I am an APA 7-9. I just went up to a 7-9, so I'm probably weaker than most 9's. A local BCA master asked me to join his 3 man 9 ball team next season. I did not have a minute to talk with him about it at the time, so I do not know how it works... but I've been under the impression that the masters are grouped together in their own division, the A's together, and so on. Whether or not that is true, I have no idea. I've been told that a 7-9 is usually the level of a B player or sometimes an A. So is it possible for me to join a team with two masters? And how do APA's skill levels compare to BCA? I can keep up just fine on the 7' with two masters whom I play with occasionally, so I'm having a hard time believing that a 7-9 is comparable to only a B player. Again, I have no idea how BCA works, so if someone could shed some light I would really appreciate it!
How does the BCAPL rating work and how does it compare to APA skill levels?
- Thread starter spindoctor9
- Start date
Banks
Banned
I considered myself a decent B when I made 7/9. I've only kept the 9 for about 1 1/2 years now. There are some people that have been rated an A before making 7/9 in APA. Keep in mind that these are also local/regional ratings. Many would consider a national A to be equivilent of a regional Master or something, or at least in our neck of the woods.
As far as the tournaments go, you can just buy into whatever rating group you want. You just can't play in a lower bracket, there's nothing stopping somebody from trying out the higher brackets.
People have different ways of playing and it can be tough to accurately assess a rating to somebody based on a closed group. I've seen Masters not do that well during a regular league session, then put it together for the tournaments and so on.
As far as the tournaments go, you can just buy into whatever rating group you want. You just can't play in a lower bracket, there's nothing stopping somebody from trying out the higher brackets.
People have different ways of playing and it can be tough to accurately assess a rating to somebody based on a closed group. I've seen Masters not do that well during a regular league session, then put it together for the tournaments and so on.
spindoctor9...They don't compare at all. In the first place, there are fewer beginners in BCAPL play. Second, you can have a team with all good players on it, which you cannot have in the APA. Plus, there are no handicaps in the BCAPL, at the national level. Local LO's can arbitrarily assign them if they want to, but the format dictates that everybody plays everybody one game...whereas APA format has one player playing another player an entire match (whatever that might be). The APA handicaps are the same locally as they are at the national level. I may be mistaken, but I think more BCAPL leagues operate without handicaps, than with...mostly due to there being no handicaps at nationals. Maybe Mark Griffin can elaborate. Join the league...get in there and play your best game...enjoy (quit worrying about handicaps)! Rinse and repeat! LOL
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Last edited:
So an A can be on a team with two masters? Or are there separate divisions for masters, A players, B players? I would really like to join BCA next season but only if I can play with two acquaintances who are masters.
scott , there is some comparison in my opinion, at the local level anyway.
i can only speak for my area though. bcapl 8 ball has a points based scoring system much like apa 9 ball. you do need a handicap system at the local level to determine the number of points required for your team to win the match.
i started a thread last year comparing the 2 formats.
i found out some very interesting facts in some replies in that thread.
1. as you stated in your post bcapl at the local level is an entirely different format than at the national level. thay is why i prefer the apa. you play exactly the same format at the local and national level.
2. in bcapl the local lo can run his league anyway he wants to without having to follow national bcapl rules. one poster said his local bcapl league used the apa format and rules.
back to the op's topic, handicaps. i find that most players around here that play both the apa and bcapl formats, their handicap is higher in bcapl than apa.
no we are not all sandbagging in apa, we are higher simply because of the open break rule in bcapl. 2 rules in bcapl makes it easier to win in bcapl than apa.
1. open after the break.
2. ball in hand anywhere on the table after a scratch on the break.
Banks
Banned
There are separate divisions only for the purpose of trying to keep Masters from taking off a tournament for A's and so on. There's no restriction on taking part in a tournament that's 'above' your rating. So, in short, yes, even a B could enter the Master division, but a Master can't enter the B.
Ok I get all that, but I'm talking regular weekly league. Are all levels of players put in one division, playing each other? Or does each level (master, A, B, C) get their own division and their own league night? Maybe I'm not wording this right because no one seems to get what I'm asking. I am not a Master, but would like to join a weekly team with two Masters. Is this possible? Or is Monday night Masters league night, Tuesday "A" night, Wednesday "B" night, and so on?
Last edited:
When I last played the APA (2 years ago), I would say that I was in the running for the worst SL-9 in the history of the APA. That being said, I think I had one really good opportunity at the BCAPL (fka BCA) Nationals to make it on the National BCAPL Masters List, but I would have had to gotten a bit of luck to get there. In other words, even at my best, I'm a bubble boy when it comes to the Nationa BCAPL Master List even though I was an APA SL-9 in 9ball.
Now, any local league might have what they consider a Masters League. I'm not really talking about that. Nor do I know if anything I just wrote made any sense to what you're asking. If you're a local APA SL-7 in 8-ball / SL-9 in 9-ball, then you' shouldn't have any worries about playing in a local BCA Masters League. The local Masters leagues are supposed to cater to local LEAGUE top guns.
Freddie <~~~ nonsensical
Last edited:
Banks
Banned
None of the BCA divisions that I've seen in the Portland area have separated the Masters out. There have been numerous all-Master teams at Sam's. There should be no problem with you being on a team with them. All of the players should be playing in the same division under the same rules.
Yes, you can do the weekly league play with any 3 players, Masters or not. Where do you plan on playing at? I started at 181 for a little bit, then moved over to Sam's a while later, now doing a stint at River Roadhouse to qualify with a few friends for a March team.
why don't you contact your local LO ask him, He should have the answer your looking for.
Ok thanks man that's exactly what I was looking for. I intend to play out of fortune star next season. Sam's is great I need to get out there.
Banks
Banned
He probably doesn't have the phone #, since he was asked by his friends.
No problem. I've got a few things to do(zoo & omsi w/ the g/f) this weekend, but if you want to get together and shoot a little, just let me know.
I'm in Montana for a couple weeks but yeah I'd like to shoot some sometime when I get back.
The BCAPL "master" status is an "earned" status you get by getting to a certain point in events. Most people who are on the masters list for the BCAPL are very strong players.
http://www.playbca.com/Leagues/AdvancedandMasterList.aspx
I see you are from Oregon.
There are 8 guys in your entire state that are considered "masters" by the BCAPL.
Mike Bromagen
Christopher Byers
Jeff Jones
Barney LaMontagne
Steven Lingelbach
David Randall
Thomas Rossi
and Lucas Thomas
Those are ALL of the current "masters" in your whole state according to the BCAPL.
You have one "grand master" in Mike Zimmerman.
Being a BCAPL master and playing in the local "masters" BCA league are very different thing. One is extremely hard to become and is objective and based on performance, the other is subjective and largely requires that you join the "masters" league and pay your weekly dues.
How does that compare to the APA system? Are there more then 8 people who are a "9" in your entire state? How to they play against the above people?
http://www.playbca.com/Leagues/AdvancedandMasterList.aspx
I see you are from Oregon.
There are 8 guys in your entire state that are considered "masters" by the BCAPL.
Mike Bromagen
Christopher Byers
Jeff Jones
Barney LaMontagne
Steven Lingelbach
David Randall
Thomas Rossi
and Lucas Thomas
Those are ALL of the current "masters" in your whole state according to the BCAPL.
You have one "grand master" in Mike Zimmerman.
Being a BCAPL master and playing in the local "masters" BCA league are very different thing. One is extremely hard to become and is objective and based on performance, the other is subjective and largely requires that you join the "masters" league and pay your weekly dues.
How does that compare to the APA system? Are there more then 8 people who are a "9" in your entire state? How to they play against the above people?
Banks
Banned
As far as I'm aware of, there is no "Master" BCA league in Oregon. There are plenty of 7/9's, many of which aren't even on the regional A list(some under 7/9 are, though). There's also a discrepancy between the regional and national list. To be rated nationally, you have to attend the national tournament and play well at that time. A few of those players may have their hands full with other locals that have never gone to Vegas, or just didn't do well while there. The night I played Luke's team of masters in weekly play, I didn't lose and played well, the next week I think I was like 3 for 5 against a team of APA 5s or something. Does that mean I'm a Master or an APA 4? Do regional ratings carry more weight since they're based on more regular play, either the weekly or the two yearly events.. I think they're even considering other events like the casino tour, too.
Between the differences in APA s/l ratings in areas, differences in BCA rankings and other things, the way some people on here say that some B players can put together 6-packs and so on, I'm not sure what to think of rankings any more.
Across the river, the BCA league I've been playing in restricts teams to one master per team. I think I remember the same applying to an in house league at Classic in Portland a few years ago. The rest of the players are A or B players. There are no handicaps or other rankings until you go to regionals, which has basically nothing to do with league play except qualifying by playing enough matches. I did note that the non-master player that scored the most points a few sessions ago got raised to an A ranking as a result of his high score. I took second place and was still ranked a B for the purpose of ranking for regionals.
The APA master's league here accepts players of any skill level with no handicaps.
The APA master's league here accepts players of any skill level with no handicaps.
There are 130 something masters and 13 grand masters listed on Western BCA's website. Those are just the men in OR WA.
Last edited:
Banks
Banned
Dang foreigners up there over the border..
Hope you're doing well, Bill. Would like to get together and play some again, I'm in a much better place now. I still think I owe you a pizza, too.
Yeah, there have been a few cases of players doing well in weekly league that got raised up to an A because they hadn't been to the coast before. Fortunately for me, I played like crap at the coast the last few times I went so I was still eligible to get my money back. Those raised players weren't too thrilled with all that. As I said before, it's rough, because somebody can have a good BCA session and get raised, while others that play the same don't get raised.
Just to add to the confusion or delusion, based on the various descriptions seen here:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html
i haven't met yet an SL-7 in APA 9-ball that I would consider anything much beyond a C+/B- player. That's a small sampling of players (leagues representing hundreds of pool players, but not thousands). That might be a couple of dozen SL-7's in 9-ball.
Last edited:
Banks
Banned
I completely agree. Heck, some of them I'd consider C or C- even. I've known an APA 5/8 that I could steamroll in 8b and one of my friends recently became a 4/7, but would have a pretty tough time getting into the money at the regional BCA B tournament.
I've known one 7/8 that wasn't moved up to a 7/9 until they became a regional Master. There are also a handful of 7/8(maybe one or two 6/8) players that made it to regional A status while I was still a B.
I posed the question here regarding rankings before I sent in my entry to the tournament. I was questioned about my B ranking as a 7/9 while I was at the coast. Nobody seems to have a clear idea of how to set a clear line, if there even is one.