Scott,
There are others who have used CTE/Pro1 to great delight but they have remained silent so far and may choose to remain silent. I'm glad that you have spoken about your own personal journey and I'm glad you are having good success with it.
How Fractional Aiming Systems Help
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
Scott,
There are others who have used CTE/Pro1 to great delight but they have remained silent so far and may choose to remain silent. I'm glad that you have spoken about your own personal journey and I'm glad you are having good success with it.
JB, I'm flattered that you opted to take me off your Ignore list.
I personally don't care what aiming system someone decides to use. But I do care when forum bullies like you engage in ad hominem attacks on other posters, call them names and insult them. You seem to have forgotten that just two weeks ago, in another thread about leather, in just one posting you called a very prominent poster an idiot, stupid and a dog. Why you haven't been tossed by now is beyond comprehension.
Have a nice day.
It's because the people who run this place can see beyond you and your clique's personal stalking agenda.
You wish I were a bully. That would fit right into my opinion of your character and what I believe you wish to do to me in real life.
JB, You're confused. What really matters is not your opinion of my character but rather, Wilson's opinion of your character:
"My opinion is that despite what you have to offer the forum, the burden of having to put up with your ego, the boat rocking, the inability to coexist with people whom you consider trolls...etc..etc..etc...out weighs the positive.
You really do under estimate how many people dislike the personna you present.
Even if you're "staying focused", your manner is so distasteful, I want nothing to do with it."
You really do under estimate how many people dislike the personna you present.
Even if you're "staying focused", your manner is so distasteful, I want nothing to do with it."
Yes, I am sure Dave gets quite tired of my fan club whining to him every couple of days. Must be a sad life for you and your little club to be following my posts looking for any little thing to report me for. I suppose I should be flattered that you devote so much of your life to mine.
So yes, in Dave's view it can be quite a burden dealing with the fallout of crybaby stalkers, not calling you one specifically lest you feel the urge to report me, just that in the past there have been such people who whine and cry to the mods when they can't "get me" other wise.
I wouldn't want to be in Dave's position and have to deal with it either. Now darling, can I call you that since we are so close, what does any of this have to do with aiming? I know you want to deepen the relationship but do you have anything that is actually on-topic at all?
I will give you a tip: Align your center to my edge and pivot to center and stroke. Imagine the visual and you will be on the right track to achieve your goal with me in virtual space at least.
zombie93
Registered
A bit off topic but, champ the sound of your hit is akin to a predator shaft. Is that what you are using?
Anyway, I guess what's hard in cte for me is knowing what is the correct aim point as in A B or C. I am just learning it however. For some shots this is obvious. When I do choose correctly, the shot is dead center pocket almost every time.
Anyway, I guess what's hard in cte for me is knowing what is the correct aim point as in A B or C. I am just learning it however. For some shots this is obvious. When I do choose correctly, the shot is dead center pocket almost every time.
I and others have summarized the aim points in other threads for people to try and help out, since otherwise you have to shoot reference shots and learn by experience.
There is a simple progression, just like with 90/90 and other similar approaches. There must be something to that, how the alignments break down past a certain point and you have to shift to the next "notch" in the system, where everything picks up again.
For CTE/Pro1, it's basically:
Straight or thick (< 14 or 15 degrees, or 3/4 ball thickness) - A/C, outside pivot
Normal cut (15 - 30 degrees, or 1/2 ball thickness)) - A/C, inside pivot
Thin cut (30 - 48 degrees, or 1/4 ball thickness) - B, inside pivot
Very thin cut (< 1/4 ball thickness) - 1/8, inside pivot
There are some small transition areas in between the normal, thin, and very thin zones where you might need to pivot the other direction as the "normal" pivot won't quite make the ball, but those shots are rare and something you recognize over time when the resulting aim line just doesn't look right. For 99%+ of the shots though, the choice of aim line and pivot is pretty obvious with just a bit of experience at the table.
Scott
There is a simple progression, just like with 90/90 and other similar approaches. There must be something to that, how the alignments break down past a certain point and you have to shift to the next "notch" in the system, where everything picks up again.
For CTE/Pro1, it's basically:
Straight or thick (< 14 or 15 degrees, or 3/4 ball thickness) - A/C, outside pivot
Normal cut (15 - 30 degrees, or 1/2 ball thickness)) - A/C, inside pivot
Thin cut (30 - 48 degrees, or 1/4 ball thickness) - B, inside pivot
Very thin cut (< 1/4 ball thickness) - 1/8, inside pivot
There are some small transition areas in between the normal, thin, and very thin zones where you might need to pivot the other direction as the "normal" pivot won't quite make the ball, but those shots are rare and something you recognize over time when the resulting aim line just doesn't look right. For 99%+ of the shots though, the choice of aim line and pivot is pretty obvious with just a bit of experience at the table.
Scott
Well this may be the root of many of the arguments. To me, feel is a conscious act of adjustment. If feel is subconscious then sure, we as humans make small adjustment all the time that we are not even aware of.
Agree wholeheartedly. There is so much going on with our visual/physical connection in all activities that I wouldn't consider any of that to be feel. I would consider feel as a conscious act of adjustment exactly as you describe, very well put.
Scott
If there's a conscious act of adjustment, I'd say feel (the subconscious) is what tells us when we get the adjustment right.
By the way, if feel is a conscious act of adjustment, how is that different from CTE's pivot?
pj
chgo
During the pivot the only conscious acts are lining up edges and centers of balls. With a system like ghost-ball, you are lining up to invisible contact points, invisible balls, or invisible lines. That is really the difference. Both systems are effective, but CTE is more objective.
Stan,
I agree with you 100% that aiming is a "visual task."
However, I disagree with you that "math can surface" some day to end these debates. "Math" cannot describe a "visual task" that involves so much judgement, perception, and experience-based intuition. Now, "math" and simple reasoning can be used to explain how CTE can work for a wide range of shots. Four possible approaches for appropriate "physical actions" are listed, described, and illustrated here:
Regardless of the "math," "aiming systems" like CTE can be useful and do have benefits for some people. I think the best thing about CTE/Pro-One is that it encourages a methodical and consistent pre-shot routine that can provide a framework for helping someone develop their "visual intelligence" and "experience-based intuition" for aiming. I hope people don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly think psychology is a more appropriate science than math or geometry to explain this process.
BTW, you deserve a lot of credit for putting out your DVD. Before then, there was so much confusion, misinformation, and "exaggerated marketing claims" about CTE and its many versions. I am not aware of any book or DVD, besides yours, that described and/or demonstrates CTE. I think your DVD was very necessary to better define an official version of CTE so it can be discussed more intelligently than has been the case in the past. Good work.
Best regards,
Dave
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You're ignoring the other big (bigger?) difference. Ghost ball's harder-to-see alignment defines the exact final aim line for you (if you get it right), whereas CTE's easier-to-see starting alignment defines an alignment that's easier to get right but is only near the final aim line.
Some players are better than others at "seeing" ghost ball's "landmarks" accurately, so the tradeoff of less visible landmarks for a more "finished" aim line is probably best for them (contact point aimers like myself are in this category too). Other players are not as good at seeing landmarks that require some estimation, so the tradeoff of more visible landmarks for a less "finished" aim line can be best for them.
pj
chgo
P.S. And, by the way, CTE's landmarks aren't all that different in terms of "visibility". Points A and C, between the edges and center of the OB, are "estimated" landmarks too.
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Right, and the final aim line is a pivot to center CB away.
Agree, CTE may not be for everyone. I think that has been clear.
I consider a 1/4 ball similar to an "edge" as it is still a very identifiable landmark, as opposed to arbitrarily positioned contact points (and 1/2 ball pivot doesn't use them anyways.) Also as the shots get thinner and longer, ghost-ball aiming requires progressively harder estimations. In my experience with CTE the use of centers and edges for alignment eases the difficulty of all shots, especially these thinner ones.
that cue is a meucci with a ob classic shaft that's 30 inches long and a 12.5 diameter with a onyx tip and just keep shooting it will come to you.
For your 3 shots, a and b use one reference line, c uses another. No other changes are necessary to pocket all 3 balls. Pivots are left to right, bridges the same.
You can use the same reference for all three shots or use a different reference for all three shots and still pocket all three shots ... assuming you put your bridge hand down in the right place for each shot (and/or deform/shift the bridge hand during the pivot the necessary amount if the initial bridge hand placement isn't perfect). With solid "visual intelligence," proper "physical actions," and enough practice, CTE will work for every shot at the table.
Regards,
Dave
I put my bridge where comfortable. I don't deform my bridge. You need to stop trying to make it seem like cte is hard to do. Its a visual system. And no, you don't use the same reference for all three shots.