How many different cue-tip positins on a cue ball?

mattman

mattman

Registered User
Silver Member
For this purpose, I will refer to just up and down positioning. Now, if I was to guess, there are probably...what...about 20 and spots you could hit without mis-cueing (just on a vertical axis)? Ok...that is one question...and really not the pupose of this thread, but if you know the answer, feel free to respond.

This is really what I want to know. When someone says, "this shot requires 1 tip below center". Ok..follow me here. If a tip diameter is equal to a shaft diameter and it's a 13mm shaft, that means the tip is 13mm or roughly 1/2" (13 X .039 = .507"). Imagine a circle that is 2.25" in diameter. Place a 1/2" dot in the middle, that's center ball hit. Now, when they say "shoot one tip below center, would that mean bringing it down 1/4" or 1/2"?

I think it might be just who you are talking to, because one of my pool instructors said that you most you could go (up, down, left or right) was 3.5 tips...without miscueing. So that mean you would have to come down 1/4" at a time.

I am reading Phil's book Play Your Best Eight Ball and he refers to one tip below center as coming down 1/2" (there abouts).

I guess my question should be, how do you refer "one tip below center"?
 
I can answer that accurately for you mattman. The size of the contact between the tip and CB is appx. 1/8", or 2mm. This happens to be the same size as the red circle on a red circle CB. Hit the CB in the center (or anywhere on the axis) with a well chalked cue, and notice the chalk mark. It will be the same size as the red circle. The area width of available contact on the CB, for normal playing purposes (not including masse') is the width of a quarter, which measures at exactly 1". Many folks use the width of a stripe, which is also pretty accurate, but because you have two curved surfaces (tip and ball), aiming at the lowest edge of the stripe will result in hitting slightly above the actual edge of the stripe. Same for maximum top. Therefore there are 8 possible strike positions on the vertical axis, from maximum draw to maximum topspin. Basically we teach 7...one in the middle and three positions above and below. I suppose if you wanted to get extremely technical, you could presume overlapping this 1/8" circle, but that's pretty hard to comprehend, and even more difficult to reproduce.
This is why as an instructor I find it difficult to use the term "tips of spin". It is much more accurate to think in terms of 2mm circles...or center, and 3 up and 3 down.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Thanks Jordan!:D

Neil...Well, to be honest, EVERY book, video, and player "thinks" in terms of 'tips'. One major problem, as you described, is what size tip do you use?
Some use 13mm, all the way down to a Predator Z-2, which is 11 1/2mm...and then there are snooker shafts as small as 8 or 9mm. The chalk mark is consistent, and an easy way to consciously "see" an actual contact point, that can be measured against the entire area of possible contact.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Technically if speaking in terms of math, there are an infinite amount of points that you can hit on just the vertical axis alone.:D
 
if it is true that all mm tips leave the same size mark, would it then be because of radius?

also scott, I think that if a student (such as I) can think of center axis in terms of only 7 spots as you explained (center and 3 up and down) that simplifies it a lot. A ton actually. I just need drills now to imbed those other 6 and the effect so i can call upon a the right point on the axis at all times.

really good stuff
 
????????????

Me thinks I'm reading a little BS here. Think about this. Let's use a little commonsense here. If a pingpong ball and a bowling ball are both round, that would give them the same radius? True or False? If you chalk a pingpong ball and press it against a sheet of paper and you chalk a bowling ball and press it against a sheet of paper, which one leaves a larger imprint? I'm going for bowling ball everytime.
Predator Z shafts and Z/2 shafts are both 11 3/4 mm and most conventional shafts start out at 13 mm. Does it not stand to reason that 13 mm makes more contact with the cue ball? That's why players use 13 mm instead of 12 mm in conventional shafts to get more consistent and even hit during play. If you hit two tips below center with your stroke and draw your cue ball and a professional hits one tip below center and draws his cue ball, which players cue ball do you think will draw the furthest? Chances are it's going to be the professional. Stroke is the name of the game.
Pinocchio
 
Pinocchio said:
Stroke is the name of the game.
Pinocchio
Click to expand...

You know, I only use three different vertical axis spots - center, 1 tip above center and 1 1/2 tips below center. From those 3 locations I vary the speed of the stroke to get shape. I very rarely adjust from those contact points, though I will for stop shots. Realize, I am not a top level player. I would be interested in hearing from the forums' best shooters on this matter. What do they do?
 
Einstein????????

I watched Grady coach Williebetmore at DCC last year an would have Willie go out either 1 or 2 cue tip widths from center it was most educational an highly productive. I would say it made Willie about 2 balls better. Different instructors teach different things an have totally different techniques. So my guess would be if you only know 3 your way ahead of the game!
Pinocchio
 
Pinocchio said:
If you hit two tips below center with your stroke and draw your cue ball and a professional hits one tip below center and draws his cue ball, which players cue ball do you think will draw the furthest? Chances are it's going to be the professional. Stroke is the name of the game.
Pinocchio
Click to expand...

Ben...Stroke being equal, either player will get more draw striking the CB lower at "two tips" low, than at one tip low. Pretty simple physics there.
If you are calling BS on what I know to be a fact, then do some research and see for yourself what size the contact area (i.e.: chalk mark) is for various size tips. You will find it to be nearly identical regardless of tip size.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott!!!!!!!!

I don't think stroke would be equal between a pro an a novice an with the same radius a 13mm makes more contact than a 12mm an pred Z shafts are 11 an 3/4mm not 11 an 1/2 you do some research Scott!!!!!!!!
Respectfully
Pinocchio
 
Pinocchio said:
Me thinks I'm reading a little BS here. Think about this. Let's use a little commonsense here. If a pingpong ball and a bowling ball are both round, that would give them the same radius? True or False?
Click to expand...

Actually here, you aren't quite comparing apples to apples. Now let's take your example and apply it a little more accurately. Take a steel rod the same diameter as a bowling ball, and take a steel rod the same diameter as a ping pong ball. Now radius both ends of those rods with the same radius as the bowling ball. Press both rods against a sheet of paper and you will get the exact same size imprint. Applied to a cue stick, assuming the same radius and same hardness tip, the diameter of the shaft doesn't matter, except for how low the cue stick can go.
 
Pinocchio said:
Pie are round cake are square. Does that make sense to you?
Pinocchio
Click to expand...

Absolutely. You also said that a bowling ball and a ping pong ball have the same radius because they're round. (Which by the way is blatantly false.) Round is a shape, not a size, does that make sense to you?
 
Shakes !!!!!!!

The reason i asked if you thought pie are round cake are square is to see if we could agree on something. Now we have something in common.
Pinocchio
 
Pinocchio said:
Absolutely!!!!!! but 13mm ain't 12mm do you agree?
Pinocchio
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree. Now explain to me if you take a circle 1" in diameter (approximate radius of a quarter) and draw a center line through it, then move up that radius 6 mm on either side making parallel lines (making the tip of a 12 mm shaft), and then do the same thing at 6.5 mm (making the tip of a 13 mm shaft). Now take another sheet of paper and draw a 2 1/4" circle (approximate size of a cue ball) and show me how you can make a larger contact area with a 13mm vs a 12mm shaft. I'm not asking you to debate it here, just draw it out and take a look at it.
 
I must need to go take a math refresh course, because I was taught

radius
diameter
and circumference meant something different than what is being describe here in this thread

no-sho = no idea
 
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