How Can It Be?

[Black-Balled]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf02xhYwMWk

How is it that the CB can go both backwards and forwards? Can anybody replicate the shot/ find other examples of it?

 

[Neil]

Don't know if it's the case here, but if the cb is quite a bit lighter than the ob, and you hit it hard, which he did, the cb can actually bounce backwards before it goes forward from the topspin on it.

 

[CoachDitka2001]

Don't know if it's the case here, but if the cb is quite a bit lighter than the ob, and you hit it hard, which he did, the cb can actually bounce backwards before it goes forward from the topspin on it.

Correct, if the cue ball weighs less than the object ball, it can rebound a bit as in this shot. This would not happen if they weighed the exact same, or the cue ball was slightly heavier.

Maybe I need to carry around a scale to weigh the balls before a match to know what kind of shots I can pull off...

 

[ac11]

I could be very wrong here but I think whoever is shooting this is drawing the cue ball back but putting more right hand spin vs back spin (does that make any sense???) So when the cue ball hits the cushion the right hand English pushes it forward.

I've been practicing similar shots and I seem to have best results with stroking the cue ball normally but with a little bit of wrist flick towards the end of the stroke....

I know I explained that horribly but hopefully it helps.

 

[Fatboy]

what i said in carom forum:

if he hit the CB a little below center how then does it take off forwards, you cant have it both ways, its either a hi ball(follow) center(might stun) below (draw), its one of he 3 its not possible to have 2 of the 3 which is what your saying .

i'm a horrible 3C player, I can run a 4 now and then, thats it. but i played pool for about 30 years and the principals of physics are the same. So I do have a understanding of that. Even if the CB was juiced to high heaven you still cant bounce back and go forwards WHEN the balls have the same mass.


there might be one exception if the elasticity of the CB was different than the OB then it might be possible. on the extreme think of a rubber ball, if you hit that with a high ball it would bounce back and then the english would grab. So if the CB is more elastic than the OB and both weigh the same then it could happen. In Pool the red circle CB weighs the same as a blue circle CB-take them outside stand over a piece of plate steel and drop them at the same time from the same height the red circle will always bounce higher. Its also easier to draw than the blue. however I have never seen it bounce back from a OB and then run forwards either.

so the balls have to be gaffed.

 

[bdorman]

It looks like the heavy amount of sidespin caused the CB to rotate after striking the OB, in a way that the rotation was now forward rather than sideways.

 

[Black-Balled]

I could be very wrong here but I think whoever is shooting this is drawing the cue ball back but putting more right hand spin vs back spin (does that make any sense???) So when the cue ball hits the cushion the right hand English pushes it forward.

I've been practicing similar shots and I seem to have best results with stroking the cue ball normally but with a little bit of wrist flick towards the end of the stroke....

I know I explained that horribly but hopefully it helps.

I know I didn't expressley say it, but the part that seems to defy logic is the part before the rail is contacted.

You are completely correct that the sidespin makes the ball roll from the side rail (running english?).

 

[Fatboy]

It looks like the heavy amount of sidespin caused the CB to rotate after striking the OB, in a way that the rotation was now forward rather than sideways.

you cant have both, it dont go one way then another, if would come off at a angle

 

[Fatboy]

the CB is lighter than the OB and juiced as well so its super slippery , cool shot for sure.

 

[Vyc]

Partial jump shot?

The bridge hand can't be fully seen...but I suspect this is a partial jump shot.

I think the shooter is jacked up, the cue hits the object ball a little high, bounces back and the follow thru stroke takes off around the 2nd object ball.

 

[Quatsch83]

I agree with those who said it is a lighter cue ball.

And it must be left english, not running english based on the way it comes off the short rail.

 

[Black-Balled]

The bridge hand can't be fully seen...but I suspect this is a partial jump shot.

I think the shooter is jacked up, the cue hits the object ball a little high, bounces back and the follow thru stroke takes off around the 2nd object ball.

Interesting theory. I see why they elected you King of your house.

Kind of like a 9b break shot, eh? But I styill don't follow, the break shot has 9x of mass on one side of equation...

And there does not appear to be and bouncing, tho the cueing action is certainly not visible...hmmmmm

Yes, I know expressly is spelled wrong.

 

[Fatboy]

Interesting theory. I see why they elected you King of your house.

Kind of like a 9b break shot, eh? But I styill don't follow, the break shot has 9x of mass on one side of equation...

And there does not appear to be and bouncing, tho the cueing action is certainly not visible...hmmmmm

Yes, I know expressly is spelled wrong.

thats right 9X the weight, the CB HAS to be lighter, its a very cool gaffed shot. Nothing wrong with that. Its not some undiscovered rare physical phenonomen in pool.

 

[Dustin_J]

That's cool; I think it's most likely a light cueball as others have stated.

I remember reading something (maybe in the 8-ball Bible) about the old valley coin-op cueballs that were slightly heavier than the object balls. They'd allow for the "opposite" of what you see here, where you could actually hit hard shot with a lot of draw and the cueball would follow the object ball an inch or two before coming back. The book said a lot of best bar table players had the shot down to where they could draw "under and around" trouble balls that were on the tangent line of the particular shot. Pretty neat stuff.

 

[pt109]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf02xhYwMWk

How is it that the CB can go both backwards and forwards? Can anybody replicate the shot/ find other examples of it?

English billiard players have been using this effect for a hundred years.
...just not to this extreme....3-cushion conditions allow this, it's fast cloth
and heated slate....sometimes silicon is involved also.

It's how you make an in-off that looks like it doesn't go at english billiards.

There are also banks where you can't avoid the double-kiss with draw...
..hit it high with speed, the cue-ball backs off long enough for the object-ball
to clear....feel free to speak up, John Brumback.

 

[Black-Balled]

I agree with those who said it is a lighter cue ball.

And it must be left english, not running english based on the way it comes off the short rail.

ahh, yes. L) spinglish. I was visualizing it going back up the table...

 

[Black-Balled]

English billiard players have been using this effect for a hundred years.
...just not to this extreme....3-cushion conditions allow this, it's fast cloth
and heated slate....sometimes silicon is involved also.

It's how you make an in-off that looks like it doesn't go at english billiards.

There are also banks where you can't avoid the double-kiss with draw...
..hit it high with speed, the cue-ball backs off long enough for the object-ball
to clear....feel free to speak up, John Brumback.

what the...? I only see vids of a short jenny. And I am confused.

 

[elvicash]

I watched the video. I do not understand how it works, ball one is a half a ball past the second object ball. The cue ball sees to be hooking back (draw) and then forward to the left around ball two. The juice (left spin) takes it forward off the rail. Cannot see if the player is jacked up or shooting close to level. Is it possible to play Youtube frame by frame. If so you might be able to see if it is faked. I do not think the resolution would let you tell much about the what is on the cue ball but it would be worth a look.

Probably real in my opinion but I do not understand it, I think the shooter must be using some sort of quasi masse stroke where the CB is loaded up. Get Venom to look it over if it is real he could replicate it.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I have made such shots before. They are not hard. You have to know what you are doing. If you concentrate enough on the first object ball, it effectively becomes heavier. If the force is with you, the ball can become almost infinitely heavy and will disturb the local space-time continuum, so don't go that far. Go for just a couple of ounces.

The cue ball is light. A lot light. Do a single-frame advance in YouTube with the j-k-l keys. As the cue ball passes the yellow ball, it sure looks to me like the white is smaller.

However, if anyone would like to bet on the shot -- the cue ball has to back up a whole ball with follow -- they can win my money. The cue ball has to be as heavy as the object ball.

The shots like the one shown that I've made before have been with a snooker cue ball (51mm diameter) and a carom object ball (61mm diameter). It's fun to try to follow with the snooker cue ball and really fun to draw it. Then reverse the balls and try again.

 

[RunoutJJ]

Paging Dr. Dave... Dr. Dave please......