Holding visual focus

On clench shots, I find myself focusing only on the OB going into the pocket. On other shots, I find my focus is shifted anywhere from slightly to a lot on the cue ball's action after the shot. On a "gimmie" shot with natural leave, my focus shifts slightly to leave. On a shot where I must break a cluster or get pinpoint position, my focus shifts a lot more to the cue ball's behavior.

So... this might not be what you want to hear (or even correct lol) but I think our intention will vary depending on the shot. Frozen to a rail or jacked up over balls, our intention (and visual focus) shifts to the CB and avoiding fouling. Safety play, our intention should shift almost 100% to cueball leave and speed control.
Good thoughts there... Thus far I've only been considering a standard 'potting' approach. Makes total sense that the focus of intention shifts toward the key aspect of the shot at hand.

I have fallen victim too many times to not paying enough attention to the OB when attempting a safe with CB position.
 
I find this section of your post and especially the bolded portion interesting after watching the video you suggested. Within the video the instructor comments on how we don't and shouldn't pay attention to the golf club, much like the ball we're throwing, or the cue when playing snooker. The intention is the end result, not the process we use to reach it.
It appears you got a mixed message when it comes to the intention concept.
You still need to organize your body and your cue in order to get a final result.
He did another video on this that is likely better.
The word intention was in the video name, which fooled me.
I really intended to link you to this presentation instead.
Hope it helps.
have
I think my problem with a fixed position is that it makes a photo out of a movie.
The stroke is a whole dynamic way of purposeful movement if driven by intent.
And while movements may appear to stop, I’m reminded of a spring.
It takes time for a spring to compress and coil, but that is what translates it into positive action.
The intention is part of the mental and physical coiling, never static.
 
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It appears you got a mixed message when it comes to the intention concept.
No I think I'm interpreting what he is trying to convey in a different manner than you are. I watched the second video and it really just fortified what I took from the first.

So I quoted the chunk below from the second video, that jumps out to me as exactly what I'm doing with the prolonged OB focus.

"The grip is constraint. The stance is a constraint. The club*** face is a constraint. All these constraints should be organizing themselves organically around the intention. Now If you got a problem trusting yourself. Don't go back to checking visually where you are, because you'll never trust yourself". "In order to trust yourself. You got to take the leap of faith"....

***Replace "club" with "aim", and it quite literally is exactly my take on ignoring the cue/CB relation once the aim has been set.

If you trust your mechanics (aka: have faith) then there's no need to pay attention to anything other than the OB. You could say that the intention is to pot the ball, so I shouldn't be focusing on the OB but rather the successful outcome of the shot. My take on that is that the OB falling in the hole will take care of itself if the CB/OB contact is correct, so why bother thinking about the outcome.
 
In your search for those last few pieces to push your game ahead, there seems to be an inner acknowledgement that it’s what’s in your head during the last few milliseconds.
I agree.
There also seems to be an inner awareness that it’s in what and how we experience the shot with our senses.
You maybe related to the larger ball/larger hole, having experienced it.
On many shots I see players relating more to the larger ball and it’s details.
This allows them to see the ball with an added level of certainty feeding their expectation of success.
I see matches where it’s obvious that one player is seeing the larger hole, too.
The ball goes cleanly down the rail into the opening for them, while others skim the rail, still making the ball but the fatter or thinner hit throws off position just that little bit.
There are plenty of “intention” details that we have to choose from that, as you noted, can often make up the shot keys for the current situation.
Ramping up that level of certainty and expectation when we can see the bigger balls and bigger pockets to the shot picture are just one.
Jeremy Jones always sees, in his commentary, the difference between the stock paths a natural shot offers and the nuance of the current shot.
He calls them shot keys.
They need to be part of that mental content, a calibrated intention, recognizing, like the golf pro noted, the slope of the area coming into the green.
Pulling each of these elements together in the right proportions offers a whole variety of tools to bring to decision making and perception.
BTW, I’m on your side, wanting to just provide you with resources and insights to help build your own “beast” mode.
 
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BTW, I’m on your side, wanting to just provide you with resources and insights to help build your own “beast” mode.
I didn't doubt that for a moment. ...and please view my counters to your comments as an effort to dig into the subject and not just gleen face value.
 
I didn't doubt that for a moment. ...and please view my counters to your comments as an effort to dig into the subject and not just gleen face value.
I take it as a communications, shared understanding thing.
Questions and comments give value to the conversation, building a bigger picture, with detail.
Detail without meaning is just data.
 
The grip is constraint. The stance is a constraint. The club*** face is a constraint. All these constraints should be organizing themselves organically around the intention.
The idea of constraints in this context relates to motor skill development.
Nikolai Bernstein, a Russian Neurophysiologist, provided us with an understanding of the degrees of freedom problem in motor learning.
There are an infinite number of ways we an execute a skill, but they use competing resources, that force us to choose.
The solution is to constrain action, limiting what resources can be used in a context, it’s a natural part of learning.
I call them training wheels because they force compliance within a range.
I believe that success channels movement making constraints redundant.
Taking off the training wheels allows you to explore, like you are doing now.
You may need to constrain something else in order to free formerly constrained action.
Think Fosbury flop, re-thinking a motor skill.

Several adages come to mind.
You don’t know what you don’t know.
If what you are doing isn’t getting you what you want, do something else, anything else.
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

By combining these perspectives you realize that doing something other than what you have been doing, is the path to finding out what you don’t know and new ways of doing.
 
...doing something other than what you have been doing, is the path to finding out what you don’t know and new ways of doing.
Exactly... ....and while attempting to break out of my mold I have discovered some realities about certain aspects of my shot process. That's what spurred this thread into being. I wanted to know if others were actually doing what I had been, and how many were attempting what I'm currently trying.

I believe holding OB focus for a prolonged period is counter intuitive for us, and we by nature 'need' to verify our 'faith' in the shot before pulling the trigger. I have no doubt that some/most will transistion their focus from CB to OB at the moment prior to 'pulling the trigger' with the shot stroke. However this is more of a "god I hope this works" transistion, rather than "I know this is good".

What switching my focus early (2-3 feathers before shooting) has done, is instilled confidence in my mechanics and ability to set up the shot. I don't need to verify my faith. That "god I hope this works" transistion of focus is being minimized. Not gone, but doubt is taking a back seat.

Most of the realisations above seem to be born from a relatively weak minded player, but it's really just an honest disclosure of what's going on.

I really don't know if I will gain any notable benefit from the experiment, but if nothing else it's been refreshing to have a slightly different point of view.
 
I'm posting this because I'm curious if others are like myself, and just 'think' they're a "this ball last" player or actually dart back/forth rapidly and just end up on one when they pull the trigger.
Looking at the object ball last, allows the shooter to get immediate feedback on their chosen cueing and aiming.
Also, it develops your feel for the speed of the cue ball in getting to your next ball.
Often a players walk up to the shot/body alignment may be off a little.
Looking at the obj. ball last lets you know right away if your too much left or too much right.
When Your Down your Done. If not, get back up and readjust.
 
I had a thought while shooting last night. I have an 8.5' in my basement but often play at a friend's shop, where he has a 7' Valley with Penguin rails and I think 4 1/4 pockets, so a tough table. Now when you get shooting good, and only shoot on one size table (say the 8.5' in my case), you start realizing, "hey, this ball is 4" from the rail and 3.5' from the pocket. If I hit/rub the ball like so it goes in." No need to take an aim line or look at a pocket because I know how to move a ball 4" in a given distance. No need for visual focus because you know how to hit it. I'm lazy by nature, figuring out the most efficient way to do stuff, etc. So this laziness is easily fed and leads to not aiming. The dastardly thing is, this is a mistake, but you keep making balls, so there is no negative feedback. The lazy, no aiming rewards you, and quickly leads to a bad habit of not aiming, because you know how far to push a ball over in a given distance. You've got your HAMB certificate so why waste time with all this aiming stuff? Your mind begins to wander and you start getting worse shape. You had no baseline (where you aimed) to start your shape from, so the CB just ends up somewhere close instead of where you wanted it. These small mistakes add up, and 3 or 4 shots later, you're doing trick shots to keep your run going. Kind of like painting yourself in a corner, you're fine at the beginning, but sooner or later, you're stuck.

Another bad part about making balls while getting lazy and not aiming (or not having your intention set): When you play on a different size table, all those shots you were getting away without aiming no longer go in. You'll think your aim is off, but your aim isn't off, you've got into the habit of not aiming. It can be sorted, but you don't want to be in the middle of competition when you realize what's going on because it can be tough to overcome. So a takeaway is, always aim, even if you don't need to. The aiming should be a part of your PSR, even if you don't really have a structured PSR. It's way too easy to get lazy and it can wreck havoc on your ability on different size tables, gives sloppy leave, etc.

To add another layer to the onion, it's not just aiming, it's choosing your intention and deciding what area demands your focus, along with patterns, back up balls, 2 way shots, strategy and the myriad of things this game makes us think about. Focus on too many things and you soon feel like your brain is dripping out of your ears and you'll be praying it works. Focus on too little and you'll fall into bad habits. What a difficult simple game! :)
 
When Your Down your Done. If not, get back up and readjust.
Nearly everyone claims this, but based on my experience it's only the case on the most rudimentary shots. Unless 'done' means completed everything you need to do while standing up. My opinion isn't fact so take it for what you may think it worth.
 
Looking at the object ball last, allows the shooter to get immediate feedback on their chosen cueing and aiming.
Also, it develops your feel for the speed of the cue ball in getting to your next ball.
Often a players walk up to the shot/body alignment may be off a little.
Looking at the obj. ball last lets you know right away if your too much left or too much right.
When Your Down your Done. If not, get back up and readjust.
If you'd like a little experiment, do just what you're doing, but look at the OB first and while you get down on the shot, keep looking at the OB. Give a quick glance at the CB to set it up, then as you have been doing focus on the OB last. You still have the ability to know something is off and get up and rechalk. What I've found though is, by watching where you want to hit the OB as you get down, you end up not having to get up and rechalk nearly as much. The correct alignment just happens way more frequently if you watch the OB while getting down.

The step where you look at the CB is best kept short so as to not lose the visual focus you've been keeping on the OB.
 
I look where the CB needs to be, never at the OB, then again I use contact patch, spot on the table and not contact point.

This way my central vision is converged at a point straight in front of me where the CB needs to be.

If your central vision is converged on the OB, that point is offset to where the CB needs to be.

Put a ball on the spot then freeze a ball to it, then remove the ball on the spot. That spot represents where I have my central vision converged at. To “look” at the object means I would shift my central vision away from the spot and converging onto the OB. This shift of converge causes a angle to the CB direction of travel. Id much rather being “looking” at where the CB needs to be.

Its from riding motorcycles. There is a saying in motorcycling.......You look where you want to go......and is true.

BTW.......there is no difference in using a imaginary point on a ball and a imaginary point on the table.
 
There is a saying in motorcycling.......You look where you want to go......and is true.
Very true... and even more so when you're on a track. You to think at least 100ft ahead of where you are at all times.
 
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Nearly everyone claims this, but based on my experience it's only the case on the most rudimentary shots. Unless 'done' means completed everything you need to do while standing up. My opinion isn't fact so take it for what you may think it worth.
If your doing the same thing every time, meaning walking up to the shot and placing your bridge hand on the table and getting set.
It's your ''baseline'' for shot execution. Samo/samo/samo/samo.
If your not then you've got a problem.
I've learned thru teaching, that if your making the same error/mistake over and over again on a certain shot, that's good.
Why, because it's fixable and easy for me too find.
 
Very true... and even more so when you're on atrack. You think to think at least 100ft ahead of where you are at all times.
Traveling thru the so. on my moto, yrs ago/light rain/dark going 45mph in a 350 Ducati I came upon....4 sets of Rail Road tracks running at a 45 degree angle from left to right nearly parallel to the direction I was headed. I was ready to lay it down, but it didn't slip or catch a groove. My pulse rose Dramatically when I saw that wet/buffed/street light lit steel with spacing between, and that too was metal sheeting.
 
Exactly... ....and while attempting to break out of my mold I have discovered some realities about certain aspects of my shot process. That's what spurred this thread into being. I wanted to know if others were actually doing what I had been, and how many were attempting what I'm currently trying.

I believe holding OB focus for a prolonged period is counter intuitive for us, and we by nature 'need' to verify our 'faith' in the shot before pulling the trigger. I have no doubt that some/most will transistion their focus from CB to OB at the moment prior to 'pulling the trigger' with the shot stroke. However this is more of a "god I hope this works" transistion, rather than "I know this is good".

What switching my focus early (2-3 feathers before shooting) has done, is instilled confidence in my mechanics and ability to set up the shot. I don't need to verify my faith. That "god I hope this works" transistion of focus is being minimized. Not gone, but doubt is taking a back seat.

Most of the realisations above seem to be born from a relatively weak minded player, but it's really just an honest disclosure of what's going on.

I really don't know if I will gain any notable benefit from the experiment, but if nothing else it's been refreshing to have a slightly different point of view.
Looking ob last is overrated myth. It all depends who is playing where to watch.
 
I had a thought while shooting last night. I have an 8.5' in my basement but often play at a friend's shop, where he has a 7' Valley with Penguin rails and I think 4 1/4 pockets, so a tough table. Now when you get shooting good, and only shoot on one size table (say the 8.5' in my case), you start realizing, "hey, this ball is 4" from the rail and 3.5' from the pocket. If I hit/rub the ball like so it goes in." No need to take an aim line or look at a pocket because I know how to move a ball 4" in a given distance. No need for visual focus because you know how to hit it. I'm lazy by nature, figuring out the most efficient way to do stuff, etc. So this laziness is easily fed and leads to not aiming. The dastardly thing is, this is a mistake, but you keep making balls, so there is no negative feedback. The lazy, no aiming rewards you, and quickly leads to a bad habit of not aiming, because you know how far to push a ball over in a given distance. You've got your HAMB certificate so why waste time with all this aiming stuff? Your mind begins to wander and you start getting worse shape. You had no baseline (where you aimed) to start your shape from, so the CB just ends up somewhere close instead of where you wanted it. These small mistakes add up, and 3 or 4 shots later, you're doing trick shots to keep your run going. Kind of like painting yourself in a corner, you're fine at the beginning, but sooner or later, you're stuck.

Another bad part about making balls while getting lazy and not aiming (or not having your intention set): When you play on a different size table, all those shots you were getting away without aiming no longer go in. You'll think your aim is off, but your aim isn't off, you've got into the habit of not aiming. It can be sorted, but you don't want to be in the middle of competition when you realize what's going on because it can be tough to overcome. So a takeaway is, always aim, even if you don't need to. The aiming should be a part of your PSR, even if you don't really have a structured PSR. It's way too easy to get lazy and it can wreck havoc on your ability on different size tables, gives sloppy leave, etc.

To add another layer to the onion, it's not just aiming, it's choosing your intention and deciding what area demands your focus, along with patterns, back up balls, 2 way shots, strategy and the myriad of things this game makes us think about. Focus on too many things and you soon feel like your brain is dripping out of your ears and you'll be praying it works. Focus on too little and you'll fall into bad habits. What a difficult simple game! :)
From the perspective of (advanced beginner? Lower intermediate? I'm a 5 in APA 9-ball playing recently like a 3 . . . . . )

Semi-rhetorical questions: Why is it I can be at the table, sometimes be able to simply "see" the shot, get down on it, and make it? Yet others, I *think* I see the shot, but miss miserably. Why is it I can look at CB last or OB last, and be 100% confident I'll make the shot (and then make it), yet other times be as confident yet miss miserably? (I'm not talking about this shot or that shot; I'm talking across a session or a rack.)

Why is it that when playing the 6-ball ghost, I manage to screw up one shot damn near every single rack. Doesn't matter if it's the 1-ball (where I've placed it BIH), or the 6-ball on a nearly straight-in shot. I manage to screw up either a simple shot, or shape, or I scratch.

Just now, I walked up to the table, made the 1, 2, 3, and set up perfectly for the 4. Rattled the 4 in and out of the pocket. Then made the 5 and 6.

Then I played another rack, and before I started shooting, I *knew* I would successfully run out. And I did.

WTH? I *SO* need to remember the feeling when I know it's going to be a run out, and what I am lacking when I fail to run out.

Today I'm paying attention to simply feeling and seeing the shot, without protracted aiming. Today it's mostly working. But it doesn't usually work.

I am pretty sure it's not my stroking or alignment, because I can set up a dead-straight shot and stop the CB dead, with no spin. So it must be aiming and alignment. If only I can find out *how* to get that visualization on aiming, more consistently, I'd be a much happier banger.

Damn this game. Bless this game.
 
BTW.......there is no difference in using a imaginary point on a ball and a imaginary point on the table.

The ball has a well-defined width/diameter as I look at it. I can easily reference the width of the ball and imagine a portion of it, a slice of it, or a point anywhere along the width/diameter of it.

I can't do that with the table itself because there is nothing to use as a reference, spatially, to accurately keep the point in focus.

Like you, I look where the cb needs to go, and it's always in reference to where the ob is.
 
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