Hitting the side of the rack for a safe

akaTrigger

Hi!
Silver Member
Lately, I've tried to hit the side of a complete rack for a safe, but the cueball doesn't stop in the rack snug sometimes and moreso, a few balls come out the top or bottom and I sell out some shots.

Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong?

I'm not hitting the rack too hard, but I am trying to get a ball to rail.

Maybe that's my problem?

Do I hit head-on to the object ball where the cueball is facing? Or do I need to nestle between two balls?

Thanks. :eek:
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
side rack safety?

Well im not sure what you are asking.

On the opening break shot?if so the traditional break is the only way that generally will work.2 to 3 balls to the rails and back toward stack and the cue bal 4 rails to back corner of table.

When you are forced to play a safety after the opening break has already occured?most of the time safety will be just thinning balls and stay on the bottom rail till someone leaves an open shot.

When the break ball has been pocketed and there is a 14 ball rack together and you are at the top rail.If so and you have a straight shot at the 2 front balls just aim at one of them with kill english(slow bottom stun or top english will good ball speed)and most of the time a ball or 2 will make it to the back rail and your opponent will have no open balls to shoot.
Bobby Chamberlain
 

BigCat

The Panda Diaries
Gold Member
Silver Member
Lately, I've tried to hit the side of a complete rack for a safe, but the cueball doesn't stop in the rack snug sometimes and moreso, a few balls come out the top or bottom and I sell out some shots.

Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong?

I'm not hitting the rack too hard, but I am trying to get a ball to rail.

Maybe that's my problem?

Do I hit head-on to the object ball where the cueball is facing? Or do I need to nestle between two balls?

Thanks. :eek:

Hey Trigger,

There could be a few reasons why this may be happening. Here are a few questions to ask yourself:

- Which ball in the stack are hitting?
- How hard are you really hitting the cue ball?
- What kind of english are you applying to the cue ball?
- Are you hitting the object ball full?

Any one of these things could be causing you to not execute a correct safe on the stack.

The ideal ball to hit on the stack is the second ball. But realistically, it's whatever ball you can hit that has a path from cue ball to object ball that is most orthogonal to the side of the stack (the path that is most perpendicular to the stack). This way you can hit the ball full in the face. This will transfer most of the energy to the ball behind the object ball that you are hitting and cause a chain reaction that will have less effect on the adjacent balls.

The speed at which you hit the cue ball is fairly important, but not the most critical piece. You can still over-hit the cue ball without completely selling out, but if the object ball you strike comes back and pushes the cue ball back (or you simply hit the stack too hard), then there is a good chance for a sell out.

I've always found hitting the cue ball with no english yields the best results, but I would definitely experiment here. And most importantly, hit the object ball completely full (so that the cue ball doesn't deflect off at any angle). Overall, for me, the most important factor is knowing which ball to hit in the stack. When that becomes more obvious, I think you'll have better results.

Good luck.

Ray
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lately, I've tried to hit the side of a complete rack for a safe, but the cueball doesn't stop in the rack snug sometimes and moreso, a few balls come out the top or bottom and I sell out some shots.

Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong?

I'm not hitting the rack too hard, but I am trying to get a ball to rail.

Maybe that's my problem?

Do I hit head-on to the object ball where the cueball is facing? Or do I need to nestle between two balls?

Thanks. :eek:

In general you want to hit a ball full-on rather than hitting between 2 balls. Also, you have to hit along the line of 2 or 3 frozen balls so that the energy is transmitted to the last ball, sending it to a rail. So you can't always play safe into the side of the rack. The cue ball has to be in the right general area in order for you to (1) hit the first ball full, and (2) hit that ball in line with the other ball(s) behind it.

Also, you must be sure you have plenty of follow on the cue ball. It tends to want to bounce off the rack, and the follow assures that the cue ball stays put after hitting the first ball. Try different speeds and angles and you'll quickly see what works and what doesn't.

Good luck.
 

akaTrigger

Hi!
Silver Member
In general you want to hit a ball full-on rather than hitting between 2 balls. Also, you have to hit along the line of 2 or 3 frozen balls so that the energy is transmitted to the last ball, sending it to a rail. So you can't always play safe into the side of the rack. The cue ball has to be in the right general area in order for you to (1) hit the first ball full, and (2) hit that ball in line with the other ball(s) behind it.

Also, you must be sure you have plenty of follow on the cue ball. It tends to want to bounce off the rack, and the follow assures that the cue ball stays put after hitting the first ball. Try different speeds and angles and you'll quickly see what works and what doesn't.

Good luck.

Thanks! I wasn't hitting head on, and I think too hard, too. I have a match tonight, hope this shot come up :)

Hey Trigger,

There could be a few reasons why this may be happening. Here are a few questions to ask yourself:

- Which ball in the stack are hitting?
- How hard are you really hitting the cue ball?
- What kind of english are you applying to the cue ball?
- Are you hitting the object ball full?

Any one of these things could be causing you to not execute a correct safe on the stack.

The ideal ball to hit on the stack is the second ball. But realistically, it's whatever ball you can hit that has a path from cue ball to object ball that is most orthogonal to the side of the stack (the path that is most perpendicular to the stack). This way you can hit the ball full in the face. This will transfer most of the energy to the ball behind the object ball that you are hitting and cause a chain reaction that will have less effect on the adjacent balls.

The speed at which you hit the cue ball is fairly important, but not the most critical piece. You can still over-hit the cue ball without completely selling out, but if the object ball you strike comes back and pushes the cue ball back (or you simply hit the stack too hard), then there is a good chance for a sell out.

I've always found hitting the cue ball with no english yields the best results, but I would definitely experiment here. And most importantly, hit the object ball completely full (so that the cue ball doesn't deflect off at any angle). Overall, for me, the most important factor is knowing which ball to hit in the stack. When that becomes more obvious, I think you'll have better results.

Good luck.

Ray

Thank you, Ray. So full hit, no English, second ball (if I can). Awesome info!



Well im not sure what you are asking.

On the opening break shot?if so the traditional break is the only way that generally will work.2 to 3 balls to the rails and back toward stack and the cue bal 4 rails to back corner of table.

When you are forced to play a safety after the opening break has already occured?most of the time safety will be just thinning balls and stay on the bottom rail till someone leaves an open shot.

When the break ball has been pocketed and there is a 14 ball rack together and you are at the top rail.If so and you have a straight shot at the 2 front balls just aim at one of them with kill english(slow bottom stun or top english will good ball speed)and most of the time a ball or 2 will make it to the back rail and your opponent will have no open balls to shoot.
Bobby Chamberlain

Thank you, Bobby. It was for 14 balls in the rack, not a full rack, and hitting it on the side of the rack. My apologies for the confusion.
 

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Sounds like you're hitting it too hard. If you're thinning a ball, hitting a rail and coming back to the rack, I think its better (most times) to hit softer rather than harder. But its a touch shot, you gotta hit it with good speed. I don't know if it helps or not, but I normally hit a shot like this with follow and hope to hit a ball square rather than between balls.

yea.. I didn't see Dan White's reply... basically the same thing.
 

akaTrigger

Hi!
Silver Member
Sounds like you're hitting it too hard. If you're thinning a ball, hitting a rail and coming back to the rack, I think its better (most times) to hit softer rather than harder. But its a touch shot, you gotta hit it with good speed. I don't know if it helps or not, but I normally hit a shot like this with follow and hope to hit a ball square rather than between balls.

yea.. I didn't see Dan White's reply... basically the same thing.

I was referring to hitting the rack solid and sticking whitey, not thinning balls. Man, I'm bad at describing things, lol.

Thanks for the help, Big Tony. :)
 

alinco

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll reiterate what's already been said since it is so crucial...you must hit a ball as straight on as possible. Follow is also needed to keep the object ball from pushing the cue ball. Using no follow will result in a "push-back" of about an inch which is often a sell out.

The other point that I feel is critical is that the balls are frozen. If you look at the straight line of the object ball you are hitting, determine which ball is headed towards the rail. Make sure the balls are frozen along that path through the rack. If they aren't frozen, you may want to opt for thinning instead of sticking.

I experimented once moving the cue ball all the way from the corner pocket up to the side pocket. Below the rack near the corner pocket just doesn't work. Slightly above the rack all the way up to the 3rd diamond always has a workable stick shot on a reasonably tight rack.

Good luck!
Andy
 

alinco

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another finer point worth mentioning that I forgot. It's of course best to be hitting one of the inner two balls in the line of 4 on the side of the rack. I actually hit the object ever so slightly off center favoring the safer side.

So if I'm hitting the ball next to the corner ball, I aim off center away from that ball. If I'm hitting the ball next to the top of the rack, I aim off center away from the top ball.

By "off center" I mean like about an eight of an inch. Just barely off center.

And be sure you've got a little follow and the path through that rack is tight.

Hope that was clear enough!

Andy
 

akaTrigger

Hi!
Silver Member
Thank you guys!! I was able to use this safe three times in my match tonight and each one was successful, due to your advice! :)

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I experimented once moving the cue ball all the way from the corner pocket up to the side pocket. Below the rack near the corner pocket just doesn't work. Slightly above the rack all the way up to the 3rd diamond always has a workable stick shot on a reasonably tight rack.

Good luck!
Andy

Thanks for saving me the effort! I've had trouble getting good results with the cue ball above the rack (just below the side pocket), but maybe I'm going slightly higher than you recommend at 3 diamonds. I've never looked at how much a gap in the balls (rather than frozen all the way through the rack) affects the results. I'll have to play around with that.
 

akaTrigger

Hi!
Silver Member
Thank you guys!! I was able to use this safe three times in my match tonight and each one was successful, due to your advice! :)

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Two Mondays ago I had to play this safe a lot, and almost every time a ball came out and he was left with a shot. I don't understand why it didn't work much this match, unlike my last match where I was so successful. :banghead:

I had to hit hard enough to get a rail, guess each time was still too hard.
 

Demondrew

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is one of the shots I work on in practice. It is amazing how soft you can hit the rack in the right place and get the balls slightly apart and one to a rail. ALWAYS check the rack for loose balls it can make a world of difference in how and if the balls come out of the rack.

Andy
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Two Mondays ago I had to play this safe a lot, and almost every time a ball came out and he was left with a shot. I don't understand why it didn't work much this match, unlike my last match where I was so successful. :banghead:

I had to hit hard enough to get a rail, guess each time was still too hard.

Hi Trig!

Andy's advice is EXCELLENT, and spot-on. The keys to these "stick whitey" safeties:

1. A "near" dead-center hit. "Near" dead center means if the cue ball deflects a bit off of the object ball, it will err on the safe side of the ball (i.e. more towards the "more middle" balls), rather than to the unsafe side of the object ball, which would be closer to the corner ball. I guess it really depends on the situation, as I personally have had good results with an absolute dead-center hit, and I trust my stroke and aim to get the cue ball there. It's rare that I don't glue the cue ball to the object ball.

2. Use follow (top) on the cue ball. This is important, because as Andy succinctly states, the cue ball will want to "bounce backwards" off of the object ball. It's a basic principle of physics; a lower-mass object (cue ball) hitting a heavier/denser mass object (i.e. the rack), results in the cue ball losing that battle. Follow (top) on the cue ball compensates for this.

3. Pick a line of balls in the rack that is closest to your cue ball's line of sight. That is, as you get behind the cue ball to aim it into one of the four balls on the side of the rack, pick the ball that presents to you the straightest line (i.e. row of balls behind it) through the rack. Obviously, you'll be fortunate if you are perfectly in-line with one of the four rows, as all you'll have to do is hit that first ball square to send that row of ball's very last ball into the facing cushion, and stick whitey on that first ball.

4. Practice these safeties on your own -- rack up 14 balls in the standard way, place the cue ball at various places and angles, and hit a safety shot. When you feel comfortable with doing these safeties, try altering step 3 slightly, and intentionally select a row of balls away from the "optimum in-line-with-the-cue-ball" row. Say, one row over to the left or right (but still away from the corner ball itself). Hit the safety just a wee bit harder, still gluing the cue ball to that first ball with follow (top), and watch what happens. Rather than one or two balls popping out to the far cushion, you'll open-up the rack on the far side more, and "test" your opponent. One of two things will happen: either the opponent will then engage you in the standard three-foul initiation process, or he/she will try something dangerous (e.g. kicking at a ball, thinning the ball that the cue ball is glued onto and trying to come back into the rack, etc.). It's that latter instance you're hoping for, because now that the rack is more open than usual, you are more likely to end up with a shot.

As Andy states, there is a set of diminishing returns with selecting non-optimum rows of balls to stick whitey to, where you'll want to opt for a "thinning" safety instead. A good example is when the cue ball is near one of the bottom corner pockets and you're presented with one of the corners of the rack to play safe off of. It really depends on the angle, of course, but a common technique here is to thin the far corner ball (the ball in the last row furthest away from you), and have the cue ball contact the side cushion, and back behind the rack again.

Hope this helps!
-Sean
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
Some great info you got here. When you practice these, I would recommend thinking about what your opponent would do next and execute that follow-up shot, too. It'll give you a greater feel for the speed with which to hit your safety shots to begin with. Ideally, what you want to achieve is a legal safety, plus whenever possible to leave an open object ball each on two sides of the rack (= don't hit the safety so hard that the object ball comes back to the rack), and the cue ball on the third.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
The side of the rack safe won me my 14.1 League match on sunday.

I was playing up to speed yet because of my multi month layoff and the score was too close to risk the game on the breakshot, so when i needed like 7 to win and my opponent needed 5 i played the safe and nailed it. knocking out like 4 balls which were too much for my opponent to successfully defend. i then ran out my remaining points for the Big W. winning my match 125 - 105 !!!!


-Steve
 
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