How long can you hide your pool game speed?

"real money"

naji said:
Sure i know, but not for love making it is for some $$$, "ironman"
said, i quote "I doubt anyone is talking about real money here!" i questioned that!!
Click to expand...


Ironman is a wise old pool dog and I mean that in the best way. I suspect that what he meant by "real money" was large bets. There is another kind of real money though, that made by a lot of grinding and small bets while moving around a lot. I loved hitting balls so long hours playing pool certainly wasn't any pain. While most road players played for a lot more money than I did in a year's time I'd be very doubtful that many had more net at the end of the year.

Make the cue ball your best friend and you can win a lot just from getting good rolls while the other player gets bad rolls fairly often when you miss.

LnL, you are the original poster in this thread so I'll make a suggestion to you. Keep up with your wins and losses for two or three months, all of them on paper. Also keep up with how many days/nights you go to the pool hall during that time. You should be able to figure out if you would net more money long term by staying in action for smallish stakes or playing the harder to get into higher stakes games for much tighter spots.

Competing at pool for sport is one thing and something I thoroughly enjoy. "Gambling" at pool for profit is a whole nuther deal and giving the other player a sporting chance isn't a goal. A quote I thought was from Kipling but I haven't found goes something like this, "If a man being young and foolish wishes to gamble for golden sheckles take him my son for he was meant to be taken." Seems harsh but when all is said and done other than the few that see it as the price of admission to play someone, everyone gambles hoping to profit. If they didn't think they could take your money they wouldn't play. All but the most casual gambling is a dog eat dog world.

Recreational gamblers keep the numbers vague so they can kid themselves about a few wins. Serious gamblers always know the hard numbers of how they are doing and they take the paths that result in the most profit long term.

Despite the oft proclaimed notion that you have to gamble to become a top player, too much focus on gambling can impede your progress I believe. Young players have to choose what they really want from pool.

Hu
 
Hu, that was very well said. Thank you.

ShootingArts said:
Ironman is a wise old pool dog and I mean that in the best way. I suspect that what he meant by "real money" was large bets. There is another kind of real money though, that made by a lot of grinding and small bets while moving around a lot. I loved hitting balls so long hours playing pool certainly wasn't any pain. While most road players played for a lot more money than I did in a year's time I'd be very doubtful that many had more net at the end of the year.

Make the cue ball your best friend and you can win a lot just from getting good rolls while the other player gets bad rolls fairly often when you miss.

LnL, you are the original poster in this thread so I'll make a suggestion to you. Keep up with your wins and losses for two or three months, all of them on paper. Also keep up with how many days/nights you go to the pool hall during that time. You should be able to figure out if you would net more money long term by staying in action for smallish stakes or playing the harder to get into higher stakes games for much tighter spots.

Competing at pool for sport is one thing and something I thoroughly enjoy. "Gambling" at pool for profit is a whole nuther deal and giving the other player a sporting chance isn't a goal. A quote I thought was from Kipling but I haven't found goes something like this, "If a man being young and foolish wishes to gamble for golden sheckles take him my son for he was meant to be taken." Seems harsh but when all is said and done other than the few that see it as the price of admission to play someone, everyone gambles hoping to profit. If they didn't think they could take your money they wouldn't play. All but the most casual gambling is a dog eat dog world.

Recreational gamblers keep the numbers vague so they can kid themselves about a few wins. Serious gamblers always know the hard numbers of how they are doing and they take the paths that result in the most profit long term.

Despite the oft proclaimed notion that you have to gamble to become a top player, too much focus on gambling can impede your progress I believe. Young players have to choose what they really want from pool.

Hu
Click to expand...

What makes people not want to play you? I wonder about that sometime! Thanks again, my friend. You put it just right....
Regards,
Lock n Load.
 
Lock N Load said:
What makes people not want to play you? I wonder about that sometime! Thanks again, my friend. You put it just right....
Regards,
Lock n Load.
Click to expand...

When they no longer think they can win money from you. They are only playing you because they think they have some sort of edge.

Great insight ShootingArts! Wise and honest information for our younger peers who have not learned the lessons life has taught you.

That said...

Play to win! Promote the game! In the end we would all make more profit as more advertisers would be putting more money into a "real sport" than they would a game for hustlers.
 
Good input, Okie.

Okie said:
When they no longer think they can win money from you. They are only playing you because they think they have some sort of edge.

Great insight ShootingArts! Wise and honest information for our younger peers who have not learned the lessons life has taught you.

That said...

Play to win! Promote the game! In the end we would all make more profit as more advertisers would be putting more money into a "real sport" than they would a game for hustlers.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
If you hide too long, eventually you've got nothing to hide.

...caught a few 'players' when I was a kid....they had 'names' but they
had been in too much soft action.
 
for most, make it fun

Lock N Load said:
What makes people not want to play you? I wonder about that sometime! Thanks again, my friend. You put it just right....
Regards,
Lock n Load.
Click to expand...

To keep playing most people the best thing is to be sure they enjoy playing with you even if they lose a little. As mentioned most aren't counting too close so "a little" is very relative especially over time. Being friendly and laughing at your mistakes instead of showing annoyance goes a long way towards keeping people playing you. Generally speaking if you seem to be having fun they will enjoy playing with you.

Serious students of the game like JoeyA are always glad to play another serious student as I'm sure you know.

The above applies for small to medium stakes play. Nothing in the world except ever bigger spots will keep the real gamblers playing you. At some point many gamblers won't play you even if you offer them the moon. They have lost all they are going to lose to you and have cut their losses and quit trying you. You have gotten into their pocket and their pride and they are done. None of the small time all around gamblers in town would play pool with me when I gambled daily. They were always trying to get me in a card or dice game though!

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Ironman is a wise old pool dog and I mean that in the best way. I suspect that what he meant by "real money" was large bets. There is another kind of real money though, that made by a lot of grinding and small bets while moving around a lot. I loved hitting balls so long hours playing pool certainly wasn't any pain. While most road players played for a lot more money than I did in a year's time I'd be very doubtful that many had more net at the end of the year.

Make the cue ball your best friend and you can win a lot just from getting good rolls while the other player gets bad rolls fairly often when you miss.

LnL, you are the original poster in this thread so I'll make a suggestion to you. Keep up with your wins and losses for two or three months, all of them on paper. Also keep up with how many days/nights you go to the pool hall during that time. You should be able to figure out if you would net more money long term by staying in action for smallish stakes or playing the harder to get into higher stakes games for much tighter spots.

Competing at pool for sport is one thing and something I thoroughly enjoy. "Gambling" at pool for profit is a whole nuther deal and giving the other player a sporting chance isn't a goal. A quote I thought was from Kipling but I haven't found goes something like this, "If a man being young and foolish wishes to gamble for golden sheckles take him my son for he was meant to be taken." Seems harsh but when all is said and done other than the few that see it as the price of admission to play someone, everyone gambles hoping to profit. If they didn't think they could take your money they wouldn't play. All but the most casual gambling is a dog eat dog world.

Recreational gamblers keep the numbers vague so they can kid themselves about a few wins. Serious gamblers always know the hard numbers of how they are doing and they take the paths that result in the most profit long term.

Despite the oft proclaimed notion that you have to gamble to become a top player, too much focus on gambling can impede your progress I believe. Young players have to choose what they really want from pool.

Hu
Click to expand...

Very insightful. Most of the gamblers I know, are probably better described as born losers. Next time you watch the movie "The Hustler" focus on a seen where George C. Scott is talking to Paul Newman about being a born loser. Finding anyway to lose even feeling sorry for himself.

Most gamblers I know have an edge at one thing and win. Then they do something where they don't have an edge and lose all their winnings.

Steven
 
Its been my experience, most players hide their true speed most of their lives. And, they usually hide it from themselves. Most players overvalue their true abilities.

I on the other hand have no illusions about my ability, I play bad.

Steven
 
Hello PT, how goes it?

pt109 said:
If you hide too long, eventually you've got nothing to hide.

...caught a few 'players' when I was a kid....they had 'names' but they
had been in too much soft action.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your input! Hope your Holiday were nice for you!
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
I tried to get a game at Buffalo's last night.

ShootingArts said:
To keep playing most people the best thing is to be sure they enjoy playing with you even if they lose a little. As mentioned most aren't counting too close so "a little" is very relative especially over time. Being friendly and laughing at your mistakes instead of showing annoyance goes a long way towards keeping people playing you. Generally speaking if you seem to be having fun they will enjoy playing with you.

Serious students of the game like JoeyA are always glad to play another serious student as I'm sure you know.

The above applies for small to medium stakes play. Nothing in the world except ever bigger spots will keep the real gamblers playing you. At some point many gamblers won't play you even if you offer them the moon. They have lost all they are going to lose to you and have cut their losses and quit trying you. You have gotten into their pocket and their pride and they are done. None of the small time all around gamblers in town would play pool with me when I gambled daily. They were always trying to get me in a card or dice game though!

Hu
Click to expand...

It did not happen. So I give up. I play by myself or watch the rest of them play each other. So much for that thought!
Thanks Hu.
Regards,
Lock n Load.
 
I'll bet you do play bad!

Gmanpoke said:
Its been my experience, most players hide their true speed most of their lives. And, they usually hide it from themselves. Most players overvalue their true abilities.

I on the other hand have no illusions about my ability, I play bad.

Steven
Click to expand...

But I do not believe that at all. COME ON NOW! I bet you have to give up spots to everybody!! Thanks for your response.
Regards,
Lock n Load.
 
bayou billiards?

Lock N Load said:
It did not happen. So I give up. I play by myself or watch the rest of them play each other. So much for that thought!
Thanks Hu.
Regards,
Lock n Load.
Click to expand...

May have to take a ride to big BR and try Mike Black and some of those guys. Last I knew he was making games with anyone. Slide over to Lafayette from there, down to New Iberia, and through Houma on the way home. Should be a nice little loop. If that doesn't work maybe a gulf coast run over to the east would work. I'm hearing there is a guy that is begging anyone to play for a Bob. He lost his awhile back.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
May have to take a ride to big BR and try Mike Black and some of those guys. Last I knew he was making games with anyone. Slide over to Lafayette from there, down to New Iberia, and through Houma on the way home. Should be a nice little loop. If that doesn't work maybe a gulf coast run over to the east would work. I'm hearing there is a guy that is begging anyone to play for a Bob. He lost his awhile back.

Hu
Click to expand...

I think I remember that 'Bob' story....by Smorg?
..post the link, Hu...it's a good one
 
Bobless Jim

pt109 said:
I think I remember that 'Bob' story....by Smorg?
..post the link, Hu...it's a good one
Click to expand...

I had enough trouble finding the story I decided to repost it before it got lost too deeply to be found. Here is a, probably the classic story from Smorg. He was the kind of person that funny things happened to and around. I have known a few like that, my old partner Bobby was the same. The smallest thing I did with Bobby often turned into an epic, even life threatening, adventure. Anyway, here is the story from Smorg. Because of who Smorg was every word may be gospel, every word a myth, or somewhere in between. That was part of Smorg's mystique, we never really knew who he was or which of his many persona was really him if any was. Maybe they all were?

(Tampa Tubby Bob)
(*<~ It was on my way home from New Orleans two weeks ago ...... <insert flashback music here> I stopped at my brother's workplace and was talked into spending two days at Spring Break assisting the young girls in their wet T-shirt competitions and bikini contests. Man, I've still got it and so do they.

Anyway, that brother lives ON THE BEACH (about 100' to the surf) of the Gulf of Mexico in a beautiful 3 bedroom home with ALL the amenities (I'd like to swap places with him- including significant other). He lives just east of Panama City in a little beach community called St. Joe Beach. There is a place there (within crawling distance of the house) called "Regan's Pub & Oyster Bar" Est. Nov.14th 2000 157,920 Oyster's Shucked (when the t-shirt was printed).

After a hard day of rubbing up against nubile young things in Panama City we ended up at Regan's depleting their oyster stock and keeping the 'shucker' employed. The bar area had a 4x8 pooltable and the proximity to the beach and the breeze had it in the lower 50?. I had on my Planet 9-Ball jacket with the BIG logo of a planet that looks like a 9-ball (duh).

All the locals wanted to challenge my brother and I to some partners 8-ball and we obliged. We won every game for hours, no matter what rules they made up along the way. We stopped to take a break and eat MORE oysters and one of the players asked me what I 'did' in Tampa. I told him that I was a professional pool player (my brother almost blew an oyster out of his nose).

This fellow named Jim-Bob wanted to play me heads up. I told him that I'd play, but I wouldn't play cheap. He told me that he didn't care WHAT we played for as he racked the balls and I prepared to break. I'd told him that I was called Tampa Tubby and as I smashed the balls I exclaimed that I was playing him for his 'Bob'. At first, he thought that I was kidding, but as it dawned on him that I was serious he became VERY nervous. All activity stopped in the building as EVERYONE came to sweat this game. The most serious game to ever take place in St. Joe Beach,Fl.

I got down to the eightball and Jim-Bob said that I had to 'bank it' AND we were also playing last pocket 8-ball. I'd made my last ball in the side pocket and was in trouble with the way his balls were laying on the table. When I asked if I could play the eight off of one of his balls and he said yes, I kicked the eight from near the end rail and off his ball into 'my' side pocket. GAME OVER. I'd won 'the Bob'. Everyone laughed and cheered while now calling me "Tampa Tubby-Bob".

At the same time,everyone now called Jim-Bob simply JIM. Jim was divestated. It was sinking in that he had lost his 'Bob' and he didn't like it one little bit. People were now calling him 'Bobless' and his boss (who was present) threatened to fire him and make him 'Jobless Bobless'. He's been 'Bobbited'. He wanted a re-match. I said NO. I told him that I would return in exactly one year and play him ONE GAME and give him an opportunity to win his 'Bob' back.

I've spoken to my brother a few times since I've left St. Joe Beach and he assures me NO ONE has called him Jim-Bob since he lost and that the word has spread up & down the beach. They're planning a big 'special day' for next year and my return. I'm thinking about breaking out my sling,walker, eye-patch, etc. to make it REALLY exciting. I know that I dance to beat of a different drum (at least I didn't insist that he throw in a moon pie), but everyone seems to like it (so far). I didn't get a BOP on the nose. Life is good. Does it get any better than this?

He really did show up at a pool get together wearing eye-patch, arm in sling, removable cast on his leg, and using a walker. Seems he was supposed to gamble with someone that only knew him on the internet and he was looking to get a nice handicap!

Doug had a thousand more stories and nobody loved life or enjoyed making his own fun more than he did. He will be missed for years to come.

Hu
 
Very good story, Hu.

ShootingArts said:
I had enough trouble finding the story I decided to repost it before it got lost too deeply to be found. Here is a, probably the classic story from Smorg. He was the kind of person that funny things happened to and around. I have known a few like that, my old partner Bobby was the same. The smallest thing I did with Bobby often turned into an epic, even life threatening, adventure. Anyway, here is the story from Smorg. Because of who Smorg was every word may be gospel, every word a myth, or somewhere in between. That was part of Smorg's mystique, we never really knew who he was or which of his many persona was really him if any was. Maybe they all were?

(Tampa Tubby Bob)
(*<~ It was on my way home from New Orleans two weeks ago ...... <insert flashback music here> I stopped at my brother's workplace and was talked into spending two days at Spring Break assisting the young girls in their wet T-shirt competitions and bikini contests. Man, I've still got it and so do they.

Anyway, that brother lives ON THE BEACH (about 100' to the surf) of the Gulf of Mexico in a beautiful 3 bedroom home with ALL the amenities (I'd like to swap places with him- including significant other). He lives just east of Panama City in a little beach community called St. Joe Beach. There is a place there (within crawling distance of the house) called "Regan's Pub & Oyster Bar" Est. Nov.14th 2000 157,920 Oyster's Shucked (when the t-shirt was printed).

After a hard day of rubbing up against nubile young things in Panama City we ended up at Regan's depleting their oyster stock and keeping the 'shucker' employed. The bar area had a 4x8 pooltable and the proximity to the beach and the breeze had it in the lower 50?. I had on my Planet 9-Ball jacket with the BIG logo of a planet that looks like a 9-ball (duh).

All the locals wanted to challenge my brother and I to some partners 8-ball and we obliged. We won every game for hours, no matter what rules they made up along the way. We stopped to take a break and eat MORE oysters and one of the players asked me what I 'did' in Tampa. I told him that I was a professional pool player (my brother almost blew an oyster out of his nose).

This fellow named Jim-Bob wanted to play me heads up. I told him that I'd play, but I wouldn't play cheap. He told me that he didn't care WHAT we played for as he racked the balls and I prepared to break. I'd told him that I was called Tampa Tubby and as I smashed the balls I exclaimed that I was playing him for his 'Bob'. At first, he thought that I was kidding, but as it dawned on him that I was serious he became VERY nervous. All activity stopped in the building as EVERYONE came to sweat this game. The most serious game to ever take place in St. Joe Beach,Fl.

I got down to the eightball and Jim-Bob said that I had to 'bank it' AND we were also playing last pocket 8-ball. I'd made my last ball in the side pocket and was in trouble with the way his balls were laying on the table. When I asked if I could play the eight off of one of his balls and he said yes, I kicked the eight from near the end rail and off his ball into 'my' side pocket. GAME OVER. I'd won 'the Bob'. Everyone laughed and cheered while now calling me "Tampa Tubby-Bob".

At the same time,everyone now called Jim-Bob simply JIM. Jim was divestated. It was sinking in that he had lost his 'Bob' and he didn't like it one little bit. People were now calling him 'Bobless' and his boss (who was present) threatened to fire him and make him 'Jobless Bobless'. He's been 'Bobbited'. He wanted a re-match. I said NO. I told him that I would return in exactly one year and play him ONE GAME and give him an opportunity to win his 'Bob' back.

I've spoken to my brother a few times since I've left St. Joe Beach and he assures me NO ONE has called him Jim-Bob since he lost and that the word has spread up & down the beach. They're planning a big 'special day' for next year and my return. I'm thinking about breaking out my sling,walker, eye-patch, etc. to make it REALLY exciting. I know that I dance to beat of a different drum (at least I didn't insist that he throw in a moon pie), but everyone seems to like it (so far). I didn't get a BOP on the nose. Life is good. Does it get any better than this?

He really did show up at a pool get together wearing eye-patch, arm in sling, removable cast on his leg, and using a walker. Seems he was supposed to gamble with someone that only knew him on the internet and he was looking to get a nice handicap!

Doug had a thousand more stories and nobody loved life or enjoyed making his own fun more than he did. He will be missed for years to come.

Hu
Click to expand...

You have excitement in your life like Jay H. On the coast of Cal! I like that story.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Thanx for the 'Bob' story, Hu.....that's the one I remember.

Smorg really brought something to this forum.
If the 'Bob' story was considered a rough draft and developed and
lengthened....it would make an excellent 'O Henry' type story.
I can see why the AZ oldtimers miss him.
 
just a quote

Lock N Load said:
You have excitement in your life like Jay H. On the coast of Cal! I like that story.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
Click to expand...

That is just Smorg's story cut and pasted. Probably nobody on the forum knew Smorg better than JoeyA as a real life friend. He would be the man to really tell you about Smorg if he felt like talking.

The blue text was mine and as I mentioned, my pool playing partner Bobby S could get maybe more "stuff" stirred than Smorg. He lived in a rural area and it was about a hundred and fifty foot walk to his mailbox. Bobby could get in more trouble just checking his mail than most people could in three months of dedicated effort! We partnered up playing pool for less than six months total time over a couple different periods.

During that time we were in the middle of a couple of cuttings, a few times when guns came out including having a semi-auto deer rifle pointed at my chest from less than arm's length with the owner's finger curled on the trigger, and assorted other violence that didn't involve weapons other than house cues, pool balls, chairs, and stools, maybe a stray table or two. The biggest deal was that Bobby tended to forget he was married when he was on the road and his wife had his 30-30 and knew how to use it. When I brought him home for a visit now and then I'd kill the engine and coast past his house letting him out in front of some nearby woods. I was always careful to be pointed towards the highway too!

Once somebody had dimed us and his wife knew where we were "entertaining" one night only fifty or seventy-five miles from his home. She headed that way, only a flat tire and no spare kept her from showing up at the door with the 30-30. She had came within a half inch of killing him with his .38 one of the very few times he didn't deserve it. After pliers wouldn't do the job he had to go to the emergency room to get eight or ten inch splinters pulled and dug out of his rib cage, she hit the trim around the front door as he jumped out. I suspected that Carol wouldn't be too picky who all she shot if she started shooting so the next time Bobby wanted to hit the road for awhile I told him the truth, I was pretty busy at my shop. I could have gotten away, just didn't seem healthy. Speaking of healthy, I have always had a healthy respect for the ability of really angry women to shoot a firearm! They tend to jam it towards whatever they are annoyed at and empty it. Seems like it usually gets the job done.

We did make quite a bit of money relatively speaking. It is a lot easier to make money gambling if two people are working together than by yourself. You could stir up action rambling around with a partner. I do suggest either a partner that isn't married or one that doesn't forget he is! :D After Bobby I just partnered up with people for a short time here and there or gave muscle a cut to watch my back while I was shooting. The muscle couldn't play pool very well but the littlest one was 6'-5" and about 250 pounds, an oilfield roughneck.

Hu
 
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