How good are you?

CaptainJR said:
Very smart!
As I said, 'I'll be bold and say 5 on the string'. I'm thinking Johnny's going to read this and say to himself 'Oh, boy!' I'm not condemning anyone. I just think that there are a lot of folks saying 4 here that would be in big trouble. Nothing wrong with confidence though.

I just know that how good you are can be deceiving. For example, I play in a non-handicapped 8-ball league of about 300 shooters. I the individual standings I ended up the season #2 with a .779 average. Makes me feel pretty good, but then I go to my teachers play and play one pocket and win one our of 30 games. I go to a pool hall and lose to two particular guys all the time playing straight up. These two are good mind you, but they are not Johnny Archer. Maybe I'll change my answer to 6.



Seriously, I've made these games and played them. The top amateurs need a world of weight. Asking for a couple of games or the 8-ball are the type of things another world-class player would ask from Johnny Archer. Strictly talking games on the wire, you need to be able to run out the set so whatever the game is, it has to be within that range. My best is 5 racks. Johnny's is 13. I think 8 on the wire going to 13 is fine for me.

There will be days when a game like that will look ridiculous for him but I can assure you, there will be as many days where it will look ridiculous for me.
 
lol. ther is no spot he can give that i would play him with and expect to win. until or if ever i get to his level then i would play him even up. for example ginky and franki will throw the 5 and out at any A level player in nyc and usually win. but i heard they asked yang for a couple of balls when he was here a couple of years ago. and when stalev was here i dont think he got any action either.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Seriously, I've made these games and played them. The top amateurs need a world of weight. Asking for a couple of games or the 8-ball are the type of things another world-class player would ask from Johnny Archer. Strictly talking games on the wire, you need to be able to run out the set so whatever the game is, it has to be within that range. My best is 5 racks. Johnny's is 13. I think 8 on the wire going to 13 is fine for me.

There will be days when a game like that will look ridiculous for him but I can assure you, there will be as many days where it will look ridiculous for me.


Great point Jude and one I hadn't thought of. I have run 3 racks one time in my life so a 9-3 race would still be in his favor. Think he'd play me for a buck a game :)
 
DDKoop said:
Great point Jude and one I hadn't thought of. I have run 3 racks one time in my life so a 9-3 race would still be in his favor. Think he'd play me for a buck a game :)



Johnny doesn't play as fast as he used to so I doubt it but I'm certain Marcus Chamat will give you that game.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Johnny doesn't play as fast as he used to so I doubt it but I'm certain Marcus Chamat will give you that game.

3000 to nothing in under an hour :D
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Seriously, I've made these games and played them. The top amateurs need a world of weight. Asking for a couple of games or the 8-ball are the type of things another world-class player would ask from Johnny Archer. Strictly talking games on the wire, you need to be able to run out the set so whatever the game is, it has to be within that range. My best is 5 racks. Johnny's is 13. I think 8 on the wire going to 13 is fine for me.

There will be days when a game like that will look ridiculous for him but I can assure you, there will be as many days where it will look ridiculous for me.

Yeah, my best is 3 racks and then screwed the pooch on the 8-ball in that 4th rack and didn't get out. I can occasionally put two racks together, usually I get through one and end up having to duck or I sell out. So, if I were playing him a race to 9, I would need 6 games on the wire to theoretically have a chance to win. That wouldn't be enough though, because I seldom play at a speed where I'm capable of stringing 3.

The only reason I was using APA ratings is because that's something that most everyone is familiar with and should be able to accurately assess their skills against the average player for each APA level, even if they aren't an APA player. It's very difficult for me to assess my own skills as an A,B,C,or D player because to me, those ratings are even more ambiguous than APA skill levels.

I'll tell you one thing right off the bat that an APA 9-ball player would have problems with in a game like that....APA 9-ball players play for points. In "real" 9-ball the only ball that counts is the money ball. In that respect, sometimes I think the APA sort of does a disservice to it's 9-ball players. There's really a different strategy for playing for the money ball as opposed to playing for points. A runout is a runout, but APA players except for 8s and 9s don't really run out a lot, so if one player pockets the 1 thru 8 and the opponent pockets the 9, the one that made the 1 thru 8 actually won the rack even though the other guy potted the 9. The only thing you win with the 9-ball is the break and an extra point. Playing APA rules, I'd rather let the other guy have the 9-ball every time if I can get the other 8. That's not real 9-ball and I've seen people lose matches playing real 9-ball because of the simple fact that the 9-ball didn't seem to bear as much importance to them mentally as pocketing the rest of the balls. They chop all the wood and then let the other guy build the fire.
 
GeraldG said:
Yeah, my best is 3 racks and then screwed the pooch on the 8-ball in that 4th rack and didn't get out. I can occasionally put two racks together, usually I get through one and end up having to duck or I sell out. So, if I were playing him a race to 9, I would need 6 games on the wire to theoretically have a chance to win. That wouldn't be enough though, because I seldom play at a speed where I'm capable of stringing 3.

The only reason I was using APA ratings is because that's something that most everyone is familiar with and should be able to accurately assess their skills against the average player for each APA level, even if they aren't an APA player. It's very difficult for me to assess my own skills as an A,B,C,or D player because to me, those ratings are even more ambiguous than APA skill levels.

I'll tell you one thing right off the bat that an APA 9-ball player would have problems with in a game like that....APA 9-ball players play for points. In "real" 9-ball the only ball that counts is the money ball. In that respect, sometimes I think the APA sort of does a disservice to it's 9-ball players. There's really a different strategy for playing for the money ball as opposed to playing for points. A runout is a runout, but APA players except for 8s and 9s don't really run out a lot, so if one player pockets the 1 thru 8 and the opponent pockets the 9, the one that made the 1 thru 8 actually won the rack even though the other guy potted the 9. The only thing you win with the 9-ball is the break and an extra point. Playing APA rules, I'd rather let the other guy have the 9-ball every time if I can get the other 8. That's not real 9-ball and I've seen people lose matches playing real 9-ball because of the simple fact that the 9-ball didn't seem to bear as much importance to them mentally as pocketing the rest of the balls. They chop all the wood and then let the other guy build the fire.



Regarding APA 9-ball, you're right. You're absolutely right. It isn't 9-ball. I mean, it looks like 9-ball but the moment you change the scoring format, it becomes something else. I don't play in the APA anymore but if I did, I think I'd only stick to 8-ball since it's still actually 8-ball.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Regarding APA 9-ball, you're right. You're absolutely right. It isn't 9-ball. I mean, it looks like 9-ball but the moment you change the scoring format, it becomes something else. I don't play in the APA anymore but if I did, I think I'd only stick to 8-ball since it's still actually 8-ball.

Even the 8-ball isn't actually 8-ball... I think in real 8-ball you have to call your shots...
 
GeraldG said:
I'll tell you one thing right off the bat that an APA 9-ball player would have problems with in a game like that....APA 9-ball players play for points. In "real" 9-ball the only ball that counts is the money ball. In that respect, sometimes I think the APA sort of does a disservice to it's 9-ball players. There's really a different strategy for playing for the money ball as opposed to playing for points. A runout is a runout, but APA players except for 8s and 9s don't really run out a lot, so if one player pockets the 1 thru 8 and the opponent pockets the 9, the one that made the 1 thru 8 actually won the rack even though the other guy potted the 9. The only thing you win with the 9-ball is the break and an extra point. Playing APA rules, I'd rather let the other guy have the 9-ball every time if I can get the other 8. That's not real 9-ball and I've seen people lose matches playing real 9-ball because of the simple fact that the 9-ball didn't seem to bear as much importance to them mentally as pocketing the rest of the balls. They chop all the wood and then let the other guy build the fire.

I didn't know this. I'm not an APA enthusiast and this new to me information really has me rolling on the floor. I guess its ok for those into it, but you can't call it 9-ball. Maybe call it '9/15th rotation or something.

Sorry, Just couldn't help myself
 
The Hamster said:
Even the 8-ball isn't actually 8-ball... I think in real 8-ball you have to call your shots...


I hear ya but actually, the slop-rule changes it for both good and bad. When I played in the APA, there were as many instances where I slopped something in on a safe than when I slopped something in while attempting to pocket. Only a handful of top players in the APA region I'm from really took advantage of the slop rule on an absurd level. Had it been a call-shot league, the safety play would have gone through the roof with all the ball-pocket safeties.
 
I'd need a lot...would love to play a couple games with him though. Somebody posted "If you and Johnny split games 90-10, you don't even have a snow-balls chance in hell." I agree with that.
rayjay :cool:
 
I don't know how you guys play...Unless you are all A players or better games on the wire won't put a dent in Archers winning....The only time you will shoot you are either safe or have a monster...I have a low B to B game and I am going to ask for the moon...Then I am going to ask myself Self if this guy is going to give you all this weight....Your all done before the coin flip :( .....4 or 5 and out puts way more pressure on a shooter
 
I would play ANYONE with........

I would play Johnny or ANYONE with the Breaks and Ball In Hand, 9-Ball, Race to 9.

TY & GL
 
If you can beat the Ghost, you gotta like this spot! Even if you don't beat the Ghost you gotta like it because you always start with control of the game.


OldHasBeen said:
I would play Johnny or ANYONE with the Breaks and Ball In Hand, 9-Ball, Race to 9.

TY & GL
 
i would ask for a wild 1 and the break. :D

but seriously, id probably play him even just for the experience.
 
OldHasBeen said:
I would play Johnny or ANYONE with the Breaks and Ball In Hand, 9-Ball, Race to 9.

TY & GL

Maybe the ghost was a better way to ask this then the elaborate staged event I used. I play the ghost with ball in hand after the break pretty much even so yeah I would take that all day because no matter how good a safety is the ghost ALWAYS wins and there are alot of breaks where offense at certain key points is not the best play.
 
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