Hollow front end

spliced

spliced

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey guys,

Wondering your opinions on whether it would be possible for predator or someone else to build a shaft with the same hollowed out, foam-filled front end as a 314, but with a solid, unspliced maple shaft.

Does the pie lamination do anything to make this hollowed area stronger?

ps.
Could anyone post some pics of a broken 314 that show this area.

Thanks
 
I've made some shafts with the hole...pm me for info.
Here is a pic I have handy...it shows the hole diameter, but sorry, it only shows the hole in the ferrule. I can, if needed, take some pics of the hole in the shaft. The one on the left is a Tiger X...the 314 is on the blade.
Hope this helps.
 

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I read somewhere online that the very first Predators were one piece shafts with the hole up front. That only lasted a SHORT period, before they went to a few different pie configurations and then settling on 10 slices of pie.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I read somewhere online that the very first Predators were one piece shafts with the hole up front. That only lasted a SHORT period, before they went to a few different pie configurations and then settling on 10 slices of pie.
Click to expand...


You are correct sir.
 
I disected a first generation 314 shaft that was busted several years back. That one had a 17/64 hole that went 4.5 inches deep from the back of the ferrule, and filled with foam.

I then recreated a maple shaft with the same (or very close) specs and the result was very close to the 314's hit. Not quite the same, as the maple shaft was a bit heavier than the Predator. I think their wood is some kind of treated maple, or something, in addition to being pie pieces... but it's lighter than a regular maple shaft, whatever it is. Their ferrule has something to do with the hit as well. I was using LBM, where theirs is some kind of plastic and hits a bit softer.

I have heard (not verified) that the hole is not the same depth now, and that there is other work in the back end of the shaft now as well. I have no idea about the current construction at all, but that is what I know about the 314's as they were in about 2003.

Based on the results I got from my project, I would say that the hole in the front of the shaft is the major contributor to the non-deflection type hit.
 
PetreeCues said:
Based on the results I got from my project, I would say that the hole in the front of the shaft is the major contributor to the non-deflection type hit.
Click to expand...

The hole in the front IS the reason for the low deflection. The foam plug is only about 3/16 or so. Its there to stop glue from running into the hole. The radial laminated shaft has little to do with it. They use a little softer wood than a normal shaft so it is lighter and maybe why they decided on the laminated design. The Isoplast ferrule and now the Titan are both very light and help with the low deflection. It all about finding a balance between lightening the first 5 inches while retaining durability.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I read somewhere online that the very first Predators were one piece shafts with the hole up front. That only lasted a SHORT period, before they went to a few different pie configurations and then settling on 10 slices of pie.
Click to expand...

I know they tried a 12 piece on the earlier ones. And for some reason I was thinking a 6 but could be wrong on that.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
I know they tried a 12 piece on the earlier ones. And for some reason I was thinking a 6 but could be wrong on that.
Click to expand...

They tried 6, 8, 10, and 12.
 
ratcues said:
The hole in the front IS the reason for the low deflection. The foam plug is only about 3/16 or so. Its there to stop glue from running into the hole. The radial laminated shaft has little to do with it. They use a little softer wood than a normal shaft so it is lighter and maybe why they decided on the laminated design. The Isoplast ferrule and now the Titan are both very light and help with the low deflection. It all about finding a balance between lightening the first 5 inches while retaining durability.
Click to expand...

Iron Willie taught them that............the story I heard was they first went the opposite way and started with some type of metal rod up front.
Bad news......no control at all. When they started heading to the other end of the spectrum......word of the day is ....WHA-La!
I have also toyed with hollowing out one piece shafts and found for the extra work you loose a lot in reliability.
My beliefs are the lam shafts do add to the longevity of it.
It makes sense to me that multiple pieces are stronger and will hold up longer IF properly seamed together.
 
I have to agree with Ryan the rat here. Also, in 1997 a good player living in Columbus was given a few 314s for him and his wife, who was a woman's pro at the time, to try out. He was from Detroit and the inventor of the 314 and himself were good friends from childhood. The inventor told him that the ferrule and front of shaft contributed to the low deflection. He also said that the lamination's were a selling gimmick they had come up with to differentiate their shafts from others and that the lamination's had no effect on the cue-ball, only the sales. At around the same time, there was a fellow who came into the pool room often and was a pool nut. He went and bought a Diamond table and was one of the first, in the Columbus area, to acquire a Predator shaft. He went to where they were making them and talked to the folks there. He came back with a small jar of white powder called micro-balloons and this material is what the ferrules are formed from. It is a filler for epoxy and are small hollow balls so that when molded the material would be lighter than just the normal epoxy by itself.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Dick
 
I want to ammend my previous statement. The radial laminate makes the shaft play consistant no matter how it is rotated, unlike a black dot or red dot that needs to face up. Makes sense in theory.

Whether or not that is true...... IMO, Dick may be closer to the truth.
 
ratcues said:
I want to ammend my previous statement. The radial laminate makes the shaft play consistant no matter how it is rotated, unlike a black dot or red dot that needs to face up. Makes sense in theory.

Whether or not that is true...... IMO, Dick may be closer to the truth.
Click to expand...

Do the Predator Z shafts also have the hole in the end of the cue? Since the tip diameter is 11.75, if I remember correctly, if there is a hole in the shaft is it the same diameter as those in the 314s?
 
I'm sure the end of the Z shaft is hollow and foam-filled. Not sure of the diameter of the hole though. There may also be a difference in diameter between the Z and Z2.
 
fullsplicefiend said:
Hey guys,

Wondering your opinions on whether it would be possible for predator or someone else to build a shaft with the same hollowed out, foam-filled front end as a 314, but with a solid, unspliced maple shaft.

Does the pie lamination do anything to make this hollowed area stronger?

ps.
Could anyone post some pics of a broken 314 that show this area.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Is it possible to do it? Yes, and I did it to one of my shafts. It definitely works. Is it a lot weaker? Well, obviously, there's less wood up there, so it's a bit weaker. Has mine broken? Not yet, and I do like power shots, and I break with it too. Besides being hollowed out, the shaft was turned down and is somewhere aroung 12mm. While I don't particularly care for the hit, feels a bit hollow and so on, it definitely works, reducing cue ball squirt when shooting with english, as would be expected.

Would I recommend doing it to an existing shaft? Well, you might wish to pick up a cheap shaft to experiment upon, as I did, to find out if you like the way it plays. It all depends what you're looking to achieve.

Flex
 
The hole diameters are different between the 314 and the Z. I'd have to check for sure to know the difference. The Z is smaller for sure though. The ferrule is also not as long.
 
ratcues said:
The hole diameters are different between the 314 and the Z. I'd have to check for sure to know the difference. The Z is smaller for sure though. The ferrule is also not as long.
Click to expand...

If the hole in the Z is smaller, there must be a strength issue to contend with, and a larger hole while likely decreasing cue ball squirt even further probably would result in broken shafts, I suppose.

If you would be so kind as to check what the hole on the Z is, I'd be most appreciative.

Flex
 
Flex said:
If the hole in the Z is smaller, there must be a strength issue to contend with, and a larger hole while likely decreasing cue ball squirt even further probably would result in broken shafts, I suppose.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're right. Of course, since the Z shaft tip diameter is smaller, there's already more wood/mass missing since they took it off the outside.

Fred
 
Predator shaft construction

In the original adds Predator claimed to place a graphite rod in the front of the shaft to stiffen it up and reduce deflection. As a long time cue repairman I know some one who had the graphite insert break free and loosen up only to make a rattling sound on most shots, especially draw shots which is what loosened the insert in the first place. Next Predator claimed that a hollow front end reduces end weight and is the "way" to reduce deflection. Which is it? When a leading Billiards publication when to visit Predator they could not get Iron Willie to work. So much for proof. Every one wants a gimick, but it all boils down to something that a Sergeant in my army unit told me "Either you know pool or you don't".
 
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fullsplicefiend said:
Hey guys,

Wondering your opinions on whether it would be possible for predator or someone else to build a shaft with the same hollowed out, foam-filled front end as a 314, but with a solid, unspliced maple shaft.

Does the pie lamination do anything to make this hollowed area stronger?

ps.
Could anyone post some pics of a broken 314 that show this area.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I have done this on many occasions for customers, with no problem what so ever. However, I will say that I do not use foam as the inserted substance, and what I am using I will not divulge.

manwon
 
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