High Technology Vs Custom Cuemakers

[troyroy78]

I was thinking last night when playing what impact new technology makes on the game?

When doing a comparison in Golf for example, now all there clubs use very high technology....which is making the game easier than before.

In pool we have the same type of learning curve which is happening at the moment, however, i thought that if this technology was making the game much easier for players......why is it that not all players are moving over to this?

When i look at the top players in the world..... i see that a certain amount have adopted to high technology equipment whilst others have stuck with standard maple shafts.

I look at the top Asian players and in Taiwan most pro's will use Southwest or other high end cuemakers cues using original shafts.

Could you please share your opinions on this subject? i am interested on peoples point of view regarding this subject



Matty maybe you could offer some insight into why the Taiwanese love using custom cues so much?



Thanks



Roy

 

[tasaddicts]

i prefer southwest to any technological shafts or cues!!!

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Old World Craftsmanship

The cue I play with and own is made by a guy who has the same principle as many of the other cue makers out there and that is because they first love the game. They have a passion for excellence and that includes reputation. When that is at stake, you'd better believe there's going to be care in the construction process. With that said, I've read up on some of the philosophies of Mike Lambros, Paul Dayton, Joel Hercek, and have also talked to Buddy Hall who openly admits Eddie Farris is the best in the world when it comes to shafts. His philosophy is one that entails one man building one cue from start to finish. He explained to me that through the production cue process or CNC machinery, there is something taken from the cue that should've never been messed with. The production cues like the Mezz I owned for instance, may have been perfectly constructed and hit with dependability, but you can't replace the time it takes for a real craftsman to construct a cue from start to finish. There's just something about that that I can't explain... maybe he could. :thumbup:

 

[gunzby]

Comparing golf to pool is outrageous equipment-wise. In golf there will always be a new polymer or new metal. For pool it will be wood. You can make the argument for fiber glass, but come on.

 

[skor]

Comparing golf to pool is outrageous equipment-wise. In golf there will always be a new polymer or new metal. For pool it will be wood. You can make the argument for fiber glass, but come on.

I disagree!
If there was money in pool as in golf you would have seen more technology going into equipment and mostly into cues, you would have more "technology enhanced" cues manufacturers and more sponsorship from such companies to pro players and most pros would end up using these hi-tech cues.
This process would make amateurs pick up on these hi-tech cues as amateurs usually follow the pros.
When this time will come, custom cues will be a thing of the past and will only be collected, just like a cop will use his "production" gun on the job and not the custom curved "one of a kind" gun he got as a present form someone...

Today, pool is really not consider a sport, not even by the pros!!! It's a game.... this may also explain why pros have a dress code and not wearing sportswear, just imagine the money that could be in pool if Nike, Adidas and such will enter pool... It's not a sport, not yet...
For a player to use a $3000 custom cue on league night is the same as wearing a Rolex when going to work at a factory...

If you look at my logic then you should also ask why people spend high $$$ on custom cue case that only needs to protect the cues while carrying them... Some of these case don't even leave the house...

The answers are really simple, they do that because they can!!!

All the reasons for using points, inlays, rings and splice construction are no longer valid in today's world with the available technology.... Today it is just to make the cue look pretty...
Any excuse for "feel", "hit" or "playability" is plain BS!!! Hi-tech cues require getting used to them and given the time to adjust any player will swear by them...

Pro players are players that have been working on their game for years, even young players that you see have years of work behind them that got them to a pro status. The saying "Can't teach new tricks to old dogs" is valid here as well.

 

[Danktrees]

i dunno about players swearing to hi tech cues if they stick to em for a while. i used a predator for over 6 months and it just pissed me off. maybe 6 months wasnt a long enough time, but it got to the point where i just became more and more frustrated with the cue. so even if i extended it to a year of use i'd probably just end up not liking it even more. it wasnt like i couldnt sink the balls or anything, i just hated how it felt. that was something i could never get used to. when i switched back, i was still able to pot balls even with the increased deflection and was much happier with a solid.

 

[troyroy78]

So is it that Deflection, is highly overated with all this high tech equipment?

From what i think reading between the lines, is that using a normal maple shaft will allow you to improve and build a solid stroke..................

Whilst the high tech equipment allows for players to get there especially if they don't have a partically solid stroke

Do you think high tech equipment will make a big impact on custom cuemakers?

 

[JoeyInCali]

:wink:

Do you think high tech equipment will make a big impact on custom cuemakers?

You don't see Tad, Gina, SW, Hercek, Black Boar, DS or Scruggs boring the front end of their shafts and using reallllly soft ferrule, do you? :wink:

 

[Matt90]

good wood

I will take a good quality shaft made buy a cuemaker over any
gimmick /low deflection shaft. :grin:

 

[1pRoscoe]

I will take a good quality shaft made buy a cuemaker over any
gimmick /low deflection shaft. :grin:

you can say that again.........

best shaft in the world is old maple with an ivory ferrule.... not something with "eleventybillion layers and sasquatch foreskin tip"

 

[Big C]

:wink:
You don't see Tad, Gina, SW, Hercek, Black Boar, DS or Scruggs boring the front end of their shafts and using reallllly soft ferrule, do you? :wink:

I suppose it could be due to the liability of patent infringement. Do any of those cuemakers make a better playing cue than predator, cuetec, ob1? Possibly, but opinions vary, mainly due to bias. But the numbers don't lie. LD shafts do what they promise. So now that golf and billiard equipment is much better than it was 30 years ago, why is it that most people don't play any better than the people that did with inferior equipment so long ago? The answer is bad practice habits and poor teaching. People are looking for that magic wand, but they don't want to put in the time and effort to improve their abilities. There are still people out there teaching ghost ball and parallel english and when the student doesn't improve they blame their equipment and buy something new hoping that it will miraculously change their game. They may see some initial improvement, but it is all mental and the placebo effect soon wanes.

 

[Fatboy]

you can say that again.........

best shaft in the world is old maple with an ivory ferrule.... not something with "eleventybillion layers and sasquatch foreskin tip"

well said!!

 

[NateSchoepf]

well as a newer player myself, I started with the maple shaft and used it for 1 year, I then switched to a predator shaft and my game improved a lot, not just my opinion but others who I played against, I think the fact that I didnt have to have the best stroke to draw the ball and that when I did not hit center cue ball it still stayed in line gave me a lot confidence.

I know players who have tried these shafts and have gone back to the plain maple shaft and for good reason, they were used to it and the deflection was part of there game and there aiming.

So, maybe its just a matter of what you have been using and what you are used to.

As far as looks of a cue, whatever gives you more confidence is the best, if you think you look good and play better with that cue then you will play better. To each his own.

 

[skor]

So is it that Deflection, is highly overated with all this high tech equipment?

Deflection due to side spin is probably the #1 reason for missing a shot... so I wouldn't call a shaft that reduce this effect as overrated.

From what i think reading between the lines, is that using a normal maple shaft will allow you to improve and build a solid stroke..................

Whilst the high tech equipment allows for players to get there especially if they don't have a partically solid stroke

A good, straight and smooth stroke is something that a good player needs regardless of the shaft he uses.
In fact lower deflection shafts such as the Z shaft requires a straighter stroke then "old school" shafts because just a hair off center and you get ton of spin that may cause a miss (especially on long shots).

Do you think high tech equipment will make a big impact on custom cuemakers?

Not in the near future....

You don't see Tad, Gina, SW, Hercek, Black Boar, DS or Scruggs boring the front end of their shafts and using reallllly soft ferrule, do you?

How many pros use these cues/shafts in tournament play?
How many pros use lower deflection shafts (even on those high end custom cues) without getting paid to use them?
The numbers speak for themselves!!!

So now that golf and billiard equipment is much better than it was 30 years ago, why is it that most people don't play any better than the people that did with inferior equipment so long ago?

Says who?
Do you remember the size of the pockets 30 years ago? The overall level of player has gone up, the competition in the last few years on the international level is so high that it is impossible to pick a winner in any international tournament... while 30 years ago you had like 5 players that were the sure winners....
I agree that the level of American players has gone down compared to the rest of the world and could be due to the reasons you gave ("The answer is bad practice habits and poor teaching") but I'm sure that there are other reasons as well.

 

[Rak9up]

top 10 tecnological pool needs

1. An auto aiming cue with no deflection

2. Permanent chalk (1 time application for life of cue)

3. Unrippable cloth

4. Digital lasar diamond system (point your cue have the table show angles)

5. Auto leveling pool table (press a button and the table auto levels)

6. GPS trackers inside the cue (antitheft device)

7. Card scanners on pool table that debits a set amount from both players prior to playing (winner swipes debit card to recieve winnings)

8. Automated racker like at the bowling alley a triangle pops up from beneath the table

9. Flesh colored pool gloves that look like skin (because gloves are gay)

10. Levitating pads for moving pool tables cause their heavy

 

[Big C]

1. An auto aiming cue with no deflection

2. Permanent chalk (1 time application for life of cue)

3. Unrippable cloth

4. Digital lasar diamond system (point your cue have the table show angles)

5. Auto leveling pool table (press a button and the table auto levels)

6. GPS trackers inside the cue (antitheft device)

7. Card scanners on pool table that debits a set amount from both players prior to playing (winner swipes debit card to recieve winnings)

8. Automated racker like at the bowling alley a triangle pops up from beneath the table

9. Flesh colored pool gloves that look like skin (because gloves are gay)

10. Levitating pads for moving pool tables cause their heavy

I'm pretty sure Hillbilly would take exception to this and would probably sink his right foot in your crotch if you said that within ear-shot.

 

[RRfireblade]

There is WAY more impact from equiptment on the game of golf than there could ever be in a simple game like pool.

Deflection , being pretty much the only real variable "performace" wise , is insanely subjective.

While the top golfers in the world take every technological advantage available to them , many of the world best pool players won't play with a 'High End' shaft and it hurts them in absolutely no way.

Pool is just too simple a game , equiptment/mechanics wise , IMO.

 

[sygfrid]

IMO, NEW doesn't always mean BETTER. :wink:
**

If an equipment compensates for my mistakes by translating WRONG as RIGHT, how will I learn that what I've done is wrong? If I keep on doing the same mistakes since the outcome is always "right" due to the "compensating" properties of the equipment, then I will always be dependent on such equipment and I may never learn to correct my mistakes.

However, if an equipment translates WRONG as WRONG and RIGHT as RIGHT then won't I be forced to learn how to do things correctly even if I suddenly switch to the compensating equipment?

I guess the statements above are applicable to both traditional & "technological" craftsmanship of cues.
**

Going back to the original post, I believe the term "technology" is quite vague. Which technology is being referred to (ie making low-grade wood perform like a high quality one just like laminates vs an old-growth one)?
**

Sorry Skor but I believe "feel" is important. Without feel, how can our brain process the data correctly? If there is more data collected, then there is more data that can be processed. For example, if you hold a butterfly in your hand, how would you know how tight or loose you should hold it so as not to kill it or set it free? Feel helps you determine how fast your stroke should be in order to make the cue ball draw back to where you want it to be in the first place. It is through feel that we learn subconsciously, that's why there are shots that "you just know" how to handle without analyzing it anymore.

I guess that in the end, we will all agree that it will boil down to personal preference: if it works for you, then great! Besides, the best technology we all have is our brain. Through it, we learn to adjust to any equipment at hand to perform the desired outcome :wink:

 

[skor]

Sorry Skor but I believe "feel" is important. Without feel, how can our brain process the data correctly? If there is more data collected, then there is more data that can be processed. For example, if you hold a butterfly in your hand, how would you know how tight or loose you should hold it so as not to kill it or set it free? Feel helps you determine how fast your stroke should be in order to make the cue ball draw back to where you want it to be in the first place. It is through feel that we learn subconsciously, that's why there are shots that "you just know" how to handle without analyzing it anymore.

No disagreement there! "feel" is important but "feel" is something you learn and adjust. You will kill the butterfly before you'll learn how tight you can close your hand without killing it...

Pool is a "memory game", every time you take a shot you store data of the shot, you store data of the stroke and aim and vibration of the cue etc. How many time you "knew" that the a shot was successful just from the vibe of the cue, before the OB dropped and the CD stopped? So yes feel is important but you can relearn any cue!!

 

[skor]

There is WAY more impact from equiptment on the game of golf than there could ever be in a simple game like pool.

Deflection , being pretty much the only real variable "performace" wise , is insanely subjective.

While the top golfers in the world take every technological advantage available to them , many of the world best pool players won't play with a 'High End' shaft and it hurts them in absolutely no way.

Pool is just too simple a game , equiptment/mechanics wise , IMO.

I disagree.

Pool equipment it's not just the cue, what about the balls and the table and the parts of the table - cloth, rails, slate.
If pool was so simple then people would have stopped playing it ages ago... there are many variable that comes to play and many of them can be easier to deal with with better equipment.