How can we as players really tell if an Aiming System is a Gimmick or not!!!!!

[Tramp Steamer]

It's objective as well. We have various ways to rate players that are more or less in line around the country.

Is a shortstop "good" - how about an APA 9? A BCA master player?

A 12 in Tulsa?

I think we are bantering semantics here, JB.
Where I come from a 10 speed is a top player. Most 10 speeds are good. Some 10 speeds are great. A lot of shortstops are good. Many are really good, A few are damned good. A few, I suppose, are not so good.
Do you see where I'm going with this? It isn't long before the word 'good' has any real meaning at all.

 

[JB Cases]

I think we are bantering semantics here, JB.
Where I come from a 10 speed is a top player. Most 10 speeds are good. Some 10 speeds are great. A lot of shortstops are good. Many are really good, A few are damned good. A few, I suppose, are not so good.
Do you see where I'm going with this? It isn't long before the word 'good' has any real meaning at all.

I don't think we are. Ok so let's use your ratings in your area.

A 10 is "good".

So if you and I took a current six and you allowed him to practice 8 hours a day with no instruction and I took a six and paired them up with a top pro for fours a day which one would get to a ten speed faster in your opinion?

 

[pooltchr]

It's objective as well. We have various ways to rate players that are more or less in line around the country.

Is a shortstop "good" - how about an APA 9? A BCA master player?

A 12 in Tulsa?

"Good" in pool is not black and white. It's shades of gray. I'm good. You're good, but probably not as good as we would like to be. Archer is good. Do you think if he had the chance, he would want to get better?

Good is just reletive. Many people think I'm good, because I might play better than they do. Many more people would not consider me good, because they play better than I. So are we good? I guess it depends on who is asking.

I don't know who is good, but I have yet to meet a poolplayer who thought they were "good enough".

Steve

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I don't think we are. Ok so let's use your ratings in your area.

A 10 is "good".

So if you and I took a current six and you allowed him to practice 8 hours a day with no instruction and I took a six and paired them up with a top pro for fours a day which one would get to a ten speed faster in your opinion?

The question you just asked is not relevant. What you just asked me was which player do I think would improve faster than the other player.

 

[JB Cases]

The question you just asked is not relevant. What you just asked me was which player do I think would improve faster than the other player.

That is exactly relevant to the idea that there are no shortcuts.

Your statement was that there are no shortcuts in pool to getting good.

So here you have two 6-speed players, one is getting instruction from a top player and the other one is on his own.

Which of these two players is likely to reach the status of ten in your area in the shortest amount of time given the same conditions?

I am not talking about the on-his-own player being in action 8 hours a day.

I am talking about him going to to the pool room and practicing without instruction for 8 hours a day while in another place the other player is being coached for 4 hours a day by a top pro.

Which one of these two players is likely to reach 10-speed in your area faster and why?

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I gotta go, JB. They're about to turn the lights out here at the home and the floor nurse gets really pissed if anyone is still up past ten. And besides, I've got a headache. :smile:

 

[searcyD]

There aren't shortcuts. It's extremely difficult to become a complete player. First off, you have to be clued in to this fact and believe it. Then there is a path.


How do balls move? do they roll?

Knowing these things and a bunch of other secrets is what makes you a better player. You're not a computer. No one can upgrade you.

 

[The Schwartz]

An aiming system is a gimmick if it doesn't help. Whatever system you use should help you be as accurate as possible, as quickly as possible. If it works for you, then it's not a gimmick, IMO.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[JB Cases]

I gotta go, JB. They're about to turn the lights out here at the home and the floor nurse gets really pissed if anyone is still up past ten. And besides, I've got a headache. :smile:

Well get some rest. If you lie down and relax and bring your blood pressure down then your headache should abate in several hours.

Or you can take a pill which will act as a shortcut to do the same thing for your body in less time.

 

[JB Cases]

I sure hope you are real tired, or drunk when you posted this. You can't be upgraded??? So, you wasted at least 12 years going to school to be 'upgraded'??? So, all those books and DVD's about pool are just a waste of time???

That seems strange to me because ever since the onslaught of information on how to play pool correctly, the number of shortstops has risen dramatically from what it was 20-30 years ago when knowledge was a well kept secret. hmmmm........ Sure seems like the info age has done a lot more for players than the fake it till you make it way of the past.

Neil,

Just forget it. These people don't want to think that there are ways to get better quicker because they had to do it "the hard way". They had to hang around the pool rooms and watch other players and pick up whatever crumbs were left. They had to hit a million balls and get incrementally better.

It galls them to think that people can develop ways to instruct that shave years off the learning curve. It pains them to think of all those years they put in and here comes someone who has only been playing for a few years who is "good" because of all the access to information and quality instruction.

They know full well that there are shortcuts to getting good and that players can get better faster (be upgraded) when they are introduced to proper techniques and certain 'secrets'. These people all know the guy who suddenly jumped two or three balls after getting lessons or starting to run with a better player. But they don't want to admit it. They want to cling to the idea that the only way to get better is to start at zero and figure it all out on your own even if none of them can or will admit that none of them ever got good on their own.

Find me one good player who says that they never learned something from someone else about how to play that helped them and I will show you a liar.

 

[manwon]

I don't see that most and certainly not all agree that "there are no real shortcuts."

There are very real shortcuts to learning how to play pool. Some people take advantage of them and others do not. Some people go their whole life and never even get an opportunity to learn them while others are fortunate enough to learn them right away when they start playing.

Anytime someone learns something that gives them immediate improvement, be it an aiming system, banking system, kicking system, proper stroking technique, how to figure shot percentages, certain patterns, etc... they have just shortened their path to becoming a good player considerably over the trial-and-error method.

As for a hypothetical - for those that think that there are no shortcuts.

If hypothetical novice A gets to learn under Buddy Hall for one year for four hours a day and hypothetical novice B gets to learn by himself for 8 hours a day with no instruction whatsoever which person do you want to bet on if they match up even in a TAR style race to 100 after that year of practice?

Some people take advantage of them and others do not. Some people go their whole life and never even get an opportunity to learn them while others are fortunate enough to learn them right away when they start playing

John in reality some people don't need any help learning how to play pool. I have a guy who comes into my room on regular basis who is a natural, he has never had any instruction and he can't even tell anyone how he does what he does, but he plays lights out. He is really a great player he can run rack after rack and I know for a fact that his only method of aiming is to mentally draw a line from the cue ball through the object ball to the pocket. I can also tell you that whether he is using center ball or any form of English he doesn't change a single thing. He just has a feel for the game of Pocket Billiards and while I do understand that there is more involved than what I have said above he doesn't. However, he is the exception not the rule and in my opinion so are short cuts to learning. Not because they don't exist, but because most people are not dedicated enough (They have a Life outside Pool), and because there are too many parts to this machine that only the individual can master before most of the so called short cuts will work effectively.


Anytime someone learns something that gives them immediate improvement, be it an aiming system, banking system, kicking system, proper stroking technique, how to figure shot percentages, certain patterns, etc... they have just shortened their path to becoming a good player considerably over the trial-and-error method.


First of all John most people who have played pool for years know that when any of us have a so called Epiphany and learn something new whether we are taught or find a gold nugget by accident this is just another change that must fully incorporated in the machine as a whole. Now generally during this process for most people these changes will at first appear to be a distraction and they often cause a players game to loose a little accuracy not increase it short term which in my opinion precludes this being a short cut. The benefit from something learned in pool for most people is long term.

If hypothetical novice A gets to learn under Buddy Hall for one year for four hours a day and hypothetical novice B gets to learn by himself for 8 hours a day with no instruction whatsoever which person do you want to bet on if they match up even in a TAR style race to 100 after that year of practice?[/QUOTE]


Since we are being Hypothetical here it all depends upon the individual, some will excel, others will improve but not nearly as much and still others will not really learn a thing, that they can understand. Everything is based on the individual so in my opinion a Hypothetical situation really doesn't apply here even though to some it may appear to. No matter who is taught by whom, no matter how long they are taught it all comes down to what they can build within themselves and what they can absorb from the lesson. Because they still have to practice, and they still have to translate what they have learned into a working model for themselves.


JIMO

 

[manwon]

Well get some rest. If you lie down and relax and bring your blood pressure down then your headache should abate in several hours.

Or you can take a pill which will act as a shortcut to do the same thing for your body in less time.

Now that is funny shit John, I think I will refer you as Doctor John from this point forward!!!!

 

[peteypooldude]

This is what my aiming system does for me.Most of you know that I use CTE.And how I use it is as follows.I decide where I am going with the cb and the spin and stroke required.Then I sight my edge,slide into my shot and pivot to center.At that point when I look up and see that I am dead nuts in line.I then make an adjustment for the spin if needed and pull the trigger.Same every time for every shot.Now unlike some I could care less who believes this and frankly am fighting with myself about whether I want the information out .Well I dont want the information out but at the same time I feel guilty for not helping some that I would like to help.I started helping John Barton to begin with but he went public with it before I finished,that was something that I did not want.No hard feelings with John because he did not have enough information to do any damage and the tidbits he did get (not just from me)seems to have helped his game.But for the people who think it is a gimmick it makes me laugh.With all this crap that has been talked,why put the information in their hands.I hope it gets taught one person at a time and never goes public.So when your laughing ,your getting laughed at.Peteypooldude

 

[JB Cases]

This is what my aiming system does for me.Most of you know that I use CTE.And how I use it is as follows.I decide where I am going with the cb and the spin and stroke required.Then I sight my edge,slide into my shot and pivot to center.At that point when I look up and see that I am dead nuts in line.I then make an adjustment for the spin if needed and pull the trigger.Same every time for every shot.Now unlike some I could care less who believes this and frankly am fighting with myself about whether I want the information out .Well I dont want the information out but at the same time I feel guilty for not helping some that I would like to help.I started helping John Barton to begin with but he went public with it before I finished,that was something that I did not want.No hard feelings with John because he did not have enough information to do any damage and the tidbits he did get (not just from me)seems to have helped his game.But for the people who think it is a gimmick it makes me laugh.With all this crap that has been talked,why put the information in their hands.I hope it gets taught one person at a time and never goes public.So when your laughing ,your getting laughed at.Peteypooldude

Yeah man I am sorry about that. I got really frustrated with the skeptics and wanted to "prove" that it works.

Have a good one and THANK YOU for the help you did give me. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT and it has helped me out to become a better player.

 

[searcyD]

I sure hope you are real tired, or drunk when you posted this. You can't be upgraded??? So, you wasted at least 12 years going to school to be 'upgraded'??? So, all those books and DVD's about pool are just a waste of time???

That seems strange to me because ever since the onslaught of information on how to play pool correctly, the number of shortstops has risen dramatically from what it was 20-30 years ago when knowledge was a well kept secret. hmmmm........ Sure seems like the info age has done a lot more for players than the fake it till you make it way of the past.

I know a guy that would make your head spin if he were to sit down and talk about some of the things you think is happening at the table. But to my understanding, most people are too stubborn to realize that he's not bullshitting them. Instead they want to throw stones at him and label him a know it all. The stuff he knows is "way up there", and can only be shown at the table. Putting it on paper is going to take up too many pages.

I stated that there isn't a shortcut. Its hard and time consuming.

Knowledge is still a well kept secret.

I'm not going to waste my time answering any more of your silly questions.

Leave a message.....beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!

 

[searcyD]

Neil,

Just forget it. These people don't want to think that there are ways to get better quicker because they had to do it "the hard way". They had to hang around the pool rooms and watch other players and pick up whatever crumbs were left. They had to hit a million balls and get incrementally better.

It galls them to think that people can develop ways to instruct that shave years off the learning curve. It pains them to think of all those years they put in and here comes someone who has only been playing for a few years who is "good" because of all the access to information and quality instruction.

They know full well that there are shortcuts to getting good and that players can get better faster (be upgraded) when they are introduced to proper techniques and certain 'secrets'. These people all know the guy who suddenly jumped two or three balls after getting lessons or starting to run with a better player. But they don't want to admit it. They want to cling to the idea that the only way to get better is to start at zero and figure it all out on your own even if none of them can or will admit that none of them ever got good on their own.

Find me one good player who says that they never learned something from someone else about how to play that helped them and I will show you a liar.

I'm afraid to use logic...you may just flip out.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[JoeyInCali]

If it's being sold as " the secret the pros don't want you to know ", it might just be a gimmick.

Not a gimmick, Marvin Chin's system.
Can of worms. Have fun.

 

[manwon]

If it's being sold as " the secret the pros don't want you to know ", it might just be a gimmick.

Not a gimmick, Marvin Chin's system.
Can of worms. Have fun.

Worms are Fun Joey unless they are coming out of your Butt!!!!!