Honor.... (Warning LONG)...

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I am about to post a paper I wrote while serving in the Navy at the behest of my Command Master Chief.

This is in regards to some responses in the most recent thread about Bill Stroud and the DYD contest.

Honor, Courage, Commitment are the three tenants that the Navy holds so dear. To many of today’s world these are just words; however, if we look to our past we will see that those of yesteryear held these words in the highest esteem. From the Samurai of Feudal Japan, to the gentlemen of Europe and early America, these ideas were taken deadly serious. As members of the highest regarded war fighting power in the world, we should strive to bring the concepts behind these words back into high regard.

In Japan, from the 12th century to the nineteenth century, the Shoguns were the ruling power. Samurai were what gave them this power. Bushido, (the code of the warrior), was followed to the letter, and honor was held to be the most important thing in one’s life. This was so much the case that if that honor were infringed in any way, they would commit seppuku. Seppuku is a ritualistic suicide in which a long razor sharp knife would be thrust into the abdomen, and pulled upward across the sternum slicing through bowels and lung eventually piercing the heart. The Samurai would choose his most trusted friend or in the case of defeat in battle, often times the commander who had defeated him to stand over his head and deliver a decapitating blow from a katana (Japanese long sword). This was done to prevent him from crying out because crying out would be considered a dishonor. This means that the Samurai of feudal Japan held honor above life, and had the courage and commitment to induce this death sentence upon themselves.

In no way has honor been more countenant than in Europe in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. If a man felt he had been dishonored he would challenge the offending party to a duel. While being different than the reaction of the Japanese personage to feeling dishonored, this is still a showcase to the strength of will and dedication to beliefs that European and early American man held.

The following is an excerpt of a story regarding the Chevalier de Bayard of France who had a prisoner of war from Spain:
The Chevalier de Bayard once had a Spaniard as a prisoner of war. The Spaniard upon release told all and sundry that he had not been treated as a gentleman should be- a story that none believed as all knew that Bayard was the most courteous man alive.

Bayard grew weary of the Spaniard’s story, and sent him a cartel, offering to meet him. The Spaniard accepted, and on the appointed day the two met. The Spaniard unexpectedly called for the fight to be on foot, as Bayard had a touch of the ague and would be thought to be at a disadvantage. Bayard of course accepted quickly enough despite the concern of his seconds, as no man should cry off a duel unless sick unto death, and the list field was marked out.

Don Alonzo selected the arms and armour to be used- a close helm and gorget, with spear and dagger. The combatants knelt to pray and then Bayard laid himself flat to kiss the earth before springing up and advancing as gayly as if he was entering some palace to dance with fair ladies.

Don Alonzo was no less at ease, and went straight to Bayard saying “Sir Bayard, what would you of me?” To which Bayard answered “To defend my honour!”. They fell to, dealing fierce thrusts.

Alonzo was wounded slightly in the face, then several more blows were exchanged without result.

Bayard noticed his opponent had a trick of thrusting and then immediately parrying to deflect any return his adversary might make. The Chevalier then waited for the Spaniard to raise his arm for a thrust, then started to deliver his return…but waited a moment for the parry to pass so that the unblocked attack went home. The lance went a good four inches through the gorget into the man’s throat!

Don Alonzo feeling he was wounded unto death grapples with Bayard and they both fell to the ground. Bayard drew his dagger and held it to the Spaniard’s nostrils crying “Surrender or you are a dead man!” but too late, for Alonzo was dead already.

Alonzo’s second came forward to say “Seigneur Bayard, he is dead and you have conquered.” And no one was more distressed than the victor who said that he would have given a hundred thousand crowns to have conquered him alive.

Bayard then dragged the body from the lists, as it was his to do with as he pleased. By the laws of the duel he could have left it for the dogs, but he gave it in the keeping of Alonzo’s seconds for honorable burial, showing his honor and courtesy.

As you can see from this illustration, honor played an extremely important role in past societies. This desire to defend one’s honor taken to the extreme of risking or causing one’s own or another’s death is not solely relegated to foreign countries in times half a millennium or more in the past. Only two hundred years ago here in America a highly decorated war hero, lawyer and political aspirate challenged Alexander Hamilton to a duel. This was after a term as vice president of the United States and attempts to become president himself. While limiting himself from certain dishonorable lobbying practices his opponents had no such qualms. Alexander Hamilton spread slanderous rumors to the press and tiring of this, Aaron Burr, challenged him to a duel to defend his honor. While hoping solely for an apology from Alexander Hamilton, all of their communications escalated to the point of not being able to avoid a confrontation. The duel took place and Aaron Burr emerged the victor killing Alexander Hamilton by shooting him, the choice of weapons having been the pistol.

This having been an historical look on honor, courage and commitment in the past, how can we as modern day military men in our age of computers and fiber optic communication apply these principles to modern times? The answer to this question is simple; however, it is unfortunately not easy. If we were to poll modern Americans and even sailors, my guess would be that most would be hard pressed to even accurately define the terms Honor, Courage and Commitment. This is an unfortunate byproduct of a society that scoffs at the idea of selfless idealism. The reason I used historical data to illustrate these terms is that I wish to evoke a certain emotion when these words are read, spoken or heard. That is what they lack in today’s society. In times past, a visceral response would have been expected from anyone who dared to insult another man’s family or honor in any way.

There is a way in which we can help to restore the emotion behind these words, and attribute the meaning they had when the United States Navy first installed them as the core values. When information comes to light, we can speak up. We can take any information we have to the chain of command. We can have the courage to not be afraid of adverse action taken against us. I can guarantee that any action that is taken out on us for doing so would be minute in comparison to what our ancestors were willing to endure and what they were willing to risk and endure to maintain their honor. We can have the integrity to stand up and not accept things that are wrong and to do those things that are right and we can speak up if mistakes are made, even if they are by others that benefit us. These are the things that define the modern day Navy core values of Honor, Courage and Commitment.


There have been times in the past when I have been tempted to post this paper that I wrote on the forum, but since I didn't have a digital copy and only had the printed copy, I had restrained myself.

However, when someone tried to compare gangland slayings to the type of honor killings illustrated above, I figured it was time to go ahead and type it out in digital format and post it.

If it wasn't so long I would've have just posted it to the existing thread and not started a new one, but I believe it deserves it's own thread...
Jaden
 
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After seeing you call DD a effing do**** in the stroud thread, i really don't think you're even qualified to speak on the subject of honor.:sorry:

Practice what you preach much?:wink:
 
OF course I do.

After seeing you call DD a effing do**** in the stroud thread, i really don't think you're even qualified to speak on the subject of honor.:sorry:

Practice what you preach much?:wink:

If DD feels his honor has been infringed and wishes to duel me, all he has to do is make the challenge and I will choose the weapons and field of battle...

Jaden
 
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If DD feels his honor has been infringed and wishes to duel me, all he has to do is make the challenge and I will choose the weapons and field of battle...

Jaden

LOL, gotta love interweb warriors, eh?:rolleyes: They're so TOUGH.:rolleyes:

IDK how DD feels about it, but i'll tell ya, i feel you could use a vacation.....at least from this site:wink:
 
What do you think is the best tip to use on your cue? Also do you like Kamui chalk?
 
I for one enjoyed the read. Thanks Jaden.

I don't post in the back and forth bullshit threads. I do believe that indeed we have a society of entitlement, little honor, and certainly few people with my understanding or caring of two words - personal responsibility. It's a damn shame.

Ultimately, parents need to realize there are consequences to their actions - that is the INACTION of teaching this to their children. Damn shame.
 
I'm sorry to say, there's very little honor or integrity in Pool in general imho. Nothing like golf for example, which I don't play BTW. It's always been like that. Of course there are many exceptions. Read "Hustlers, Beats, and Others" by Ned Polsky.
 
Thank you Jaden.

There is a great lack of truthful, honorable men and women in our "anything goes" society today.
 
Thank you for your post, but even more, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY.:thumbup:
 
Well....

What do you think is the best tip to use on your cue? Also do you like Kamui chalk?

Kamui black soft is my preferred but for the money I like the tiger emerald green tip, plays pretty much just like the kamui at a fraction of the cost.

I liked the Kamui chalk for the first two weeks I played with it, but it seems to dry out or something, I kept it in the foil pack whenever I wasn't using it too.

I like the predator chalk. I don't know if it's commercially available yet, but when it is, it will be all I use...

Again, for the price, I think it's the best out there (if it's out there yet).

The octagonal shape may just be a gimmick, but I think it helps to avoid crumbling edges too.

Jaden
 
Fyi....

LOL, gotta love interweb warriors, eh?:rolleyes: They're so TOUGH.:rolleyes:

IDK how DD feels about it, but i'll tell ya, i feel you could use a vacation.....at least from this site:wink:

The weapons and field of battle I would have chosen would be pool cues and a nine foot felt...

Jaden

BTW.... I am FAR from just an INTERNET warrior...
 
Jaden, I have always enjoyed reading your posts as well as DLDs.

Both of your posts and opinions are always well thought and articulate.

I have never once read DLD calling anyone names. He just comes back with a stronger rebuttal.

Calling him a douche is a tad below your usual style, I believe Buddy.

Not trying to be the forum police here either as if that were the case, I would have had to ban myself numerous times.
 
Yeah you're right...

Jaden, I have always enjoyed reading your posts as well as DLDs.

Both of your posts and opinions are always well thought and articulate.

I have never once read DLD calling anyone names. He just comes back with a stronger rebuttal.

Calling him a douche is a tad below your usual style, I believe Buddy.

Not trying to be the forum police here either as if that were the case, I would have had to ban myself numerous times.

I apologize Double D for calling you a douche... although I can't read your name with picturing Sam Elliott from "Road House" saying "The Double Douche" while reading the sign for the Double Deuce.

I have been extra stressed out lately and I let it get the better of me; however, I have always had hatred for pussy ass gangs and a great respect for past honorable warriors like Samurai and that likening had gotten on my nerves and brought everything I am pissed off about to a head.

So, again, I apologize for calling you a douche...

Jaden
 
I too believe there is a huge difference between the honor that the Samurai
felt and the perceived little slights that a gang member feels by maybe having someone from another gang walk on their turf without giving proper recognition thereby dissing the other gang.

The way of the Samurai, Bushido I believe was a way of life and I also guess that the way a modern day gang member in intent is the same as far as they see it but it is in the grand scheme of things, apples and oranges.

A Samurai would welcome death with his head held high. There was part of a poem that I remember. A coward dies a thousand times but a Valiant dies but once. Something like that. I think that if you were to stick a gun in most Gang Bangers mouths, their pants would get wet along with all the begging for you to not pull the trigger.

We all get stressed Jaden, its hard not to on a weekly basis considering how the world is these days.
 
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Kamui black soft is my preferred but for the money I like the tiger emerald green tip, plays pretty much just like the kamui at a fraction of the cost.

I liked the Kamui chalk for the first two weeks I played with it, but it seems to dry out or something, I kept it in the foil pack whenever I wasn't using it too.

I like the predator chalk. I don't know if it's commercially available yet, but when it is, it will be all I use...

Again, for the price, I think it's the best out there (if it's out there yet).

The octagonal shape may just be a gimmick, but I think it helps to avoid crumbling edges too.

Jaden

Magic and BD chalk are both much better than the Pred chalk..........
 
I know Jaden, i'm proud to call him a friend. His service to our country was some very big stuff. not to knock anyone in any of the armed forces or other civil servants. In the highest confidence Jaden touched on some of his duties and it's what I'd consider classified. He is a man of honor.

I dont know anything about he Bill Stroud thing, not my biz, i got my own problems to sweat.


Sometimes the keyboard is difficult to comunicate with, I didnt read Jadens long post, I will later. My point is in person Jaden is a very good person.

my very best
eric:)
 
Magic and BD chalk are both much better than the Pred chalk..........


This Russ guy, well......He is good too, another great friend,

Pool is funny, for me the people i have met in pool are either real good, or real bad. The good news is 80% of the time they are great people 19% are ok and 1% are just bad. I do my best to see the good in everyone, so thats my numbers.
 
That was a very worthwhile read. I liked the historical references as examples of honor and applaud your service in the Navy.

And like the, other poster said, although I do find most billiards players to be likeable, we are all still people so we obviously all cannot be best friends about everything.

And about Kamui chalk... expensive chalk. I used to think chalks that were over $5 were expensive. But if the quality is good and it lasts long, it is probably worth it... Unless you are good at losing things.
 
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