How can we as players really tell if an Aiming System is a Gimmick or not!!!!!

Aiming Systems Validity

People either love or hate the words--Aiming Systems

Regardless if you use an already invented method if it speaks volumes to you so be it. Im glad someone is playing pool and paying for their pool time.

A reference point is always nice to have ie someone said earlier they had trouble placing the ghost ball. Wouldnt be nice if something told you--hey place it here! I have trouble understanding the ghost so I use reference point method I made up and it works so well my game is up a couple of balls.

I was having trouble with some pass over banks and someone showed me a reference point now I make them more times than not and many times my feel takes over and I better know what to do.

I tend to believe that whatever one does mostly what is happening is reference point recognition. If your system happens to geometrically correct a good bit of the time thats a plus too. For the rest of the time your feel can take over and youre good.

Im not sure there will ever be a method where some feel isnt needed so I think its best if you keep it as "real with feel" as possible and understand what it is you do and not blindy trust any one thing to be your salvation in shot making.

So do you call that an aiming system or is a system to learn how to aim?

I think a system to learn how to aim.

336robin:thumbup:
 
You're a fu#$ing genius.

Tramp Steamer said:
I do not believe that it is advantageous for a novice player to study an aiming system. It is my opinion that they (aiming systems) do more harm than good and only serve to impede and prolong a new players progress.
Yesterday I introduced the 'Intermedie-Petey' system to the forum. As it turns out, it had an uncanny similarity to the P.I.I.T.H. method and boy was my face red.
Today I am introducing a completely new system that is ridiculously elegant in it's simplicity. It is called the Monkey See, Monkey Do system, or MSMD for short.
The new pool player should, if deserious about learning to play pool, hang around a pool hall as much as possible, and prefferably one that has nine-foot tables. I do not recommend hanging out in bars for obvious reasons.
The new player should quietly watch other players, especially the very good ones, play pool. Their observations should include the fundementals of stance, grip, bridge, etc., with particular attention given to how the good player addresses the object ball and executes the shot.
The new player should then go to a table alone and begin shooting balls. Ball, after ball, after ball. In time, this action will pay off. The unconscious mind will meld his or her observations of others with the time spent practicing shots, and the new player will develope at a good pace. Once a new player has become known around the room they are free to ask questions of better players and the pace will quicken.
What I have described is they way that I learned to play pool, and I'm a good pool player. Almost all the people I know who play pool have learned this very same way, and I'll wager that thousands of members of this forum have developed their skills in this same manner.
In conclusion, I believe that aiming systems are gimmicky in as much as they give the illusion of a quick-fix when in reality there is none.
Thanks for listening. :smile:
Click to expand...

I've hit the rep button thirty-seven times. I just can't rep you any more. If you put this to music, I'll buy a copy of the cd. If you'll make this into a poster, I'll post this in my store. If you'll write this in poetic form, I'll stand up and read it during the US Open. What else? Oh, if you were a hot chick, I'd....well wait, I'm getting off track.
 
Glad to hear................

peteypooldude said:
When you stand at the table and pocket balls for 20 minutes and dont miss a ball and win 3 consecutive tournaments.That convinced me I am on the right track.If your not stroking straight,then that does not have anything to do with an aiming system being a gimmick .That is 2 completely different things.
Click to expand...

Keep up the good work......geno.....
 
If you spend more money to learn it than you make while using it, it's a gimmick. :eek:

All feel, all the time, and that goes double for banking. ;)
 
Neil said:
I'll just say this- There are none so blind as those that will not see; there are none so deaf as those that will not hear.
Click to expand...


I totally agree and their are none that will miss more shots than those who can't accurately stroke through the cue ball and properly deliver it to it's intended target!!!!!:smile:
 
manwon said:
I totally agree and their are none that will miss more shots than those who can't accurately stroke through the cue ball and properly deliver it to it's intended target!!!!!:smile:
Click to expand...

Just treat it like Caddyshack and go nanananana after every shot. Guaranteed to win!
 
I just want to drop this tidbit about time spent,Without owning a table or having unlimited access to a table at the time of your choosing I can see where it would be difficult if not overwhelming to overhaul your game with new methods,if you do not have the right tools(table,internet,free time)then it is harder to comprehend and adjust to new methods or systems.I think this is where a lot of the confusion comes from
Peteypooldude
 
If you pick up a cue, hit a cue ball at an object ball with intent to make it go in a certain direction---you my friend have an aiming system. Period.
 
I think the steamer just described how 99% of all the top players past and present learned to play. I know its the only way i learned.I also knew many great players in the past, and trial and error,which means practice, practice, practice is how they learned to play at a high level,along with natural ability. People also need to understand that they made pool their main passion in life while learning. Also, its hard for people to except,but most will never play at a high level reguardless of how much work they put in! I know people who have shelfs of training video's,taken leasons, have their own table,and played hrs a day for yrs, and are still a B player,no natural ability.99% will never get past a A player,with the majority never getting past a B player. Just my opinion of watching people play for 40yrs. When someone shows be proff of a better way, I will be all ears! Also,when players reach a high level,its over 90% mental then.
 
Thank you to everyone who has posted to this thread, I think that most of us if not all can agree that there are no real short cuts. There are far to many factors that effect how anyone plays, how well they will hold up under pressure, and how fast they will improve their God given abilities. The reason I started this thread was not create any drama or to poke fun at anyones methods only to help those who are genuinely interested in improving their personal ability understand what must be accomplished to get the results they desire.

For those who fall into this category in my opinion it is important to focus as much time as possible on your fundamentals, the best way do this is to take a lesson from a well known instructor that is well versed in teaching fundamentals. Another method that can certainly be very effective for some not all is simply watching good players to see how they stand, how they address the table and how they stroke different shots. Much can be gained by this method, however, it may not work well for everyone.

Once a player has begun methods of practice and they come to the point where their basic fundamentals are becoming a natural part of their pre-shot routine then alternate methods of aiming may be helpful. In my opinion most people develop aiming methods naturally as they learn the basic fundamentals, of stance and stroke. So I think that at this point other methods of aiming may increase some ones shot accuracy if they are not already using a method that works well for them, just like everything else if something isn't broke it is never wise to try and fix it this lead to disaster.


Again thanks to all who have posted to this thread, I am certain that everyone has the same intent and that is to help others not to create confusion, I mean helping others is what this forum is all about.
 
Neil said:
This may get long, hopefully it won't.:embarrassed2::rolleyes: It sure seems to me that many on here just plain do not understand the concept of aiming systems. That is why I posted what I did previously in this thread, the post about the blind and deaf.

For some reason, many seem to take the attitude that any aiming system being described is supposed to automatically make you an A or better player. That you will never miss, ect. Nothing is farther from the truth. No proponent of aiming systems ever claimed that. All they have claimed, is that it makes aiming much, much easier, and will put you on the right aiming line.

As we all know, that is only one part of a multi-part equation to pocketing any ball. First and foremost, you have to be able to repeatedly stroke straight. Then you have to be on the correct line to make the ball. Then you have to adjust for english, then you have to know what speed to use, and how that will affect the shot at hand. You need to have ALL parts of the equation in place, or you will fail. Aiming systems just help with one part of the equation, usually two, depending on the system. Stroking straight and being on the right line are the two most important parts.

Since aiming systems put you on the correct line, they are therefore, a shortcut to getting on the right line. An aiming system makes you approach the table the same way each and every time. Know matter what system you use, you still have an element of feel to it. There is no way around it. Some systems, however, can greatly reduce the amount of feel to a minimum. The more feel is reduced, the better the system.

Example- I have one student that plays APA. This person would fluctuate from a normal 6 to a 5 for a few weeks, then back to a normal 6. This person has been playing for over 20 years, and has watched many decent players. This person was plateaud. I have been giving said person lessons for a few weeks now, couple hours a week. Persons game has been improving some, person can't really practice as needed due to a bad back and legs. Practice time is severely limited.

I showed this person an aiming system two weeks ago. Person took to it immediately and was just amazed by it. Couldn't understand how they had never seen anything like this before. Said person is now being accused of being a sandbagger, that they should be at least a 7. Point is, the aiming system gave this person a set way to approach each and every shot that put them on the correct line. While I stress that fine tuning is still necessary, many times the ball can just be one stroked and go in. This person is now missing much, much less, due to being on the right line, and not just feeling like they are on the right line.

20+years of working on their game, and in two short hours, I jumped her up a level. Yes, I call that a shortcut. Going to any instructor is a shortcut. He will tell you things to do that would take you years to figure out on your own. Shortcuts are just that, faster ways to learn something that could take years to learn otherwise if they ever are learned otherwise. There is nothing at all wrong with shortcuts. No one claims that aiming systems are anything other than that. They are shortcuts to get you on the correct line each and every time. What you do once you are on that line, falls into other parts of the equation for a successful shot.

If you have read this far, hopefully, this has cleared up a little of the controversy on here about aiming systems. If not, well...... I tried.
Click to expand...




Once a player has begun methods of practice and they come to the point where their basic fundamentals are becoming a natural part of their pre-shot routine then alternate methods of aiming may be helpful.[COLOR="Red"]Sounds like you don't understand the premise behind aiming systems. [/COLOR]


I may not understand the premise according to your view, but in my opinion stroke and stance are far more important to all players than aiming method's are. Not everyone needs to learn an aiming method, some people just naturally can see a line of aim. However, in people who miss a high percentage of their shots an aiming method may be something to look into, but many other factors could be causing them to miss not their aiming method.


In my opinion most people develop aiming methods naturally as they learn the basic fundamentals, of stance and strokeDepends on if they went to an instructor or not..


Every person I have every seen play pool develops methods that they use for aiming, some are very good and some not so good, but I disagree that some one must find an instructor to develop natural methods for aiming. I would also like to add that instructors are also just people, some are great, some are good, and some are nothing more than the blind leading the blind. But instructors in my opinion are not a short cut, in fact they are the same as a book for some people. The way people learn is certainly different, some can learn by reading, others must learn by doing, and then there are those who can incorporate all methods of learning. However, all the information gathered must still be used effectively and that takes practice by the student and like with everything else some can learn quickly and some may never get it at all.

So I think that at this point other methods of aiming may increase some ones shot accuracy if they are not already using a method that works well for them, just like everything else if something isn't broke it is never wise to try and fix it this lead to disaster.
Sorry, shortsighted view here imho. Just because it's not broke, doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

I have had to deal many people who held your view for more than half my life when I was in the Army, and in most cases it created more problems than it solved. If something works well for some one and it achieves the desired goals that are set aside for what is being done change is not necessary. In fact these changes can harm some one long term, even though they appear to help in the short term. So, I have to disagree with here again, but that is what a discussion is all about.:smile:
 
Last edited:
Neil said:
Since aiming systems put you on the correct line, they are therefore, a shortcut to getting on the right line. An aiming system makes you approach the table the same way each and every time.
Click to expand...

I prefer to sneak up on my shot and scare it into the pocket! :eek: ;)
 
exoldschoolpro said:
I think the steamer just described how 99% of all the top players past and present learned to play. I know its the only way i learned.I also knew many great players in the past, and trial and error,which means practice, practice, practice is how they learned to play at a high level,along with natural ability. People also need to understand that they made pool their main passion in life while learning. Also, its hard for people to except,but most will never play at a high level reguardless of how much work they put in! I know people who have shelfs of training video's,taken leasons, have their own table,and played hrs a day for yrs, and are still a B player,no natural ability.99% will never get past a A player,with the majority never getting past a B player. Just my opinion of watching people play for 40yrs. When someone shows be proff of a better way, I will be all ears! Also,when players reach a high level,its over 90% mental then.
Click to expand...

So are you willing to go on record and tell us you never learned anything from anyone else that improved your understanding of the game and shortened your learning time? Or is EVERYTHING "trial and error" and self-taught.

You all really kill me because now the whole debate has shifted to the "no shortcuts" soapbox while at the same advocating shortcuts - I.e. get instruction.

Because if one gets instruction then that in itself IS a shortcut over the trial and error method of learning.

Learning GHOSTBALL is a shortcut over the trial and error method.

It's so funny how so many people on this forum want to ridicule others for talking about "systems" and the like by claiming that there are no shortcuts and yet they won't admit that they themselves have been taught and adopted ways to play learned from others.

i.e. shortcuts.

By the way Tramp Steamer and Crawfish, study is the "shortcut" over trial and error.

If you study the good players and make notes of what they are doing then you are learning without having to discover the things they know for yourself. So get it straight what you want to tell people. Either there are no shortcuts to getting good or there are.

Which is it?
 
JB Cases said:
So are you willing to go on record and tell us you never learned anything from anyone else that improved your understanding of the game and shortened your learning time? Or is EVERYTHING "trial and error" and self-taught.

You all really kill me because now the whole debate has shifted to the "no shortcuts" soapbox while at the same advocating shortcuts - I.e. get instruction.

Because if one gets instruction then that in itself IS a shortcut over the trial and error method of learning.

Learning GHOSTBALL is a shortcut over the trial and error method.

It's so funny how so many people on this forum want to ridicule others for talking about "systems" and the like by claiming that there are no shortcuts and yet they won't admit that they themselves have been taught and adopted ways to play learned from others.

i.e. shortcuts.

By the way Tramp Steamer and Crawfish, study is the "shortcut" over trial and error.

If you study the good players and make notes of what they are doing then you are learning without having to discover the things they know for yourself. So get it straight what you want to tell people. Either there are no shortcuts to getting good or there are.

Which is it?
Click to expand...


If someone were to ask me if there are shortcuts to getting good (assuming they meant at playing pool) my answer would be no, there are not. :smile:
 
manwon said:
Thank you to everyone who has posted to this thread, I think that most of us if not all can agree that there are no real short cuts.
Click to expand...

I don't see that most and certainly not all agree that "there are no real shortcuts."

There are very real shortcuts to learning how to play pool. Some people take advantage of them and others do not. Some people go their whole life and never even get an opportunity to learn them while others are fortunate enough to learn them right away when they start playing.

Anytime someone learns something that gives them immediate improvement, be it an aiming system, banking system, kicking system, proper stroking technique, how to figure shot percentages, certain patterns, etc... they have just shortened their path to becoming a good player considerably over the trial-and-error method.

As for a hypothetical - for those that think that there are no shortcuts.

If hypothetical novice A gets to learn under Buddy Hall for one year for four hours a day and hypothetical novice B gets to learn by himself for 8 hours a day with no instruction whatsoever which person do you want to bet on if they match up even in a TAR style race to 100 after that year of practice?
 
JB Cases said:
Ok. So what is "good" in your opinion?
Click to expand...


The word 'good', as it relates to pool playing, or anything else for that matter, is highly subjective. You would only be as good, for instance, as the last person you won against. If that same person, say, had you back at the table and won against you, what then? Were you once good? Not as good? Still good? The word 'good', in my opinion, has little application to ones prowess at pool.
It is more useful when describing Mom and apple pie. :smile:
 
Tramp Steamer said:
The word 'good', as it relates to pool playing, or anything else for that matter, is highly subjective. You would only be as good, for instance, as the last person you won against. If that same person, say, had you back at the table and won against you, what then? Were you once good? Not as good? Still good? The word 'good', in my opinion, has little application to ones prowess at pool.
It is more useful when describing Mom and apple pie. :smile:
Click to expand...

It's objective as well. We have various ways to rate players that are more or less in line around the country.

Is a shortstop "good" - how about an APA 9? A BCA master player?

A 12 in Tulsa?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top