How does a table play this way?

GeoEnvi

GeoEnvi

Diamond System Enthusiast
Silver Member
During the last few weeks, my league team traveled to a few different bars - some with nice tables, some with not so nice ones.

I always check the table ahead of time to see how the rails and cloth is playing. One of the shots is the familiar bottom left corner, 3 rails to bottom right corner path shooting at 5th diamond on opposite long rail. On most tables, this shot runs a little short of the corner pocket, so I adjust toward the 5.5 or 6.th diamond.

On two of the tables this week, I could not get the CB to hit the corner - even after adjusting aim down toward the 7th diamond! Always came up 1/2 diamond short.

A couple questions:

- How does a table end up playing this way?
- Which rail affects the CB path the most? 1st? 2nd? 3rd?



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Look to the league officers and representatives. Our league has a section of the rules related to tables. Suggest you get a group together to develop then enforce something similar.

TABLE REQUIREMENTS
1. Tables shall be maintained in a reasonable condition.

2. Tables must be free of obstructions on at least three (3) sides and the fourth side must be a reasonable distance from any wall, post, or obstruction.

3. A level table should be maintained and table should be resurfaced whenever necessary.

4. A foul line is required on the break end of the table and a spot on the rack end.

5. All tables must be stationary.

6. A standard size cue ball should be used whenever possible.

7. It is the responsibility of the grievance committee to check and re-certify any table about which a complaint has been received.

8. At least four (4) cue sticks of standard length, a bridge, a good rack, and two (2) pieces of chalk must be on hand for all league competition.

9. The balls on the table at 3:00 p.m. are to be used during league play unless a change is mutually agreed upon.

:grin:
 
My standard for this shot is no english, just firm center ball,
aim for 2nd diamond (6th diamond from the other direction),
should scratch on most factory brunswicks with average worn simonis.

I've never had a situation where I couldn't lengthen it out enough.
That's VERY weird.

In the VNEA regional event in canada, they had brand new felt on valley barboxes
and I couldn't shorten it enough.
I hit the middle of the foot rail aiming for the 2nd diamond.
Adjusted down a diamond, hit the foot rail again. Went down to hit just after the side pocket,
it lengthened out and hit the foot rail again.
I think it even did this after hitting below the side with a little running english. Very weird.

In your case, my guess is the rails are very lively, the cloth is a little slow and sticky
and doesn't slide at all, giving the cue ball no chance to lengthen out,
maybe the cue ball is a bit light?

Do you use any spin on this shot or no?
 
I always spin the ball away for that shot so if I'm starting bottom right I will use a bit of right off the left side rail...

Not sure how others do it.
 
I was using running english for the shots. One table was using the measle ball, so I went with high running english. The other table had a slightly oversize CB, so I used 9 o-clock running only.

Still... couldn't lengthen out the shot to hit the pocket. I'm thinking it was the foot rail or the opposite long rail.
 
In Virtual Pool 3, that shot to scratch in the corner with a center med hit, is aimed at the 5th diamond. Perhaps this is the theoretical perfect table?
My Diamond Pro 9ft. with 760 and Artemis, requires a 6th diamond aim.
Most tables I've tried were between 5.5 and 6 diamonds.

Dan
 
one of the rooms near me had old Diamonds and it was not possible to get the ball to hit the bottom rail (long) on the 3railler with running spinglish.
 
GeoEnvi said:
... - How does a table end up playing this way?
- Which rail affects the CB path the most? 1st? 2nd? 3rd? ...
Click to expand...
1. The bumpers are goofy. Some tables get that way. It could be from either a cushion that plays dead and the ball tends to go longer off it (more along the rail) or a cushion that plays lively/sticky and the ball bounces more perpendicular off the rail than it should. The mechanics forum might get more specific about the causes, but dirty rails, high/low rails, loose rubber and hardened rubber are some possible basic causes.
2. Most pool tables for the corner-5 shot you were describing send the cue ball to the right place on the third rail but then the rail plays a little short according to the basic corner-5 which was developed for 10-foot carom tables. That's for worn cloth -- for new cloth most pool tables are closer to the system. The system says if you shoot from the corner to one diamond past the opposite side pocket with running english the cue ball should to or towards the second diamond from the corner pocket for the third cushion and then to the corner pocket. The table you had a problem with could have either short-playing first and third rails or a long-playing second rail. You would have to look at more angles to figure out which. And some tables have just one cushion or part of a cushion that's screwed up.
 
Bob Jewett said:
... 2. Most pool tables for the corner-5 shot you were describing send the cue ball to the right place on the third rail ...
Click to expand...
Someone pointed out in a PM that it is very important to use a particular stroke for table testing. In the case of the corner-5, the most consistent way for me to try it is with equal amounts of follow and running side and fairly far off center. By consistent, I mean that it seems most consistent across variations in cushions and cloth. Some people like to shoot with no side spin and some with extreme side and a little draw. That's certainly not the way any good 3C player I know of would approach the typical natural shot.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Someone pointed out in a PM that it is very important to use a particular stroke for table testing. In the case of the corner-5, the most consistent way for me to try it is with equal amounts of follow and running side and fairly far off center. By consistent, I mean that it seems most consistent across variations in cushions and cloth. Some people like to shoot with no side spin and some with extreme side and a little draw. That's certainly not the way any good 3C player I know of would approach the typical natural shot.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I start with a similar stroke on most tables, and then adjust as needed to get the table to play as close to expected as possible.

I think your explanation of the rails 'just playing goofy' is what I settled on. That 'perpendicular rebound' you speak of seems to happen when the rail cloth is pulled too tightly over old rubber. Saw that - for sure - on one of the tables I was playing on.
 
Well... one of the tables at work is exactly like that. I can never do that shot. And I reported it since the very first time I played on it.

Turns out, the table measures are totally wrong... Instead of being 100 x 50 inches (a regular 9-foot table measures) it is 100 x 48 inches.

It's impossible to do any banking here the way i'd do it in any other table. The more rails are involved, the worst the results. Except one-rail banks using one of the short rails.

The corner pockets are also crappy... The felt... well... In few words, the installers (Greater Southerns Atlanta) did a terrible work. And it wasn't a cheap table, it's Brunswick Centurion.

The other table is a 9-foot Oldhausen Grand Champion bought to Games and Things. That one works great.
 
WillCastillo said:
... Instead of being 100 x 50 inches (a regular 9-foot table measures) it is 100 x 48 inches. ... And it wasn't a cheap table, it's Brunswick Centurion. ...
Click to expand...
For the moment I'm incredulous (if not incredible). It is hard to believe that Brunswick could have gotten this wrong. Are you sure the measurement (from nose to nose on the cushions) is really 2 inches short in the shorter dimension?

On the other hand, if the cushions are each 2 inches wide (the cloth-covered part from the nose to the feather strip) the total green dimensions would be 104 by 52 which is in fact the proper 2:1 ratio.

I would be much obliged if you would measure again.
 
The rails get damaged from breaking the balls......

Every time you break the balls they hit the rail in the same place and very hard.

Over time you will see in the track,( the track is where the ball rolls down the rail making kind if a line,) these lines will be much brighter on the end the balls are broke in certain spots

This also makes these tables break extra hard or extra easy. You never know until you break. This is why one break will work on this table and the next one you can't make a ball.

With Diamond tables this is not as much of a problem. Somehow the rails are just tougher. Those tables are built like a tank.

Anytime you break the balls in these areas you need to beware.

I couldn't tell you how many times I have won or lost a tourny because of this situation.

It's very easy to see on a table where the felt and rails are worn.

But many times the table is recovered and hides these little land mines on the table.

If your ball is hitting on one of these places it will be very tough to be consistent from table to table.

Once you understand this you can use it to your advantage.

Maybe play safe if you see those white lines for sure>
 
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Bob Jewett said:
For the moment I'm incredulous (if not incredible). It is hard to believe that Brunswick could have gotten this wrong. Are you sure the measurement (from nose to nose on the cushions) is really 2 inches short in the shorter dimension?

On the other hand, if the cushions are each 2 inches wide (the cloth-covered part from the nose to the feather strip) the total green dimensions would be 104 by 52 which is in fact the proper 2:1 ratio.

I would be much obliged if you would measure again.
Click to expand...

Hey Bob,

I measured it months ago... and I might have made a mistake. However, I guess I used the same criteria while measuring both tables... but who knows.

I'll measure it again and if I'm right, I'll post a video on YouTube and get back to this thread with the URL. If I made a mistake, I'll come back and retract myself.
 
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