How foul a foul?

D

denzilla171

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I was playing a game of 10-ball today and an odd situation came up. I had fouled on the 2 ball, so with ball in hand my opponent intentionally fouled by hitting the 6 ball to push it into the 2 ball, locking it up within a cluster of balls.

Now I had ball in hand, but there was no path to the 2 ball, not even space to put the cue ball on the table next to it. Obviously I was going to foul again.

Now I suppose I could have tried a smart foul, like tapping the 6 even tighter to the 2, but since that would put me on two fouls with an invitation for a third, why mess around? So I just dropped the cue ball on top of the whole mess and let the balls roll where they may.

As it turned out, the scattered balls made it a lot more difficult for my opponent to hook me a third time, but I could have just as easily got the same result by shooting the cue ball hard into the cluster. Probably a better result as I would have given myself some degree of control, but this was a casual game and I didn't really care all that much.

Anyways, my opponent didn't take too kindly to my ball drop approach, and I guess it could be viewed as an 'unsportsmanlike' solution, but it's only a guess. Obviously it's a foul, but how foul a foul?

What is the official ruling for a situation like this?
 
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IMHO you should have at least hit the balls with the cueball rather dropping it... I'd have been a little upset, even if a casual game. But I always try to play as if I'm playing like it mattered. So for me, definitely foul in a 'normal' way..

But different strokes for different folks right..
 
If you were going to foul , you should have done it with the cue and a legal shot.
There is also the option of jumping over the interfereing balls and hitting the locked in ball on top first!
I think grady was the first person to have that idea , [or at least , he made it a popular option}
 
WPA Rules

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.
 
It is a foul, obviously.

It is a dumb foul too because he should have the option to put the balls back since you moved them without shooting. Put them back and three foul you is what I would have done in his case. Shoot and break them open is what I would have done in your case.
 
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Patrick's post sums it up. It's unsportsmanlike conduct, what happens because of that is
up to the ref, since you were probably playing without one I would insist on loss of game.

gr. Dave
 
To do what you did IMO opens a broader discussion regarding your childhood and up bringing, or perhaps drug consumption issues, and I'm not kidding.

99.9 % of people wouldn't even think of that, let alone do it. You have a wire loose. You can't realize it because the very wire that is loose is preventing you from realizing it.

I hope telling you allows for motivation to seek a mental electrician.
 
I'd never play with you. You were in a tight situation. You will be in many tight situations in this game. We've all been victim of the three foul rule at one time or another. You should have manned up and played like a gentleman not a whining baby. Sorry for being harsh but I think you should allow the game to build your character or what's the sense of spending so much table time improving
 
A foul is a foul is a foul.
Did you, your opponent or both learn something from the situation? If yes, then your casual game was well worth it.
Expect the unexpected :thumbup:
 
Bella Don't Cry said:
A foul is a foul is a foul.
Did you, your opponent or both learn something from the situation? If yes, then your casual game was well worth it.
Expect the unexpected :thumbup:
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Well now ... that's not true. There are levels of fouls, levels which include loss of game from unsportsmanlike conduct fouls. maybe even forfeiture of an entire match.

Those fouls obviously carry a much harsher penalty than ball in hand. So a fouls isn't a foul, isn't a foul.

And if someone pulled that crap in my poolroom during a tournament instead of casual play, the penalty would include get the fk out and don't come back. Waddia think about that foul?
 
3andstop said:
Well now ... that's not true. There are levels of fouls, levels which include loss of game from unsportsmanlike conduct fouls. maybe even forfeiture of an entire match.

Those fouls obviously carry a much harsher penalty than ball in hand. So a fouls isn't a foul, isn't a foul.

And if someone pulled that crap in my poolroom during a tournament instead of casual play, the penalty would include get the fk out and don't come back. Waddia think about that foul?
Click to expand...

Bravo. And that's the way a good poolroom should run. Greenie for you sir.
 
3andstop said:
To do what you did IMO opens a broader discussion regarding your childhood and up bringing, or perhaps drug consumption issues, and I'm not kidding.

99.9 % of people wouldn't even think of that, let alone do it. You have a wire loose. You can't realize it because the very wire that is loose is preventing you from realizing it.

I hope telling you allows for motivation to seek a mental electrician.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's harsh. Maybe he just didn't know?

pj
chgo
 
3andstop said:
And if someone pulled that crap in my poolroom during a tournament instead of casual play, the penalty would include get the fk out and don't come back. Waddia think about that foul?
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Definitely sounds like a very thought out, rational, logical decision from a person with a perfect upbringing that doesn't have any wires loose upstairs or previous/current drug use. Which, by the way, I think is ludicrous that you mentioned it to the op in the first place.

AZB psychologist. Perfect!!
 
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3andstop said:
Well now ... that's not true. There are levels of fouls, levels which include loss of game from unsportsmanlike conduct fouls. maybe even forfeiture of an entire match.

Those fouls obviously carry a much harsher penalty than ball in hand. So a fouls isn't a foul, isn't a foul.

And if someone pulled that crap in my poolroom during a tournament instead of casual play, the penalty would include get the fk out and don't come back. Waddia think about that foul?
Click to expand...
After this discussion I think many of us now realize there are levels of fouls and this was more serious than the op originally thought (or didn't think).

As for kicking out a customer, maybe instead a teachable moment to someone who might not have the experience you do or, an opportunity to set some expectations for someone in a different situation.

But if you have enough customers to start picking them off one by one then my hat's off to you, you're obviously doing something right in your business and have one of the few rooms in the country in that situation.

Best to you
Tony C
 
3andstop said:
To do what you did IMO opens a broader discussion regarding your childhood and up bringing, or perhaps drug consumption issues, and I'm not kidding.

99.9 % of people wouldn't even think of that, let alone do it. You have a wire loose. You can't realize it because the very wire that is loose is preventing you from realizing it.

I hope telling you allows for motivation to seek a mental electrician.
Click to expand...

Overreact much?
Bet you're the kind of person running around talking about micro aggression and all that other crap, bet you think it's "ok" and "normal" for boys to be in girls locker rooms.
Please get help......soon
 
denzilla171 said:
I had fouled on the 2 ball, so with ball in hand my opponent intentionally fouled by hitting the 6 ball to push it into the 2 ball, locking it up within a cluster of balls.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, your opponent hit the 6 ball with the cue ball, and not his cue, right? Because if he hit the 6 with his cue stick it would be the same kind of unsportsmanlike intentional foul as yours (well not quite as bad but still loss of game, I believe).
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja9y8Lv_A1s

Perhaps Luong should have done what the OP did. Oh, wait....he didn't. Watch the rack, and see how pool is played properly.

The foul should have been loss of game. Period. Poor sportsmanship.
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Lol, I'm glad you posted this. I'm almost 100% certain that it was me the OP was playing yesterday because the same exact situation happened when I was shooting around on my lunch break. This video is where I got the idea for the hook from.

Some of the posts in this thread are a little over the top. It wasn't a money game, so I wasn't bothered too much. I think the OP realized it was just lazy pool playing after he did it. When I pointed it out that it might count as more than just a normal foul in any other setting than a casual game, he seemed to agree. I would have no problems playing the OP again for the record, he was a cool guy.
 
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