Honor
- Thread starter DynoDan
- Start date
I believe Joe Rogan said that .
Honor in the past ?
I don't remember the players in the 60's and 70's being honorable at all. Other
than a few that I was friends and partners with. Most of the players were full
time pool scuffs and most would do what ever it took to get the money. The
Cotton Bowling Palace in Dallas where there was 24 hr action was full of every
kind of player, dump artist, thieve and out right killers. The only time you called
a foul on yourself was when you had a sucker trapped and you wanted him to
think you were a nice honest guy. One of the first times I was in there I was only
about 16 ,Vernon LItton the house tush gets me down playing this guy and everyone
in the place is betting on the game. I'm giving him the seven, and say to Vernon,
who is also staking me, man this is a really tough game. Vernon says no it 's
not, and just stares at me. Well I snapped, the guy was dumping his stakehorse
who was also taking all the rail action. I was just a kid and thought oh S---, all
these crazy ass characters betting on the game and half of them with guns in
their pockets. So I tell Vernon I don't want to be a part of any of that and wasn't
going to play. Well I guess Vernon was being a father figure, he put his arm on
my shoulder' (actually around my neck) and gently said " oh yes you are".
As my eyes started to bulge out I begin to come around to his way of thinking.
I took it off and Vernon was generous enough to give me some of my end.
I guess I could have refused, which wouldn't have bothered Vernon at all, but
I needed another pair of alligator shoes. Honor at the CPB was seen as a weakness.
Not saying it was right just the way it was.
jack
I don't remember the players in the 60's and 70's being honorable at all. Other
than a few that I was friends and partners with. Most of the players were full
time pool scuffs and most would do what ever it took to get the money. The
Cotton Bowling Palace in Dallas where there was 24 hr action was full of every
kind of player, dump artist, thieve and out right killers. The only time you called
a foul on yourself was when you had a sucker trapped and you wanted him to
think you were a nice honest guy. One of the first times I was in there I was only
about 16 ,Vernon LItton the house tush gets me down playing this guy and everyone
in the place is betting on the game. I'm giving him the seven, and say to Vernon,
who is also staking me, man this is a really tough game. Vernon says no it 's
not, and just stares at me. Well I snapped, the guy was dumping his stakehorse
who was also taking all the rail action. I was just a kid and thought oh S---, all
these crazy ass characters betting on the game and half of them with guns in
their pockets. So I tell Vernon I don't want to be a part of any of that and wasn't
going to play. Well I guess Vernon was being a father figure, he put his arm on
my shoulder' (actually around my neck) and gently said " oh yes you are".
As my eyes started to bulge out I begin to come around to his way of thinking.
I took it off and Vernon was generous enough to give me some of my end.
I guess I could have refused, which wouldn't have bothered Vernon at all, but
I needed another pair of alligator shoes. Honor at the CPB was seen as a weakness.
Not saying it was right just the way it was.
jack
You forgot ill-educated and under or wrongly informed.
Here we go! Get the popcorn!!
Your post talks about
- winning in a dishonorable way
- compromising one's dignity
- breaking/compromising the rules
- doing anything to win
While the pool world has many instances of such behavior, the example you gave -- playing an intentional foul -- is normally NOT one of those.
Trent, I really wish you would change your mind about that. The notion that it is outside the rules and unsportsmanlike conduct to take a normal, common intentional foul is, frankly, ridiculous (and not simply a matter of differences of opinion).
The rules explicitly list the things that are fouls and the penalties for those fouls. So fouls and their penalties are within (i.e., part of) the rules.
It would be absurd to try to discern (who can read minds?) intentionals from unintentionals and to treat them differently (miscues excepted).
In 14.1, taking a 1-point penalty for an intentional foul (sometimes with an additional 15-point penalty for 3 of them in a row) is sometimes a sound, allowable tactic.
In rotation games and 8-Ball, giving up ball in hand for an intentional foul while trying to tie-up balls to prevent your opponent from running out is sometimes a sound, allowable tactic.
In 1-Pocket, taking a 1-ball penalty for an intentional foul is sometimes a sound, allowable tactic.
All of these games would be diminished, not made more honorable, by trying to identify and more severely punish (such as by deeming them to be unsportsmanlike conduct) intentional fouls.
[Some people even seem to think that playing a safety is cheating and should be disallowed. I doubt you are in that camp.]
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You can rationalize it how ever you want, but, I think it is tasteless an cheap. I don't like it and don't want to play pool with people who use rule breaking as a strategy.
I dont play 14.1.
I love the 3 foul rule in 9 ball
To each his/ her own. I do appreciate your well written and clear perspective on the issues, but, we will have to agree to disagree like grown ups. Your opinion is yours and you are entitled to it! Thanks for being civil ! :thumbup:
Trent from Toledo
Hey there Trent! I wrote about how my brother would cheat to win at games when we were kids on that other thread. He always cheated at everything. At some point it stopped working. I got better, and he started losing. Cheaters don't want to lose. They will do anything not to lose. All you can do is get better/play smarter. I'm not saying lower yourself to their standard, I'm saying rise above it. My guess is the person or persons you are playing know how this affects you and it helps them to win if you are upset. Next time your out here we need to play again. I'm an honorable person.
You know I will be over to shoot some pool when I am out that way bro!!!
Keep shooting!
Trent from Toledo
Keep shooting!
Trent from Toledo
You can rationalize it how ever you want, but, I think it is tasteless an cheap. I don't like it and don't want to play pool with people who use rule breaking as a strategy.
I dont play 14.1.
I love the 3 foul rule in 9 ball
To each his/ her own. I do appreciate your well written and clear perspective on the issues, but, we will have to agree to disagree like grown ups. Your opinion is yours and you are entitled to it! Thanks for being civil ! :thumbup:
Trent from Toledo
Could you give an example? Here's what you typically see: You've been put into a good safety, and it's very difficult to get a hit, so you take the foul and try to tie up some balls to make it difficult for your opponent to run out. You think that's poor sportsmanship?
There are plenty of situations where its bad and some not so bad, but, it does not really matter. We don't have to agree. You play pool how you want to and I will play how I want :thumbup:
Trent from Toledo