How important is the hop on Shane's break?

(((Satori))) said:
Here Shane puts on a breaking clinic. Notice how the cueball reacts. Notice how the top 3 balls react. Awesome stuff.
https://youtu.be/e3YSOu_ew4M
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Here are some stats on that match (based on Pool-Trax data at the time), won by Shane 50 - 21.

Breaker made at least one ball and did not foul:
• Shane Van Boening -- 88% (43 of 49)
• Nikos Ekonomopoulos -- 45% (10 of 22)

Breaker won game:
• SVB -- 73% (36 of 49)
• NE -- 36% (8 of 22)

Break-and-run games:
• SVB -- 53% (26 of 49) ... one 5-pack, one 4-pack, two 3-packs, three 2-packs, and five singles
• NE -- 18% (4 of 22) ... one 2-pack and two singles

Run-outs on successful breaks:
• SVB -- 60% (26 of 43)
• NE -- 40% (4 of 10)

Balls on the break:
• SVB -- average 1.7 ... dry 3 times (including 1 foul), one ball 18 times (including 2 fouls), two balls 20 times (including 1 foul), three balls 7 times, and five balls once
• NE -- average 0.6 ... dry 12 times, one ball 8 times, two balls once, and three balls once
 
ElCorazonFrio said:
Actually it's both.
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Agreed.

Damn I hate people who think that just because it is definitely one thing it can't also be something else. So many factors come into these things that to dismiss one offhand is to show ignorance.
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But the negativity about it just distracts from your factual message (and probably doesn't make you feel any better).

pj
chgo
 
Check out this break shot from the Carom Room

svb hop break.JPG
 
Nice screen shot. It's amazing how the 10 is sitting there, and the other balls are spreading out from it almost equally.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Give me a good reason to want it to.

pj
chgo
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actually it s very simple. they hit CB maybe half tip above center with power. CB hops and go backwards, and after that little forward spin takes and CB stops(or go slightly forward) on the center of the table.

if breaker (good one with enough power) miss first ball slihgtly, CB hops, go below middle pocket, bounce from the rail, then forward motion kiks in and send CB on the center of the table.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Agreed.


But the negativity about it just distracts from your factual message (and probably doesn't make you feel any better).

pj
chgo
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Agree on both :)

Terry Griffiths, ex snooker world champ used to do a lot of jump shots into a basket with a hole just over a ball's width and about 4 inches high as part of regular trick shot shows.

He would place his own layer of cloth under the CB and say it was to protect the table, but shared in interviews that the extra cloth gave the CB considerably more bounce for these trick shots.

I sometimes get caught out on new cloths on E8B tables which is quite thick, which creates more bounce on the break shots, which can send the CB off the table. Luckily the cloths are very slick when new and the pockets slide balls in, so a hard break is less important.
 
peter_gunn said:
actually it s very simple. they hit CB maybe half tip above center with power. CB hops and go backwards, and after that little forward spin takes and CB stops(or go slightly forward) on the center of the table.

if breaker (good one with enough power) miss first ball slihgtly, CB hops, go below middle pocket, bounce from the rail, then forward motion kiks in and send CB on the center of the table.
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Except the CB doesn't have to hop to do those things.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Except the CB doesn't have to hop to do those things.

pj
chgo
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Are you sure about that? If the cue ball is not in the air, the follow would almost certainly take much earlier and make the cue ball track towards the side pockets as opposed to the rail (on a sufficiently off center hit). If it is possible to do without hop, it surely is much more difficult to control.
 
Masayoshi said:
Are you sure about that? If the cue ball is not in the air, the follow would almost certainly take much earlier and make the cue ball track towards the side pockets as opposed to the rail (on a sufficiently off center hit). If it is possible to do without hop, it surely is much more difficult to control.
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Good point.

My observation in a Question to all.Shane's break is best in 10-ball when he is hitting the cue ball with topspin.Is there a gear effect that enables the one ball to move a bit cleaner when leaving the rack and tracking to the corner?
 
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DAVE_M said:
The pop is caused by the cue ball being airborne when it strikes the head ball. Making sure that you hit the head ball square is extremely important. Due to the head rail, everyone is hitting the cue ball, at a downward angle, on the break. Shane just so happens to have practiced his break till it's become second nature.
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Thats what he replies here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7T1mVGy-gNo

I ask about technical references....
 
(((Satori))) said:
Listen to what he says in that interview.

"When you hit too much on top of the one ball you get too much spin, it just depends on where you hit the one ball."


I think he is definitely looking to hop into the one ball at a certain angle.

https://youtu.be/7T1mVGy-gNo?t=219
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Some tables to making a ball need to put counter for that. Using quite a lot low english to make those balls behind 1 ball.. But then it the angle of jump is harder to get consistent IMO.
 
May I suggest a reason the hop may be advantageous, which I don't think has been mentioned so far.

When breaking at around the speed of SVB, if the CB remains flat and gets no hop back, it is harder to keep the CB around center table than when a hop is applied.

To play the shot with no spin or some back spin often ends with the CB near the rail at the breaking end.

When playing with a little follow, if the CB stays in contact with the cloth, the follow grips earlier and tends to pull the CB toward the rack end of the table.

The hop allows the CB to reach around the center of the table with momentum moving backward before the follow takes and tends to hold the CB in that area.

It's a little like how golfers play to get one bounce forward before backspin takes and kills momentum, rather than it gripping very close to where the golf ball lands on the green and spinning back quite uncontrollably.

Regarding scratching in the center pocket, I feel like I do it equally often with and without the hop when trying to keep center table position.

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
May I suggest a reason the hop may be advantageous, which I don't think has been mentioned so far.

When breaking at around the speed of SVB, if the CB remains flat and gets no hop back, it is harder to keep the CB around center table than when a hop is applied.

To play the shot with no spin or some back spin often ends with the CB near the rail at the breaking end.

When playing with a little follow, if the CB stays in contact with the cloth, the follow grips earlier and tends to pull the CB toward the rack end of the table.

The hop allows the CB to reach around the center of the table with momentum moving backward before the follow takes and tends to hold the CB in that area.

It's a little like how golfers play to get one bounce forward before backspin takes and kills momentum, rather than it gripping very close to where the golf ball lands on the green and spinning back quite uncontrollably.

Regarding scratching in the center pocket, I feel like I do it equally often with and without the hop when trying to keep center table position.

Colin
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When I break 10 or 8 ball I try to get CB backwards at least 1 diamond below center of the table, sometimes 2. That way is difficult to scratch in the middle

Sent from my PAP4055DUO using Tapatalk
 
peter_gunn said:
When I break 10 or 8 ball I try to get CB backwards at least 1 diamond below center of the table, sometimes 2. That way is difficult to scratch in the middle

Sent from my PAP4055DUO using Tapatalk
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I agree, a big smash when hit near center 1 ball that comes past the center takes the scratch in the middle out of the equation mostly, but a few hairs off and the CB bounces off the table. Hitting straight is crucial when entering the high 20mph zone.
 
I am fairly certain that the hop is a byproduct of the speed and natural small angle of the cue with the table and is thus not intended, but expected. I might be wrong, gotta ask Shane himself I guess!
 
SamLambert said:
I am fairly certain that the hop is a byproduct of the speed and natural small angle of the cue with the table and is thus not intended, but expected. I might be wrong, gotta ask Shane himself I guess!
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Ask him if the same results could be obtained without the hop. I know the answer already but I'd rather hear it from the Master.

JoeyA
 
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