How Does an APA 7 Go Down to a 6?

Logandgriff

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've been an APA 7 in eight ball for years. I have probably been on the low end of the sevens in terms of skill the entire time but managed to eke out a winning percentage over the years. Now at age 72 my fire power is apparently diminishing and even though I have had about a 20% win ratio over the last few years, I remain a 7. Does anybody have any insight on what it takes to move down a notch? Thanks much.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been an APA 7 in eight ball for years. I have probably been on the low end of the sevens in terms of skill the entire time but managed to eke out a winning percentage over the years. Now at age 72 my fire power is apparently diminishing and even though I have had about a 20% win ratio over the last few years, I remain a 7. Does anybody have any insight on what it takes to move down a notch? Thanks much.
Stall like hell. ;)
 

Texas Carom Club

play 1cushion & balkline
Silver Member
Someone once told me once you go to Vegas as whatever skill level, you can't go below it again, locked in.

I don't know if it's true or not though.
 

crazy8legs

Registered
Have you gone to Vegas as a 7? If you have I've heard you will forever be locked in as one.

If not I'm not sure. I'm a crappy 7 but I have yet to go down and it's been like three years since I moved up (and I'm still a 6 in 9 ball...)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched a friend lose every match for a year and not go down. The league operator contacted the state and got the run around. Finally we got a mess of signatures of players that said they would leave the APA if he was not lowered. That was sent to the APA headquarters. Suddenly he went down.
 

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Seriously??? Another reason i never played APA i guess.
I suspect the reason you never played APA is because you put credence in stuff like this.

Any operator who is any good will listen to your story and make an honest decision. If you have a Championship Lowest Attainable (mentioned by others here as being "locked in" after a trip to nationals), that can be seen in the app and the operator can only appeal that to the national office (all mentioned in the team manual, not a secret, anyone who qualifies that with "I've heard" simply has no interest in reading the team manual). The LO may not have the power to effect a change themselves, but at least they can suggest a change. My suggestion is to have a conversation with your LO, be honest, and don't expect a complete answer right away. Details of the handicapping system are regarded as a trade secret and divulging those details, even to a completely honest person who has no intention of wrongdoing, is a breach of the LO's contract and can cause them to lose their franchise. So if it seems like the LO is trying to talk around some things, they probably are just trying not to give away those trade secrets. It's natural to mistrust LO's who are required to keep certain things secret, but all the LO's I know are honest people trying to be as fair as they can within the limits of their contracts. I will warn you though, any attempt at gaming the system may (hopefully will, but some people are very good at being dishonest) eventually be discovered, at which point all bets regarding help from the LO are off.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I suspect the reason you never played APA is because you put credence in stuff like this.

Any operator who is any good will listen to your story and make an honest decision. If you have a Championship Lowest Attainable (mentioned by others here as being "locked in" after a trip to nationals), that can be seen in the app and the operator can only appeal that to the national office (all mentioned in the team manual, not a secret, anyone who qualifies that with "I've heard" simply has no interest in reading the team manual). The LO may not have the power to effect a change themselves, but at least they can suggest a change. My suggestion is to have a conversation with your LO, be honest, and don't expect a complete answer right away. Details of the handicapping system are regarded as a trade secret and divulging those details, even to a completely honest person who has no intention of wrongdoing, is a breach of the LO's contract and can cause them to lose their franchise. So if it seems like the LO is trying to talk around some things, they probably are just trying not to give away those trade secrets. It's natural to mistrust LO's who are required to keep certain things secret, but all the LO's I know are honest people trying to be as fair as they can within the limits of their contracts. I will warn you though, any attempt at gaming the system may (hopefully will, but some people are very good at being dishonest) eventually be discovered, at which point all bets regarding help from the LO are off.
Instead of a number rating why doesnt the APA use something akin to Fargo or even Fargo itself? To me it seems like a much better system.
 

Tom1234

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been an APA 7 in eight ball for years. I have probably been on the low end of the sevens in terms of skill the entire time but managed to eke out a winning percentage over the years. Now at age 72 my fire power is apparently diminishing and even though I have had about a 20% win ratio over the last few years, I remain a 7. Does anybody have any insight on what it takes to move down a notch? Thanks much.
I’m in the same boat; age and everything you pointed out. My win ratio to other 7s is in the low 20% too. Here’s the kick in the ass; my winning % against all other SLs is less than 50%. I asked the league operator this: if you can’t beat other 7s, how can you be a 7? All I got was strange look that said “you just asked a question that would make me look bad if I answered it”. I then quit playing 8 ball and will only play 9 ball where my hcp is closer to what it should be. Keep in mind this; all league operators want to continue to raise handicaps so that more teams will be formed to increase their revenue. It’s that simple.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I suspect the reason you never played APA is because you put credence in stuff like this.

Any operator who is any good will listen to your story and make an honest decision. If you have a Championship Lowest Attainable (mentioned by others here as being "locked in" after a trip to nationals), that can be seen in the app and the operator can only appeal that to the national office (all mentioned in the team manual, not a secret, anyone who qualifies that with "I've heard" simply has no interest in reading the team manual). The LO may not have the power to effect a change themselves, but at least they can suggest a change. My suggestion is to have a conversation with your LO, be honest, and don't expect a complete answer right away. Details of the handicapping system are regarded as a trade secret and divulging those details, even to a completely honest person who has no intention of wrongdoing, is a breach of the LO's contract and can cause them to lose their franchise. So if it seems like the LO is trying to talk around some things, they probably are just trying not to give away those trade secrets. It's natural to mistrust LO's who are required to keep certain things secret, but all the LO's I know are honest people trying to be as fair as they can within the limits of their contracts. I will warn you though, any attempt at gaming the system may (hopefully will, but some people are very good at being dishonest) eventually be discovered, at which point all bets regarding help from the LO are off.
The fact that your reply sounded like an attorney affirms my reasons for not playing APA. Never played in any handicapped league for a multitude of reasons. Too much drama to be any fun imo.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been an APA 7 in eight ball for years. I have probably been on the low end of the sevens in terms of skill the entire time but managed to eke out a winning percentage over the years. Now at age 72 my fire power is apparently diminishing and even though I have had about a 20% win ratio over the last few years, I remain a 7. Does anybody have any insight on what it takes to move down a notch? Thanks much.
I don’t know how the APA rating system works, but senior players (certainly 70s and older), even if they’ve been playing their entire lives, should be allowed to have their APA rating lowered when their skill / execution level warrants as necessary, just like senior golfers at all levels are allowed for their handicaps to increase.
 

Woodshaft

All pockets are too small
APA 8-ball SL's are based solely on average innings per game, kind of like accustats. Wins/losses mean nothing. And safeties don't count as innings. So you can lose a long safety-battle game for example, but you could still end up playing a "one or two inning game", which keeps you at your high SL. Also, as others have pointed out, once you play in a major APA tourney you get locked into your SL. This is to help prevent sand-bagging, but the olders players, as they slowly lose their skill, definitely get hosed.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
APA 8-ball SL's are based solely on average innings per game, kind of like accustats. Wins/losses mean nothing. And safeties don't count as innings. So you can lose a long safety-battle game for example, but you could still end up playing a "one or two inning game", which keeps you at your high SL. Also, as others have pointed out, once you play in a major APA tourney you get locked into your SL. This is to help prevent sand-bagging, but the olders players, as they slowly lose their skill, definitely get hosed.
Possibly not, but I was told that it's one of the quickest ways to get your handicap raised.

For example: If you average a 10 inning game, but 9 of them involved you playing safeties, then expect your handicap to go up. Much like it would if all you had was 1 inning games.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My win ratio to other 7s is in the low 20% too. Here’s the kick in the ass; my winning % against all other SLs is less than 50%.
If you beat SL 6s more than 50% and loose to SL 7s more than 50%, you are in the proper SL class as an SL 7.
 

Woodshaft

All pockets are too small
Possibly not, but I was told that it's one of the quickest ways to get your handicap raised.

For example: If you average a 10 inning game, but 9 of them involved you playing safeties, then expect your handicap to go up. Much like it would if all you had was 1 inning games.
Safety play can help RAISE your handicap, and MAINTAIN your handicap if you're an SL7. So, if you wanna LOWER your handicap, play "safe" without actually calling a safety. "Miss intentionally with a purpose"-- leave your opponent tuff shots. This adds innings to your match which eventually will lower your handicap.
SL7s get matched up against other 7s a lot and thus the declining (older) SL7s are usually getting beat quickly, which keeps the inning count low, which keeps you BOTH stuck as a SL7. ONLY ONE PLAYER has to have a great game for both players to get rewarded. That's the problem with APA handicapping.
To properly sandbag in APA you have to "miss your shot intentionally while leaving your opponent a tuff shot". Create a longer game, don't call safeties. Trust me, I know lol. (But you didn't hear it from me). And this is why I now only play BCA-- sandbagging is tuffer-- love fargorate. I'm a 672 btw, if you're curious.
 

jaime_lion

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m in the same boat; age and everything you pointed out. My win ratio to other 7s is in the low 20% too. Here’s the kick in the ass; my winning % against all other SLs is less than 50%. I asked the league operator this: if you can’t beat other 7s, how can you be a 7? All I got was strange look that said “you just asked a question that would make me look bad if I answered it”. I then quit playing 8 ball and will only play 9 ball where my hcp is closer to what it should be. Keep in mind this; all league operators want to continue to raise handicaps so that more teams will be formed to increase their revenue. It’s that simple.
More money making shenanigans. I wont pretend to know anymore about any of this stuff but yeah more shenanigans.
 
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