How Many Aiming Systems...

Straightpool_99 said:
They are related but different.
I can merely point my cue at the ball I'm about to shoot at like I would point a stick at a word on a blackboard. You can then say I'm aiming at the ball. But since my body is not oriented in the proper position behind the cue, there is no consistent way to deliver it to it's target. Alignment is the process by which your body positionend around the cue, so that the stroke can deliver the cue on the chosen target line.
It is my belief that for many veteran (but bad) players, their strokes are fine but their alignments are inconsistent. The stroke is repeatable, but the body is pointing slightly differently each time, yielding inconsistent results, even if the "pointing" (or aiming) was actually correct and the stroke suffiecently good to theoretically make the ball.
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That's a pretty darn good posting, mister.
You are right on the money, so I have found.
Alignment and Aiming must be congruent for the aiming method I use to work to the max. (and they are definitely two different parts of the preshot routine)
Stan Shuffett has said that in his upcoming Truth Series and in his long awaited new book that he will address and solve all concerns about how to align properly for the system to perform as it should.
Having never had personal instructions from Stan and having only studied his youtube videos about the placement of the feet for correct alignment, I am somewhat of a blunderer when it comes to that aspect of using the method. (I was also a blunderer when learning to see and use the perceptions...primarily due to many decades of "just seeing the shot" or "estimating".)
Even though I did see an immediate improvement in my game, that huge improvement is not enough to satisfy my discriminating tastes for excellence.
I know for sure that if I get aligned correctly and aim according to the CTE instructions, no makeable shot can give me trouble...for very long.
If the alignment is a slight bit off, due to carelessness, loafing, excitement, or whatever....it reflects into the aiming and the shot can be pooched.
:thumbup:
 
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denwhit said:
Zero for me. I used to look into them but don't anymore. My pool teacher shows me I can hit the size of a piece of chalk when I aim at it. Most of us don't even aim at the different sections of the pocket as he does. Every lesson, he shows me what a difference of the cue ball angle depending on how we hit the pocket thick or thin or in the middle. Too much information for most pool players though as I've found out posting that on AZB. You've got to see it before anyone argues about it.
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Yes. You can definitely over think it. Thanks.

Lou Figueroa
 
denwhit said:
Not just "rotation" games. He is a master at 8 ball and 14:1. But, no matter what we say, pool players just do not NEED a teacher, unlike golfers, tennis pros, and just about everyone else (funny to write that).. ha
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Pool players may not NEED a teacher, but most can certainly use one. If they're not running out over and over when left with an open table then a teacher is in order.
I just like to spend my time, money, and feeble brain, with a teacher who has been there under fire and can walk the walk instead of being a mere phoney blowhard at a chalkboard.
It sounds like your teacher meets those standards of excellence.
I know mine (Stan Shuffett) does.
Good for you.
Maybe you can give me a nice little handicap in some cheap 8-Ball...just "for fun" at say, a modest $35 a game? I can find a way to come visit you. That's not a problem for me.
I just need a little more training and we can have at it.
Stay in touch. I like to play pool...and I'm pretty good at haggling out a suitable wager.
:)
 
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MattPoland said:
Out of curiosity if someone asked you for advice on aiming, would you just focus exclusively on their fundamentals (stance, stillness, stroke, etc.)? Or is there any wisdom you’d be able to articulate in words about how you arrive to the point that you see the shot or what it looks like from your perspective?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If the query were about aiming I'd do a sanity check and try and establish how much they knew of the fundamentals and probably use ghost ball as a reference point. Then I might explain things like the effects of english, maybe squirt, and swerve, and throw, and CIT.

But most certainly, I'd try and iron out, as much as I could, their approach to the table, emphasize how important a consistent PSR is, with the philosophy that once they got that right, hitting the shot with accuracy would follow.

Lou Figueroa
 
Straightpool_99 said:
What do you mean "...hit the size of a piece of chalk.."? You do mean with the object ball, right? If you're talking about the cueball, that's laughably inaccurate! Even if it's an object ball, distance would have to be mentioned as well, both between the cueball and object ball and the object ball and the target as well. I'd venture to say that you'd not make a lot of combinations (other than through luck) with accuracy of that calibre.

I know no one will do this, but here is a test that you can do to see how accurate you really are (modelled on an Efren Reyes shot). Start with the cueball behind the head string and try to clip a ball at the other end of the table, close to the rail as thinly as possible, so that it only moves a couple of inches,while the cueball comes all the way back down. Once that becomes easy, try hitting it even thinner...

If you practise this shot for a while, you'll learn why most people that shill aiming systems, as well as those who critique them are full of bs.
Here are the cliff notes for those that are "too busy" to try:
1. No aiming system will show you exact and repeatable steps on how to do this shot, cold and straight out of your chair. If you are talking about a snooker table or similar and you are diagonal to the nap, it's pretty much all subconscious adjustments.
2. This shot does come up
3. You'll notice that with practise you'll get better and better to the point that your success rate will increase hugely (if you are a competent player). This proves that the stroke is plenty good enough, once you have the alignment dialed in. That is the whole key point to understand. It also proves that aiming is almost secondary on this shot. You'll "feel" it more than you see it. The trick is to get the body in the position where the stroke can do it's job. This also explains why it is so difficult to do it perfectly on the first try. You are more or less "walking" the shots in, like you would shooting an smg from the hip.
4. "With of chalk" is laughable. More like a mm, maybe even less...
5. Neither stroke in itself, nor aiming in itself causes you to fail this shot. It's rather the alignment that is the critical factor, in this as in other pool shots.
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Well, I'm not so sure I'd dismiss the "chalk" thing so out of hand because I'm not even looking at a point the size of a piece of chalk.

I'm looking at the whole ball, the whole shot, and what I've learned to do is just look at it and adjust based upon past experience.

"Every bulls eye is the result of 100 misses."

Lou Figueroa
 
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Low500 said:
I don't know how or why I ended up in your post....assuming that's me.
As for that "hard childhood" stuff, it means nothing.
I grew up for years in an orphan's home, and delivered packages for a drugstore on a bicycle in the rain and cold for 35 cents an hour. "Adoption Day" at the home was a sad and disappointing time for most. Draw your own conclusions about that.
I rose above my circumstances......as millions of others (including a lot of pool players) have done.
Sob stories about broken homes and tough childhoods do not impress me one bit.
On the other hand, when it comes to playing and teaching pool, my checking up on this Robin guy tells me he is the real deal. And that is good. The game needs more like him instead of losers at a chalkboard "with all the answers".
He sounds like a winner to me.:thumbup:
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its understandable you have no sympathy for others tough luck stories based on your childhood if your post was sincere and not sarcastic
my post was not for sympathy but to explain robin played for money and won under pressure
traits you seem to place in high regard and essential for an instructor you can respect
"be happy" :D
 
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lfigueroa said:
I'm looking at the whole ball, the whole shot, and what I've learned to do is just look at it and adjust based upon past experience.
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My guess is you (subconsciously) “measure” the amount of CB/OB overlap. I think I (and many others) do that too, maybe along with whatever else we consciously do.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
My guess is you (subconsciously) “measure” the amount of CB/OB overlap. I think I (and many others) do that too, maybe along with whatever else we consciously do.
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lfigueroa said:
hmmmm, no.
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I might say the same thing, since I don't notice myself doing it - but I also recognize that many things happen subconsciously, especially while aiming in pool, that we're not aware of (hence "sub"conscious) - and this seems like a likely one.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I might say the same thing, since I don't notice myself doing it - but I also recognize that many things happen subconsciously, especially while aiming in pool, that we're not aware of (hence "sub"conscious) - and this seems like a likely one.

pj
chgo
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In the words of Robin Williams, "Welcome to my mind. Come on in."

I gotta say, I really don't understand all the amateur psychology. If I say I'm not doing something, then I'm not. And when someone tells me, "Oh you're doing it subconsciously" I say, "phooey" because if it was, it sure isn't subconscious anymore because you've made me conscious of it.

So no. Hell no.

Here's my bestest explanation, and if anyone doesn't buy it they can go... well, you know: The whole focus of my pool playing life, for decades now, has been to have a very precise, very repeatable PSR. When I approach a shot, I typically stand in the same spot in relation to the balls. I look at the shot, the whole shot, and decide what I want to do. I don't look at contact points or nuthin'. If I look at anything at all, I tend to check where I want the CB to land. This takes but a moment unless it's a touchy 1pocket situation.

Once I've made up my mind about what I want to do I descend into shooting position executing my PSR. And what I think happens is that my body unfolds itself using my PSR but in a manner that puts my bridge hand and the rest of my body in perfect position to shoot the shot the way I have decided to shoot it. Once I'm in shooting position the only things I'm checking are my speed during one or two warm up strokes and perhaps making a minute adjustment to where I'm hitting the CB. I see the OB, I see the CB, and I shoot the shot.

That's it. Thank you and good night Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
........

.... The whole focus of my pool playing life, for decades now, has been to have a very precise, very repeatable PSR. When I approach a shot, I typically stand in the same spot in relation to the balls. I look at the shot, the whole shot, and decide what I want to do. I don't look at contact points or nuthin'. If I look at anything at all, I tend to check where I want the CB to land. This takes but a moment unless it's a touchy 1pocket situation.

Once I've made up my mind about what I want to do I descend into shooting position executing my PSR. And what I think happens is that my body unfolds itself using my PSR but in a manner that puts my bridge hand and the rest of my body in perfect position to shoot the shot the way I have decided to shoot it. Once I'm in shooting position the only things I'm checking are my speed during one or two warm up strokes and perhaps making a minute adjustment to where I'm hitting the CB. I see the OB, I see the CB, and I shoot the shot.


Lou Figueroa
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Now you have climbed inside of my head, because this is how I would describe my process when I'm on. When I'm playing great I'm just doing it, no over-thinking, just processing the situation mentally and automatically reacting physically. Unfortunately, for a few months now, it seems I often try to make myself "unfold" into the shot instead of just doing it automatically. But it comes and goes, so I know it's probably stress related and more table time will cure it.
 
lfigueroa said:
I gotta say, I really don't understand all the amateur psychology. If I say I'm not doing something, then I'm not.
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I don't think recognizing that subconscious means "not conscous of it" - or that we all have some of that - is any kind of psychology. It's pretty common knowledge.

Whatever you choose to think about it, more power to you.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I don't think recognizing that subconscious means "not conscous of it" - or that we all have some of that - is any kind of psychology. It's pretty common knowledge.

Whatever you choose to think about it, more power to you.

pj
chgo
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I know all that.

But you used all that to make an unfounded “guess” about what I was doing. After I tried to explain, would it kill you to just admit you were wrong? I’m just surprised by your last response.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
I know all that.

But you used all that to make an unfounded “guess” about what I was doing. After I tried to explain, would it kill you to just admit you were wrong? I’m just surprised by your last response.

Lou Figueroa
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It was more of a guess about what we all do - you’re an innocent bystander I callously used as an example. Sorry about that.

But I bet we all do it.

pj
chgo
 
lfigueroa said:
Here's my bestest explanation, and if anyone doesn't buy it they can go... well, you know: The whole focus of my pool playing life, for decades now, has been to have a very precise, very repeatable PSR. When I approach a shot, I typically stand in the same spot in relation to the balls. I look at the shot, the whole shot, and decide what I want to do. I don't look at contact points or nuthin'. If I look at anything at all, I tend to check where I want the CB to land. This takes but a moment unless it's a touchy 1pocket situation.

Once I've made up my mind about what I want to do I descend into shooting position executing my PSR. And what I think happens is that my body unfolds itself using my PSR but in a manner that puts my bridge hand and the rest of my body in perfect position to shoot the shot the way I have decided to shoot it.

Since I started posting here, I must say you have in fact talked about the importance of a PSR for your way of playing. And it's been consistent.

However, you've also posted about "changing" your PSR a number of times for whatever reason. So something must not have been working to your liking. Is your current PSR the LAST PSR you'll ever have or might there be additional changes?

I know you can't answer it now but chances are it will change again based on past history.


Once I'm in shooting position the only things I'm checking are my speed during one or two warm up strokes and perhaps making a minute adjustment to where I'm hitting the CB. I see the OB, I see the CB, and I shoot the shot.

That's it. Thank you and good night Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

Lou Figueroa
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All that having been said, lets go back to your first post in this thread where you stated being able to teach at least a half dozen aiming systems OR MORE.

If aiming systems have been of no importance to you for decades in your own game, how did you come about to being knowledgeable and proficient enough to learn that many aiming systems to teach someone else?

On this I have to call BS. What aiming systems are they? Did you just read about them but never use them? If so, how can you effectively teach the specifics and nuances without having first hand experience? Did you ever use an aiming system earlier in your life? What was it?

I do believe you on what you say you do to pocket balls. I can play the same way also and have quite a bit years ago. I choose not to because the day to day variations in how our body feels, how our eyes see, timing, balance, nerves, other thoughts pertaining to everything else other than pool come flowing through the brain can throw us off from day to day.

The training and preciseness of a solid aiming system to get homed in is vital. Btw when doing it properly it IS THE ENTIRE PSR. The EYES LEAD AND EVERY SINGLE PART OF THE BODY AND FEET FOLLOW the same way every time

The body doesn't lead with the eyes being the last part to do their job and then fidgeting or making adjustments because something is off.
 
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