How beneficial is an aiming system?

TheThaiger said:
Good grief. So, you just jump over the bar and it doesn't matter how - the champion is a champion is a champion. Mr Fosbury would beg to differ, as technique is all. Steve Davis revolutionised snooker and would, no doubt, be bemused by your interpretation of his words, as his methods now are as ubiquitous as Fosbury's. Whether you like it or not, pool in America needs the great leap forward, and the faster the better. The more you entrench, the further adrift you'll be cast. You can ra-ra-ra it from the rooftops all you like but it'll do you no good.

And you realise Ronnie is a snooker player, right? 200-300 American pool players in the UK produces the same number of genuinely world class players as 20-30 MILLION US American pool players, and you say there's no problem? :eek:

Good and, indeed, grief. You yourself are symptonatic of all that is wrong with pool in the US. You have TERRIBLE cueing and you CONTINUE to go on about aiming. That is a bridge that cannot be crossed, you're a hopeless case, but there are those of us that will fight the good fight over the next generation, those that are able to be saved.
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Huh? 200-300 players vs. 30 million????

Now I see where the problem is. You're another one of those foolish people who takes the SGMA number of 30 million as credible yardstick. Let me educate you. That number is extrapolated from a small sample of people asked ONE question which was did you play pool at least once in the past year?

Pool as a game is present in just about every bar in the USA, it's present in many homes, it's present in many senior citizen's homes, it's present in many community centers and churches. But just because there is a pool table does not mean that the pool played is in any way connected to the competitive level that we discuss on this forum.

Got it?
 
JB Cases said:
Seriously? You are going to use the Fosbury flop as your example? Funny that that is the exact example of WHY people should be willing to try CTE.

Again gotta love YouTube, here is the Steve Davis interview so anyone can listen to exactly what he said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dWeaeXfwcY

Among them, "I am not sure there is a right or wrong way to play within certain parameters."

Guess you know more than Steve Davis.
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Why do you think he said "within certain parameters?", and what do you think those parameters are? And the bar has been risen by CTE, then? In what way? I must have missed CTE generating a new level of play. Please elaborate on who has achieved what with CTE - and I'm not talking about shortstops or someone boring an aging champion to tears.

Cast iron, solid proof, please.
 
JB Cases said:
Huh? 200-300 players vs. 30 million????

Now I see where the problem is. You're another one of those foolish people who takes the SGMA number of 30 million as credible yardstick. Let me educate you. That number is extrapolated from a small sample of people asked ONE question which was did you play pool at least once in the past year?

Pool as a game is present in just about every bar in the USA, it's present in many homes, it's present in many senior citizen's homes, it's present in many community centers and churches. But just because there is a pool table does not mean that the pool played is in any way connected to the competitive level that we discuss on this forum.

Got it?
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But you have many, many times more players of American pool than we do, correct? And you have many, many times more American pool tables than we do, correct?

I'm struggling to see why you cannot see the problem here. :confused:

Mass makes class. You're fond of it.
 
TheThaiger said:
GB9 is largely comprised of amateurs, and anyone can enter. There are probably about 10 pro class players (depending on how you define pro) and a sliding scale from there to the 80th and lowest ranked.

But, like I say, there are very few American pool players in the UK, so it is meaningless to draw any conclusions from it per se - but I'd still say our top 20 are a match for your top 20, which is ridiculous given the numbers involved and the absence of tables to play on. I'd say it's not too much of a reach to say it's the equivalent of the US mustering enough decent snooker players to match our own.

Mass makes class, yeah? :rolleyes:
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If snooker was a popular sport in the USA as it is/was in the UK with similar support from the networks that Snooker enjoys from the BBC and SkySports then we would have plenty of top level snooker players.

AND

The styles that those players would use would likely mirror what is currently in use by most snooker players BECAUSE like water finding it's level styles of play and techniques generally tend to evolve into what it most effective. Which is to say that what is most effective FOR SNOOKER is not necessarily what is most effective for pool.

Yes mass makes class. The more people who are doing something seriously and competitively the more people who will excel at it. But also proximity in competitors drives class. So with all of your best players concentrated in a small space they are likely to push each other.

As John Schmidt said, take all the best players in the USA and put them together and make them compete and they will become stronger. That's pretty much a given.

One thing you fail to understand and one thing Steve Davis said is that it doesn't matter whether it's snooker or pool you still have to hit the ball straight. So if you set up a task, run this rack, then it doesn't matter HOW it's run as long as it's run, consistently over and over and over. The table doesn't lie to you, either the balls disappear or they don't.

And we have plenty of players who are GREAT at making the balls disappear. Rack after rack after rack. You just don't know them because they aren't all bunched up in one small space.

If you had more players of Gerry's ability, and Gerry is a working guy, then it would show up in the 203 videos I posted a link to. But you don't.

You can't simply accept Gerry's testimonial at face value that Center to Edge Aiming has helped him to become a better player and is part of why he is at the skill level he is at. That's what all this boils down to.

You don't know that CTE/ProOne couldn't raise the average skill level of all players. You can't know that because you don't have the slightest clue what it's really about or how it works. Your claims of superiority are busted based on the evidence provided and your backtracking statements are only further proof.
 
TheThaiger said:
Why do you think he said "within certain parameters?", and what do you think those parameters are? And the bar has been risen by CTE, then? In what way? I must have missed CTE generating a new level of play. Please elaborate on who has achieved what with CTE - and I'm not talking about shortstops or someone boring an aging champion to tears.

Cast iron, solid proof, please.
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Because those parameters are obviously methods that don't hinder effectively playing the game. Which is easily shown by results. If you have a potting test and you can pass it then whatever methods you are using are within the parameters.

I didn't say the bar has been risen because of CTE, it's too early in the adoption of it to tell. I said I am convinced that it's a beneficial method and that I think IF it were adopted by more players then the average skill level would go up.

That includes players in Britain.

No need to provide you with any accomplishments because you don't count them anyway. Whatever I would say you will find a way to discount it.

You act as though you are the saviour of pool by espousing that players only adopt snooker methods and don't consider any other methods. Yet when players report success and are shown to be BETTER than your average players in Britain they are not credited for it.

Fact is you know nothing, not even what the skill level is of the players around you. The very fact that you used the 30 million number shows just how out of touch you are.
 
CTE has helped me improve my ball pocketing skills. If I didn't believe that CTE helped me improve I would never say so and that is a fact. I have no stake in promoting CTE other than the fact that I have connected with it and believe that it is a great tool.

As far as CTE is concerned it has been proven to work time and time again through countless video testimonials.

People can aim whatever way they choose - it is a personal choice. However, Thaiger talking about UK players being superior cueists is nonsense. Fact is Snooker is dead in NA so lets stop making that comparison as it doesn't make sense. We may as well be comparing the British hockey team to Team Canada :)

Thaiger - your own words stated that you only feel people that can play should be given any airtime on here - why not show us how you hit em? I have no idea how you play but I am sure a number of people would like to find out. Same with Duckie - and I don't mean his 15 second clips of ducks (maybe that is where his screen name came from ;))
 
JB Cases said:
Looks like average players to me, nothing special, about what you see in any regional and local event here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJfcS11u19Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXwB5GUY8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTUesqmHGxw&list=UUFqVEw4Lv2BVNP-5R-NGhow

Here is the finals of one event TB9 series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuBif0zlYU&list=UUFqVEw4Lv2BVNP-5R-NGhow

Fact is Thaiger, you're full of shit. The pool players in England are like the pool players here. MOSTLY bangers who enjoy the game. They aren't all Gerry's level or better. They are more like my level, enthusiasts who don't put a lot of effort into the game.

They don't all use the snooker method of playing, they don't all set up on the ball the same way, they don't all stroke the ball the same way. Skill levels are average with them mostly making amateur mistakes and showing amateur form.

I could go on but all the proof I need is right here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/wwwPro9CoUk/videos

Gotta love youtube.

I could send Gerry over and within the year he would be a top ten player on the GB9 tour right up there with the names we all know.
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Then do it. It would be great advertising for you. You tend to be fond of that, it'll cost you less than $10k, and it'll open up new markets to boot. Fact is, GW will never break top 10 on GB9, at least not until he tightens those pockets on his practice table. Only then will we see his true speed anyway.

And you do realise the majority of our top cueists play E8B & snooker, don't ya?

What does linking selective footage of amateur and rookie events prove anyway? :confused: If I could be bothered to I'd link that footage of SVB dogging easy ball after easy ball, and losing to an old man in the Philippines. Proves nothing either way.

PS even though GB9 is open to all, there's not one that plays anywhere near as bad as you, women and kids included. For some bizarre reason you've managed to delude yourself into thinking you can actually play. You can't.
 
Gerry Williams said:
CTE has helped me improve my ball pocketing skills. If I didn't believe that CTE helped me improve I would never say so and that is a fact. I have no stake in promoting CTE other than the fact that I have connected with it and believe that it is a great tool.

As far as CTE is concerned it has been proven to work time and time again through countless video testimonials.

People can aim whatever way they choose - it is a personal choice.

Thaiger - your own words stated that you only feel people that can play should be given any airtime on here - why not show us how you hit em? I have no idea how you play but I am sure a number of people would like to find out. Same with Duckie - and I don't mean his 15 second clips of ducks (maybe that is where his screen name came from ;))
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I don't shill a system - I merely seek to protect the misguided, the naive or the gullible. How I play is irrelevant. I cue like every other British person, and I believe this to be the most perfect form of cueing for all, irrespective of which game you play. Good cueing is the foundation upon which all else is built. Get that right as you start out and you needn't worry about anything else. If CTE helps advanced players get a little better, then great, but players as poor as Barton should not be allowed to push it as THE most important factor, because that is misleading people who lack the experience to know better. If he gets a stroke THEN sings its praises, then fair enough.

However, Thaiger talking about UK players being superior cueists is nonsense. Fact is Snooker is dead in NA so lets stop making that comparison as it doesn't make sense. We may as well be comparing the British hockey team to Team Canada :)
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What if the British hockey team beat Team Canada? What then? What is they did it consistently, year in year out? What then? What if everyone else in the world beat Team Canada? What then?
 
JB Cases said:
Because those parameters are obviously methods that don't hinder effectively playing the game. Which is easily shown by results. If you have a potting test and you can pass it then whatever methods you are using are within the parameters.

I didn't say the bar has been risen because of CTE, it's too early in the adoption of it to tell. I said I am convinced that it's a beneficial method and that I think IF it were adopted by more players then the average skill level would go up.

That includes players in Britain.

No need to provide you with any accomplishments because you don't count them anyway. Whatever I would say you will find a way to discount it.

You act as though you are the saviour of pool by espousing that players only adopt snooker methods and don't consider any other methods. Yet when players report success and are shown to be BETTER than your average players in Britain they are not credited for it.

Fact is you know nothing, not even what the skill level is of the players around you. The very fact that you used the 30 million number shows just how out of touch you are.
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Then correct me. What is the correct number of Americans who have played pool in the last year? And out of the 50,000 that have registered on this site, what proportion are American in relation to those that are British, European or Asian?

The facts are simple and easily quantifiable: more people play American pool in America than any other country by a quite considerable margin, yet you've only got ONE world class player, and even he hasn't won a world title yet. I don't believe America has produced a world champion since 2002 or 2003. The MC has become a national embarrassment.

As ever, you are free to correct me on any of this. If I am right, don't you think something needs to be done about it? It sounds to me like you're pinning all your hopes onto CTE, which is as desperate as it is foolish.

The solutions to your problems are very obvious: you need to improve your cuing. You have remained in your stagnant swamp for too long, and have evolved a method playing that has been out-gunned by the rest of the world. Good luck to you if you think the solution is simply to recalibrate your sights, for you'll need it in spades.
 
Americans own more world and major titles than any other nation.

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TheThaiger said:
I don't shill a system - I merely seek to protect the misguided, the naive or the gullible. How I play is irrelevant. I cue like every other British person, and I believe this to be the most perfect form of cueing for all, irrespective of which game you play. Good cueing is the foundation upon which all else is built. Get that right as you start out and you needn't worry about anything else. If CTE helps advanced players get a little better, then great, but players as poor as Barton should not be allowed to push it as THE most important factor, because that is misleading people who lack the experience to know better. If he gets a stroke THEN sings its praises, then fair enough.



What if the British hockey team beat Team Canada? What then? What is they did it consistently, year in year out? What then? What if everyone else in the world beat Team Canada? What then?
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How you play is irrelevant yet how I play is?

Yeah that makes sense.

As I said you cherry pick what you accept as evidence and credibility thus you have neither.



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TheThaiger said:
Then do it. It would be great advertising for you. You tend to be fond of that, it'll cost you less than $10k, and it'll open up new markets to boot. Fact is, GW will never break top 10 on GB9, at least not until he tightens those pockets on his practice table. Only then will we see his true speed anyway.

And you do realise the majority of our top cueists play E8B & snooker, don't ya?

What does linking selective footage of amateur and rookie events prove anyway? :confused: If I could be bothered to I'd link that footage of SVB dogging easy ball after easy ball, and losing to an old man in the Philippines. Proves nothing either way.

PS even though GB9 is open to all, there's not one that plays anywhere near as bad as you, women and kids included. For some bizarre reason you've managed to delude yourself into thinking you can actually play. You can't.
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If your top cueists don't play pool they are not relevant to the discussion.

What is relevant is that in the land of snooker and english 8 ball the pool players should be better through exposure according to you and yet they are not.



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Can you be any more melodramatic? No one is pinning the hopes for American pool on CTE or any other method.

This is ONLY a method of aiming. You are making it out to be something it's not.

You asked how many people we have playing pool?

Hundreds of thousands of people who ENJOY the game each week at different competitive levels. None of which matter in the least to the larger world or to the economy at large. It's merely working people who enjoy playing pool as a hobby. None of them have lives that would be affected at all by an American victory at the Mosconi Cup or if an American won a world championship.

Some of them like to put in as much time as they can improving their game to include all aspects of the game. Aiming, stroking, speed control etc...

You don't know anything about pool in America. You don't know anything about our leagues, about our tournaments, our gambling culture or even how we feel about pool.

So stop with this nonsense equivocation. We are talking about a method of aiming not the end of the world nor the savior of the world.
 
JB Cases said:
Fact is Thaiger, you're full of shit. The pool players in England are like the pool players here. MOSTLY bangers who enjoy the game. They aren't all Gerry's level or better. They are more like my level, enthusiasts who don't put a lot of effort into the game.
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Wishful thinking. If someone lives in the UK and classes American pool as a hobby, it's highly likely they play significantly better than you do.

We have our share of people who can't cue to save their life, but they're generally people out drinking who have never owned a cue, play less than once a year and have no real interest in the game. They aren't lifelong pool players who work in the industry and (foolishly) get themselves involved in $10k challenge matches.
 
JB Cases said:
If snooker was a popular sport in the USA as it is/was in the UK with similar support from the networks that Snooker enjoys from the BBC and SkySports then we would have plenty of top level snooker player
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Madness. You don't have plenty of top level pool players.
 
SakuJack said:
Wishful thinking. If someone lives in the UK and classes American pool as a hobby, it's highly likely they play significantly better than you do.

We have our share of people who can't cue to save their life, but they're generally people out drinking who have never owned a cue, play less than once a year and have no real interest in the game. They aren't lifelong pool players who work in the industry and (foolishly) get themselves involved in $10k challenge matches.
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Haha, you two are hilarious.

#1 the video evidence proves you wrong.

#2. I have been to London twice. You don't have an abundance of better players.

#3. You have average players who play money matches for more than I did. The video evidence shows this clearly. I promise you there are dozens of players in the USA who would LOVE to play those players

Are you a little jealous that I had the balls to get in the box and play?
 
JB Cases said:
Because of the readers. I don't write for the trolls. I write for the readers so that they understand the pure nonsense that these guys are spewing.
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Any knowledgeable reader can see his posts are nonsense. Trolls are only validated when people respond to their troll posts. Based upon his posts, I seriously doubt that he can run 3 balls.
 
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