How Fractional Aiming Systems Help
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
Banks
Banned
That's all they've been asking for. Describe exactly what the steps are and how they work. I don't think you've bothered to read a single post of yours lately and think to yourself, "Can this apply to me?"
And maybe leave the attitude at home. Almost every post of yours in this involves insulting people, just as you did several times in that paragraph. I'm sure you'll have something to respond with, though.
Stan said it himself that the system was designed for many things that are not directly involved in aiming(but indirectly). He also said that it takes practice and experience - if that doesn't involve "feel", I don't know what does.
If you're telling me that a system, which is designed with PSRs, can compensate, without ANY feel, for every situation(table speed, tip, deflection, ball cleanliness, pocket type, felt, etc etc), then I'd rather just put you on ignore like Champ and deal with people that would rather have meaningful discussions about how things actually work and know that ideas, not insults, will be put out there.
It may minimize variables, but it would be nearly impossible(if not impossible) to eliminate them completely.
You see, this is the point. Neil, you are too personally invested in winning the argument, as opposed to working within the parameters the thread was following in the beginning. I realize the history you have with the subject, and with the other main participants, but to dismiss all the good discussion we had through the first 38 pages is short-sighted, and indicates to me that you aren't interested in trying to get along. At least where CTE is concerned. And that's too bad, because you always have good insight to share.
I am addressing this reply to you, Neil, but it could be directed to any of several posters involved in the thread. The subject invokes so much passion amoungst you (and has for years) that you all spend too much time fighting with each other, and not enough effort trying to make progress in understanding how to better explain the content.
In this post, you dismiss any of us who have been interested in the discussion as being "dumb", simply because we examine those concepts. I don't appreciate it, and it makes you seem to be that which annoys you very much....it is indeed troll-like behavior. You are better than that, and making broad statements like that doesn't help your "cause", at all. I've learned an awful lot from you in my time here, Neil, and I thank you for that again. That is why you have disappointed me in this thread. (The same is true of a couple of your antagonists, as well.)
I guess I'm just gonna sit here being "dumb", Neil. Hopefully you get some of this anger out of your system. I look forward to reading you here again, in a different thread.
Back to the original post.
The fractional aiming can also be used in conjunction with Shane's side of the ferrule aiming to bisect the angles above.
Imagine if one can also aim with the the fractions between the center of the cue and the side of the ferrule...powerful.
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Good grief, Neil. Justadub made some very astute observations about your posting behavior. I thought his post was right on the money. The trickle-down question of his post was basically this -- why so much anger over this very topic?
You seem lock-jawed on the "gahdammit, why can't you guys understand this is a center pocket system, because we tell you so -- you don't need to know the details why, you only need to buy the DVD and take it to the table" thing. Everything is "get the DVD, get the DVD," "center pocket system," "you're making a mountain out of a mole hill -- the pivot is no biggie," etc. And, the Neil we *used* to know, which was the guy that did the "What would you do here?" threads -- which a lot of us thought were fantastic -- is now threatening to not do them anymore, with the attitude that, because some of the readership won't buy into the blindly buying the DVD thing, that you're going to punish *everyone* by not posting anything not related to CTE either. You're one of the most helpful people here, yet you're threatening to pull the plug on all your involvement for this one, very specific thing, that has been going on for over 15 years.
What's the deal, Neil? Some of the readership won't buy a ticket for the CTE train, and instead want to discuss it on a discussion board. Big whoopie. Why is that anything off of your back? What's your oh-so-invested interest in all this, that you're willing to abandon AZB completely, a veritable "all or nothing" approach, just because one very specific topic -- CTE -- isn't being bought lock, stock, and barrel by "everyone"?
I mean, think about this. I wish you can step outside yourself, shake it off, and read some of the stuff you've been posting lately. Really, Neil? I mean, REALLY?
You may lambaste me about this, but based on what I shared with you above, I won't be surprised if you do. And it would be a shame, too, because all I'm doing is trying to hold up a mirror so you can see yourself.
Summary: some people have demonstrated they don't buy into pivot-based aiming systems, or have an issue with some of the claims or terminology used by its advocates. Big friggin' whoopie. As with any superior method or technology, if you really believed in it, just keep it for yourself and walk away -- feeling secure with the notion that the fools are the ones bashing it without having tried it. Think about it. I hope you can see the big picture. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is worth getting your tightie-whities in such a knot over.
-Sean <-- owns the DVD, btw.
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zombie93
Registered
I've been falling back on ferrule aiming when I get frustrated with CTE, but I really need to revisit Shane's techniques. Having a smaller ferrule doesn't seem to help either. The shot that I practice the most, and seem to have the most trouble with is the 49deg angle cut. For me it truly is the hardest shot in CTE. I guess I long for consistency with CTE. I know that almost every shot can be made while using it, but like I said earlier I'm just starting so it can only get easier I guess?
Great post, and very true. I don't see how any aiming system can be perfect unless every person had their head and eyes as everyone else. Your visual perception changes when your head is in a different place
Fractional aiming augmented by side of the ferrule aiming is parsimonious (cogent) and easy to master. :thumbup:
I was gonna let this die, but after re-reading it, I suppose i owe you an answer to your question... no, I haven't bought the DVD. Yet.
Guess what? I haven't bought Banking With the Beard, or Joe Tuckers Racking Secrets, or VEPS, or any of the dozens of other worthy DVD's yet, either. Not from a lack of desire to see them, but because I simply cannot afford to do so right at this time.
That having been said, I'm not here in hopes that someone will "give me all the secrets for free"... despite the fact that you, Spidey, JB and others have been trying to give CTE away for free until Stan's DVD came out. No, I don't want you to do that, and yes, I hope that Stan is wildly successful with it. (In all honesty, I hope he makes anything from it, what with how things are these days...I admire him for making the attempt, and also for tolerating those who would treat him with less than due respect on these forums.)
I read this thread (and most every thread here that tries to help people learn about pool) because I am interested in the subject, and am trying to learn anything from it, be it directly related to the subject at hand, or indirectly furthering my pool education base. I find it in poor taste to be accused of wishing to "steal" this information by participating in a thread here, when many, many other aspects of pool are dissected. Despite someone having a DVD out on the subject.
If we apply your attitude about this, I guess we cannot discuss banking lest The Beard or Brumback be "stolen" from. Or racking, because Joe Tucker has what is considered the definitive work on the subject. No, any of us can discuss these subjects here, applying our own analysis and speculation on any of these subjects, as well as CTE. So long as someone isn't openly going through the production and laying it all out here verbatim, there is no theft occurring. Certainly not in the manner to which this thread was conducted, through the first 38 pages or so.
I understand how passionate you are about this. I also understand how much at odds you and Patrick are. I think the latter is influencing the former, in this case, but that's one "dumb" mans opinion. Patrick hasn't always conducted himself in an admirable manner in the past, but I think he has done a good job in this thread, and I was hoping that some of his historical adversaries (and allies, as well) might also try to maintain a respectful exchange. Obviously that didn't happen.
It's also obvious that you aren't interested in allowing anyone to have an opinion different than yours in regards to CTE, either we buy the DVD (as Sean points out) and do it that way, or its wrong, dammit! Funny, the methods you folks were all talking about before the DVD weren't wrong at that point in time, were they? Forgive this "dumb" reader, but if I recall my readings correctly from prior CTE threads, Stans Pro1 system isn't "exactly" the way you folks have been describing it for all this time. So why must you jump up and down and stomp your feet that if it isn't Stan's way, it's wrong and useless to even discuss? Again, I am not knocking Stan or his work in any way, and hope some day to be able to spend proper time with it for myself.
And if it will make you happy, I can try to knock the "other guys" who also add to the dissension here. You seem to feel that it's only "your side" that gets attacked here... You and Spidey and JB certainly take your fair share of shots, and also your share of abuse as well. Lou especially seems to fire back at all of you, and I've made my displeasure about that known many times in the past. (He is another person who I love to read here, most of the time. It's guys like him, and you, that frustrate me the most, because you guys have so much to offer, and you get so caught up in winning the argument that your message gets lost. I believe you are both far better than this pettiness.)
If you were paying attention at all in this thread, there were more of us trying to keep things on an even keel than either "side" in this goofy civil war of yours. Because that's all this is, the Hatfields and the McCoys. Fighting just to fight, having long since forgotten why.
zombie93
Registered
Yup, I guess I really never tried to play with it too much. I think I've been focusing way too much on shots I can make with CTE; what I need to do is find its limits, and stretch them to my advantage.
Neil,
I want to officially add my name to the long list of people who think your attitude is way out of line in this thread. I'm sorry you think others and I are trying to "trash" CTE/Pro-One. You obviously think CTE/Pro-One is "really good." I certainly think it offers some benefits, but I don't think it as much of a "silver bullet" as you and a few others seem to claim. And I have provided many explanations and illustrations explaining why. I have also put in a lot of effort identifying and publicizing all of the benefits CTE/Pro-One offers.
Regardless, I think it is inappropriate (and wrong) for you to claim I am attempting to "trash" CTE/Pro-One. I have simply expressed my unbiased opinion and backed it up by reasonable explanations and illustrations. I have also done so free from personal or emotional attachments, endorsements, or alliances. It doesn't seem like this is the case for any of the CTE/Pro-One proponents and marketers.
Regards,
Dave
PS: I, like others, have enjoyed and benefited from your participation on AZB. You usually have excellent judgement and good insight. IMO, that has not been the case in this and other "aiming system" threads.
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Banks
Banned
Lucky you, Neil, I now have internet at home. :thumbup:
I do not deny that I was highly skeptical of CTE. From a basic perspective, it doesn't exactly jive with how most players go about learning and playing the game. Line up an edge and pivot? Those don't make much sense to a regular Joe.
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, as long as I can tell the difference. Mike and company were nice enough(they've probably dealt with much worse) to give me a 6 month break to be a spectator. During that time, I had no choice but to read the arguments and sit back. I took in the idea of approaching the cut angle and stepping into the shot, which was beneficial.
As far as what I had mentioned, after all of the reading I still cannot grasp the idea that with so many variables, that it results in a center pocket shot with everything and that systematic adjustments can account for anything that needs to be done with either the shot and/or the cue ball.
Again, Stan said that experience and less than HAMB will result in a better usage of the system. That alone says that feel is a necessary evil, or else one would just pick up a stick, know the system and shoot away. To me, the final answer is that his work helps to minimize the feel aspect. Is that so bad? To me, that's still successful. That's what the stick-sighting method does, that's what any successful method should do. Some people do things differently and this is no exception. If it helps out more people on average than the other systems, good for it and good for Stan.
Unfortunately, this topic deteriorates into a slap-fight, where the participants look like fools. I normally take your postings seriously, as do I many others in this thread. With this topic, though, many things are taken so seriously and blown so out of proportion that it almost becomes a joke.. a sad joke. There are, of course, exceptions to what we all believe and I can say without a doubt that I don't agree with the protagonists or antagonists in all aspects of the game(I think leagues are great, for example).
I could say more, but that pretty much sums it up. Your main sour point is the fury with which you defend CTE, as is the problem with many of its detractors. After so much negativity, it is easier to simply cut it out of the curriculum and focus on the rest. AZB still has tons of great information, some of it older, some of it newer, but this has been the squeaky wheel as of late.
Have a good evening, all. I'm off to the bar to knock a few back and hit some balls. :smile:
Hm,
somehow strange- til now there very very very rare ppl, where would use *the ignore funcion*- this has been til now just one *special hero*
No matter in which discussion it was- cte, pro-1, fractional systems or WHATEVER-- it s was in most cases interesting. And i think til now i had nice relationships, friendships (or however you may call it from knowing through internet, skype etc) ......i had wonderful and USEFUL discussions with each side- the pro-fraction as with the contra-fraction.
We are all human-- and everybody should touch his own nose- and think a bit about it if it s necessary to get so sadly aggressive.
you all have the same hobby, sport, passion.
I had also one time here where i got really upset about something (at least nothing worth, really not). 2 great guys brought me down, told me to overthink etc- i still say thx to them (huhu Steve J. and Scott L.
)
both sides pray (usualy) there IS NO HOLY GRAIL-- and you know what?
BOTH ARE RIGHT!
have all a great weekend,
shoot balls- not people
Ingo
somehow strange- til now there very very very rare ppl, where would use *the ignore funcion*- this has been til now just one *special hero*
No matter in which discussion it was- cte, pro-1, fractional systems or WHATEVER-- it s was in most cases interesting. And i think til now i had nice relationships, friendships (or however you may call it from knowing through internet, skype etc) ......i had wonderful and USEFUL discussions with each side- the pro-fraction as with the contra-fraction.
We are all human-- and everybody should touch his own nose- and think a bit about it if it s necessary to get so sadly aggressive.
you all have the same hobby, sport, passion.
I had also one time here where i got really upset about something (at least nothing worth, really not). 2 great guys brought me down, told me to overthink etc- i still say thx to them (huhu Steve J. and Scott L.
)both sides pray (usualy) there IS NO HOLY GRAIL-- and you know what?
BOTH ARE RIGHT!
have all a great weekend,
shoot balls- not people
Ingo