How Fractional Aiming Systems Help

PoolSharkAllen said:
You've just summarized why I prefer to use Dave's Aiming Method (DAM) over more complicated aiming systems like CTE/Pro1.

Aiming systems like CTE/Pro1 have generated dozens of threads and thousands of postings over the years. With everything that's been written about it, many people still don't understand how it works. You guys will be arguing over the nuances of CTE/Pro1 until the end of the world (which might come as soon as December 21, 2012, according to the Mayans ;) ).

DAM may not be the perfect aiming system but it does work extremely well and it is relatively easy to learn and use. IMO, I think we need to open some threads on DAM and get the word out there.
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Just so you know, the mayan calendar didn't account for leap year, which was introduced after their prophecy was generated. Once you add in all those extra days, every 4 years dating back to Caesar, the world should have ended some time last year.

Now then, I believe the world might REALLY end if we manage to keep this thread close to on-topic and strife-free... Thanks to pretty much everyone for trying to add to the discussion, as opposed to slinging the "stuff". I'm not a CTEer, but I'm learning a lot in general, due to trying to follow the conversation.
 
Stan to the Rescue please

I agree with the comment that CTE/Pro 1, needs some further explanation from the Master Stan Shuffet.
I am waiting for the next update to Pro 1.

Wish, I could afford to go take personal lessons from Stan.
I live on the West Coast.
Maybe I can schedule some lessons at the Derby.

Right now Paul N. who with Hal Houle worked together on CTE, is working with me.
It is a struggle to try to teach a old dog new tricks, but I am trying.

Hopefully by Derby time, I can get together with Stan and see how CTE has evolved, Barney
 
well if cookie shoots cte/pro1 he would know if you continue that set up across the table, adjustments have to be made. I think maybe he was not on the same page as you guys and was discussing something different? dunno
 
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BarneyCalip said:
I agree with the comment that CTE/Pro 1, needs some further explanation from the Master Stan Shuffet.
I am waiting for the next update to Pro 1.

Wish, I could afford to go take personal lessons from Stan.
I live on the West Coast.
Maybe I can schedule some lessons at the Derby.

Right now Paul N. who with Hal Houle worked together on CTE, is working with me.
It is a struggle to try to teach a old dog new tricks, but I am trying.

Hopefully by Derby time, I can get together with Stan and see how CTE has evolved, Barney
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so what are you stuck on, maybe i can help :)
 
champ2107 said:
well if cookie shoots cte/pro1 he would know if you continue that set up across the table, adjustments have to be made. I think maybe he was not on the same page as you guys and was discussing something different? dunno
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Champ please pm me the adjustments, I do shoot pro one.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Let's keep it real, OK? The final aim line is a "visual" and a "pivot" away, both of which the shooter defines without specific instructions from the system.
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The system defines the steps required to use effectively without conscious adjustment. You can only gain this knowledge by use of the system, not by simply watching a DVD or reading about it. We already know this, and now I'm just repeating it.

Patrick Johnson said:
There's nothing "arbitrary" about contact points; they're located directly opposite the pocket on the OB. Maybe you're one of those who can't "see" them, but that doesn't make them "arbitrary". You're using loaded terms again.
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Answered before, and here it is again. They are arbitrary in the sense that they are not objective targets when looking from behind the CB, and especially when far from the pocket. Yes I can see these points no different than you, and I can make them work. I used this system for 10+ years, I'm not unfamiliar with it. Switching to CTE changed everything from conscious contact point adjusting to lining up edges/centers, and pivoting to the center of the CB. Edges and centers, targets that are easily identifiable and objective.

Apart from all these pedantic arguments, the reality is that switching to CTE took a leap beyond any consistency I had previously using ghost-ball. I would not write articles about CTE or be here trying to help it if this were not the case. I have nothing to gain but the satisfaction of helping someone else with their game.
 
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scottjen26 said:
Funny. Some of these statements are just plain wrong or you clearly didn't understand the DVD:

- The obvious and non-obvious pivots were meant to show shots that are in the transition areas and how sometimes when one pivot doesn't look quite right the other will. It's very rare, and "obvious" if you play with the system for any length of time on the table. Maybe it could have been described differently, but the info is there for a reason

- Body turn is done when simulating a left pivot, no body turn when simulating a right pivot. Pretty "obvious" in the DVD

- Bridge length is only a concern when performing the manual version, if using Pro1 (as JoeyA says the "Bugatti" version of the system), you can use any bridge length. Mine is anywere from 10" - 12", longer on certain shots, and I have no issues, nor do I have issues when I have to shorten up or jack up over a ball

- The section on BHE was a brief intro showing that you should first pivot to center then pivot for the BHE, essentially letting people know not to shortcut the process. You have to adjust for english with this system like any other, whatever your preferred method

- The system DOES work for pretty much everything. I use it for all cut shots, to line up on the break (not always, but when it goes astray I do), and banks. I don't use it on kicks or combos, I think only a few examples are shown on the DVD but that is obviously not it's primary focus


I can nit pick almost any instructional DVD I've ever seen, and very rarely are they perfect. If Stan does a second version I know some additional things will be added based on feedback he's received. I've seen a few videos lately that have gotten great reviews and are masterfully produced but don't contain any useful information for decent players - to me, Stan's gave me (and others) the ability to learn CTE Pro 1 from the one who developed it without having to travel there to get a lesson. Between the DVD and all of the extra information I received from people here as well as Stan himself I certainly got enough to be able to understand and use the system fully.

Scott
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The DVD was not understandable as far as describing any deployable "system." There were far too many holes for anyone to go to the table and make it work. Those that have faith in the system tell those that can't get it to work any of the following: you didn't understand it; you didn't spend enough time with it; you didn't spend X number of weeks/months trying (sincerely) to make it work; you didn't want it to work; or (my favorite) you didn't come to the system with an open mind.

The only way it works is "if you play with the system" and let yourself fill in the blanks about body turns, pivots, bridge lengths, elevation, speed, english, throw, and squirt. And it wasn't just me -- lots of folks flat out wanted their money back.

And so, here we still are. If the DVD was understandable, these threads wouldn't run to dozens of pages and hundreds of posts with people still trying to figure it out.

Lou Figueroa
 
Atlarge

Atlarge, sorry to not have answered your question.

Paul, just went through heart surgery and is just now getting back on his feet.
I have got him into playing every Monday.
He is enjoying the game again after retiring.

When he is ready I will bring him on board.
He is a BCA certified instructor but that was many moons ago.

If all goes well, I will get him to go to the Derby.

Take Care, Barney
 
Champ thanks !!!!!

Champ, :smile:

Thanks for the offer too help.

Being a newbie to CTE, it is causing me heartache after playing for 40 years.
Paul is being patient with me and that is what keeps me motivated to learn.

I would eventually like to see what CTE Pro1 is like.

But first, I need to learn how to crawl from Paul.
Take Care, Barney
 
lfigueroa said:
Lou Figueroa
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please do not feed this troll..he is here only to spread bs! Lou Figawhatever we all know you disliked the dvd before you even bought it! you made sure everyone new that when it came out and plastered every aiming thread and "created a thread of should i or shouldnt I make a review of cte/pro1?" then you went a head and made one like its one big joke to you!
 
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Lou says lots of folks flat out wanted their money back.
Not true Lou! Maybe 2 or so out of a 1000 plus orders the first year.
That would be well less than 1%.
With steady sells since January ZERO PERCENT have wanted their money.
Just wanted to clear up your misrepresentation.
Stan
 
lfigueroa said:
The DVD was not understandable as far as describing any deployable "system." There were far too many holes for anyone to go to the table and make it work. Those that have faith in the system tell those that can't get it to work any of the following: you didn't understand it; you didn't spend enough time with it; you didn't spend X number of weeks/months trying (sincerely) to make it work; you didn't want it to work; or (my favorite) you didn't come to the system with an open mind.

The only way it works is "if you play with the system" and let yourself fill in the blanks about body turns, pivots, bridge lengths, elevation, speed, english, throw, and squirt. And it wasn't just me -- lots of folks flat out wanted their money back.

And so, here we still are. If the DVD was understandable, these threads wouldn't run to dozens of pages and hundreds of posts with people still trying to figure it out.

Lou Figueroa
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Lou, when so many "get it", and use it very successfully, and you can't understand it, then it isn't the material not working, it's you not understanding it.

And, you know exactly why these threads are long, and it has little to do with people not understanding it that have actually done what it says to do on the DVD.
 
stan shuffett said:
Lou says lots of folks flat out wanted their money back.
Not true Lou! Maybe 2 or so out of a 1000 plus orders the first year.
That would be well less than 1%.
With steady sells since January ZERO PERCENT have wanted their money.
Just wanted to clear up your misrepresentation.
Stan
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There were many more than two. Several put their copies up for sale, almost immediately. In addition, anyone familiar with PR stats knows that the percentage of those asking for a flat out refund only represent a fraction of those actually dissatisfied with the product -- that's why they offer a "money back guarantee" on late night TV infomercials.

And, if it was only one or two, why did you refuse to give them their money back?

Nowadays, that the word is out, people know what they're buying, as opposed to how you advertised it, back then :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Neil said:
Lou, when so many "get it", and use it very successfully, and you can't understand it, then it isn't the material not working, it's you not understanding it.

And, you know exactly why these threads are long, and it has little to do with people not understanding it that have actually done what it says to do on the DVD.
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I have no clue what you're talking about.

At least one side is trying to alert people that the system stuff is not all it's cracked up to be.

Buyer beware.

Lou Figueroa
 
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