your "make nice/dress spiffy" (my interpretation of your view) is false on its face.

3. You assume that a lack of professionalism...by any definition...would be generally unpopular in America which is a view that is incorrect on its face.

Ever heard of Billy Martin???

LOL

Regards,
Jim

 

[Bigtruck]

Effort

It's a simple business survical issue. lets say there are 4 tours operating in my region. Now as a business owner, am I supposed to work only 1 weekend a month and let my competitors work the other 3 ?

You are kidding, right?

Not Kidding. I'm saying you could make an effort. Co-ordinate with the popular well run events.

Ray

 

[Scaramouche]

For Those Who Don't Read This Subsection Of ABZ

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=97800

 

[ShootingArts]

the other option is dog eat dog

It's a simple business survical issue. lets say there are 4 tours operating in my region. Now as a business owner, am I supposed to work only 1 weekend a month and let my competitors work the other 3 ?

You are kidding, right?

Mike,

Is it better for four tours to put on an event every week? They have as much legal right to hold weekly events as you do and even if you are by far the best promoter and are holding the best event inevitably fields are split. Some from various loyalties, some because a different event is in someone's backyard, some looking for easy pickings where there will be few if any big dogs. Hard for someone in it for the bucks to travel to expect to place top eight in your tournament when they can expect to finish in the top three in a much smaller tournament nearby.

Seems to me that what you are unhappy about now is that the pool world won't work together on a larger scale but you are against working together on a smaller scale. Our local stock car racing was much nicer for the competitors and fans when the track owners got together and chose nights to race on. Since some nights were better than others, they rotated them yearly.

Hu

 

[MikeJanis]

Mike,

Seems to me that what you are unhappy about now is that the pool world won't work together on a larger scale but you are against working together on a smaller scale. Our local stock car racing was much nicer for the competitors and fans when the track owners got together and chose nights to race on. Since some nights were better than others, they rotated them yearly.

Hu

HU, I work together on a smal scale just as much as anyone. Ask my closest competitor Shannon Daulton of the GSBT. When he started his tour just a 2 years ago I helped him in setting up a system so he could make money using tour cards. I also let all of the players from his tour that bought his tour cards compete in the MY Viking Tour Nationals. In addition to that, I offerd TK of the SE tour a position as a Viking Tour director to suppliment his income from the SE tour which he graciously accepted and in the beginning he was our SE region tour director. You will also notice that I work closely with Ceci at the Tiger Tour and as much as I can with Mike Zuglan of the Joss Tour. Get your facts straight. Basically, you could call 8 tours and ask them if I offered help, assistance or sponsorship and the answer from those directors would be yes, 100% of the time.

I don't know how many times I have to say this. The biggest problem is the fact that others do not know the facts and then suggest that each tour work with each other on scheduling dates so only 1 of them has just their event on weekends. Believe me, we all try our hardest to work together as much as possible by staying as far apart on weekends, distance wise as possible but sometimes other circumstances force us to be close, distance wise to each other. What I am unhappy about is the people that can't see the whole picture then make it look like we, the regional tour are doing something wrong and they then offer their better solution. I mean honestly, 7/8ths of the people on AZ forums have never ran a pool related business but 100% of them think they can do it better. I say it all the time... Don't just talk about it, do it. Even if it's wrong. In fact, I said those exact words to Charlie Williams in 2001 at the Viking Tours $25,000 Nationals in Lexington, KY. He subsequently whent straight out and started the UPA and Dragon Promotions.

Hu, if I seem a little *****y, I AM ! Sorry about that, but if you had the week I did you would be to.
I found out Matt, my son, is shipping out to Iraq soon, I whent from sad to mad overnight. Thursday I whent to the Doc for a treatment which ended up giving me 16 shots of medicine directly in my face then he saw a spot on my arm and operated Friday. When I asked if you should do a biopsy 1st he said no need to. Lets get it now then biopsy it later and see if we need more treatment. And then, And then, Anf then.........It's just been one of those weeks and everything is getting to me.

 

[ShootingArts]

well . . .

Mike,

All I'm going to say is that BigTruck and I responded to what you wrote. You know I support pool and I support you but your example was a poor one.

Sincerely sorry about your health issues and few things are as bad as someone you love in harm's way and you can't do anything to help. I have been there. Hope things smooth out for you soon.

Hu

(edited to add PS)
PS I have been involved with promoters and promotions much of the time since 1972. I had an opportunity to buy a half-interest in one of the best weekly venues in the state for $50,000, including the real estate. The real estate was worth three or four times that. I told them I wouldn't take a half partnership for free to keep promoting events there, no time for the headaches. I know all too well the headaches and heartaches of promoters, probably a dozen over the years were close friends. It isn't lack of knowledge that keeps me from getting heavily involved directly in promotion but rather too much knowledge.

Hu

HU, I work together on a smal scale just as much as anyone. Ask my closest competitor Shannon Daulton of the GSBT. When he started his tour just a 2 years ago I helped him in setting up a system so he could make money using tour cards. I also let all of the players from his tour that bought his tour cards compete in the MY Viking Tour Nationals. In addition to that, I offerd TK of the SE tour a position as a Viking Tour director to suppliment his income from the SE tour which he graciously accepted and in the beginning he was our SE region tour director. You will also notice that I work closely with Ceci at the Tiger Tour and as much as I can with Mike Zuglan of the Joss Tour. Get your facts straight. Basically, you could call 8 tours and ask them if I offered help, assistance or sponsorship and the answer from those directors would be yes, 100% of the time.

I don't know how many times I have to say this. The biggest problem is the fact that others do not know the facts and then suggest that each tour work with each other on scheduling dates so only 1 of them has just their event on weekends. Believe me, we all try our hardest to work together as much as possible by staying as far apart on weekends, distance wise as possible but sometimes other circumstances force us to be close, distance wise to each other. What I am unhappy about is the people that can't see the whole picture then make it look like we, the regional tour are doing something wrong and they then offer their better solution. I mean honestly, 7/8ths of the people on AZ forums have never ran a pool related business but 100% of them think they can do it better. I say it all the time... Don't just talk about it, do it. Even if it's wrong. In fact, I said those exact words to Charlie Williams in 2001 at the Viking Tours $25,000 Nationals in Lexington, KY. He subsequently whent straight out and started the UPA and Dragon Promotions.

Hu, if I seem a little *****y, I AM ! Sorry about that, but if you had the week I did you would be to.
I found out Matt, my son, is shipping out to Iraq soon, I whent from sad to mad overnight. Thursday I whent to the Doc for a treatment which ended up giving me 16 shots of medicine directly in my face then he saw a spot on my arm and operated Friday. When I asked if you should do a biopsy 1st he said no need to. Lets get it now then biopsy it later and see if we need more treatment. And then, And then, Anf then.........It's just been one of those weeks and everything is getting to me.