How many of you can make the textbook wing ball on a 9-ball break every time?

CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Having watched the appropriate videos and read the books and forums, I know the theory about how the wing ball in 9 ball is supposed to go in.

I understand that it's lined up to hit well above the corner pocket, but by hitting at an angle you can cause the ball beneath the wing ball to start moving a millsecond before the wing ball itself moves, and this gets the ball out of the way enough for the wing ball to travel 'downhill' before caroming off of the 'helper ball' and into the pocket. I also know about how to take advantage of the tiny spaces between balls in a typical rack to help this along.

So, despite all that knowledge, why is it that I cannot get this supposedly consistent, guaranteed wing ball that's supposed to ruin the game of 9-ball?

Actually, I shouldn't say supposedly... I have a video of Corey playing a set and dropping it about 30 times in a row. So I know it's real, and they've made rule changes to deal with it and that's why 10-ball is awesome, etc.

What I don't get is, how does one make this happen without those tiny spaces that you capitalize on (per Joe Tucker's videos)? What can you do with a perfect rack where breaking even from the side rail doesn't seem to be able to bring the wing ball low enough to pocket it? I can get it to hit lower than its original tangent line, but to get it in the pocket I damn near have to do a half ball hit on the 1, yet the pros never have to hit that far to the side to make it. What am I missing?
 
CreeDo said:
Having watched the appropriate videos and read the books and forums, I know the theory about how the wing ball in 9 ball is supposed to go in.

I understand that it's lined up to hit well above the corner pocket, but by hitting at an angle you can cause the ball beneath the wing ball to start moving a millsecond before the wing ball itself moves, and this gets the ball out of the way enough for the wing ball to travel 'downhill' before caroming off of the 'helper ball' and into the pocket. I also know about how to take advantage of the tiny spaces between balls in a typical rack to help this along.

So, despite all that knowledge, why is it that I cannot get this supposedly consistent, guaranteed wing ball that's supposed to ruin the game of 9-ball?

Actually, I shouldn't say supposedly... I have a video of Corey playing a set and dropping it about 30 times in a row. So I know it's real, and they've made rule changes to deal with it and that's why 10-ball is awesome, etc.

What I don't get is, how does one make this happen without those tiny spaces that you capitalize on (per Joe Tucker's videos)? What can you do with a perfect rack where breaking even from the side rail doesn't seem to be able to bring the wing ball low enough to pocket it? I can get it to hit lower than its original tangent line, but to get it in the pocket I damn near have to do a half ball hit on the 1, yet the pros never have to hit that far to the side to make it. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

Rack and ball placing is key. Tapped tables sure help. Try hitting the 1 ball a little or less full, this will change the path of balls. Personally I like trying the 1 in the side. Once you get this ball going others seem to find the pocket. If you are cranking the balls, hit them easy and watch where the balls hit the rail. There is no trick just tons of practice.

Also, some tables are slugs no matter what, maybe you are playing on one.
 
CreeDo said:
Having watched the appropriate videos and read the books and forums, I know the theory about how the wing ball in 9 ball is supposed to go in.

I understand that it's lined up to hit well above the corner pocket, but by hitting at an angle you can cause the ball beneath the wing ball to start moving a millsecond before the wing ball itself moves, and this gets the ball out of the way enough for the wing ball to travel 'downhill' before caroming off of the 'helper ball' and into the pocket. I also know about how to take advantage of the tiny spaces between balls in a typical rack to help this along.

So, despite all that knowledge, why is it that I cannot get this supposedly consistent, guaranteed wing ball that's supposed to ruin the game of 9-ball?

Actually, I shouldn't say supposedly... I have a video of Corey playing a set and dropping it about 30 times in a row. So I know it's real, and they've made rule changes to deal with it and that's why 10-ball is awesome, etc.

What I don't get is, how does one make this happen without those tiny spaces that you capitalize on (per Joe Tucker's videos)? What can you do with a perfect rack where breaking even from the side rail doesn't seem to be able to bring the wing ball low enough to pocket it? I can get it to hit lower than its original tangent line, but to get it in the pocket I damn near have to do a half ball hit on the 1, yet the pros never have to hit that far to the side to make it. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Would love to kno this myself could be helpfull to protect your racks
 
You need to rack the balls "tighter". A 100% frozen rack will make the wing ball very easy to pocket, but you don't need them all frozen, only certain ones. In the video he shows you which balls need to be touching in order for the correct ball to move first.

It's not always easy (for me) to do on tables that don't want to cooperate. It takes practice to be able to see the tiny gaps and to get good at freezing the balls to eliminate those gaps.
 
Last edited:
Jason Robichaud said:
Rack and ball placing is key. Tapped tables sure help. Try hitting the 1 ball a little or less full, this will change the path of balls. Personally I like trying the 1 in the side. Once you get this ball going others seem to find the pocket. If you are cranking the balls, hit them easy and watch where the balls hit the rail. There is no trick just tons of practice.

Also, some tables are slugs no matter what, maybe you are playing on one.
Click to expand...

Jason, I'm not sure there isn't a trick -- I watched Mika make the wing ball EVERY SINGLE time he broke -- it's a rack your own format on the tour so he was setting it up for himself and he was VERY particular about how the balls were placed together (checking for gaps, paying close attention to the back balls) and he'd hit that 1-ball dead square leaving the cue in the center of the table each time. He never cut the 1 ball. He even admitted to placing the 2 ball as the wing ball (Chavez and him were playing on blue felt) so that the 2 would not be left on the table b/c of the whole ball-matching-cloth added difficulty factor...

There's definitely a secret to the ball layout/gaps/etc for making that wing ball and I sure wish I knew what it was.
 
The rack and your stroke must be consistent. Some tables have a groove to them and others don't. Ever hear someone complain of a tough-breaking table?

In my experiments, I've found that moving the CB a 1/2" either way can effect the direction of the corner ball. I have someone watch as I break a few times and note where the corner ball hits on the side or end rail. From there, I move the CB one way or the other (or increase/decrease CB speed) to increase my chances of making the corner ball.

BTW, you can make the corner ball from the side rail and near the center. You can find those spots if you try...and the table isn't grooved the wrong way.
 
Until now I've pocketed the wingball regulary on a tapped table. I'd say 95% There might've been some wobbles in my stroke where I didn't hit the 1-Ball right, but normally the wingball goes into the corner like it's on rails. With the Softbreak and my normal breakspeed which is not a powerbreak, but hard enough. I'd say speed 4-5 according to PAT

With a normal rack I'd say 60-70%, but that is too much a matter of a correct rack.

The more I play on tapped tables, the more boring it is. Also in straight pool there are certain balls you'd never play with a normal rack. Makes pool too easy
 
midwest__player said:
Good Advice mark i will be sure to try it out tonight but after a while im sure that making the 9 ball on the snap will cost u action
Click to expand...
If I stop by MTB tonight I'll try to show you a few things I've learned about the 9B break. I used to have quite a bit of stuff memorized, but I don't remember it all any more since I don't play very much.
 
Thanks for the replies so far.
At this point I still dunno if it's me or the table or how much care went into the rack. The table can be tough to rack on, the balls want to settle in 1 place only and being above or below that place will cause them to separate. So it's almost like it's tapped already.

I'll see if just tweaking by tiny half inch increments and varying speed gets me closer to begin with before I start agonizing over the table.
 
CreeDo said:
Thanks for the replies so far.
At this point I still dunno if it's me or the table or how much care went into the rack. The table can be tough to rack on, the balls want to settle in 1 place only and being above or below that place will cause them to separate. So it's almost like it's tapped already.

I'll see if just tweaking by tiny half inch increments and varying speed gets me closer to begin with before I start agonizing over the table.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm guessing it's the rack, especially if you're placing the cue ball near the rail and the wing ball is hitting the long rail. Getting the rack right is the hardest part.

For those who are dying to know how it works, the product is Racking Secrets and the web site is www.joetucker.net. ;)
 
Some already mentioned this, but you need a perfect rack.
I was first showed this break in Japan on a table set up to give a perfect rack every time.

I stopped counting after pocketing the wing ball 15 times in a row.
Place the CB near either side rail at the head string (about one ball from the rail).
Line up a dead straight line from the CB to the head ball (1 Ball).
I put an RCH (tiny bit of) draw. The head ball (1 Ball) misses the side pocket and lays up to the corner pocket (nearest where you broke from). You CB is somewhere in the middle of the table. You should be pocketing the wing ball on the same side that you broke from.

Now, give me a rack with 1 or 2 balls not frozen to the surrounding balls, and I'll be lucky to make a ball, and if I do, I am usually hooked.

Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets is a great reference for reading racks....which I need to get my DVD back from a buddy. I really need to refresh my memory with the content.
I hear Joe might be working on a sequel.
 
Theres an old Varner/Sigel match where the corner ball went in with a bang 20+ times in a row or something crazy.

It went in with a bang every time. I think Sigel scratched at 12-10, race to 13, and offered Nick two games on the wire if he could break hill-hill.

Wasn't allowed.
 
CreeDo said:
Thanks for the replies so far.
At this point I still dunno if it's me or the table or how much care went into the rack. The table can be tough to rack on, the balls want to settle in 1 place only and being above or below that place will cause them to separate. So it's almost like it's tapped already.

I'll see if just tweaking by tiny half inch increments and varying speed gets me closer to begin with before I start agonizing over the table.
Click to expand...

Just look to see if the 9 moves on the break without being kicked by another ball. When it does it is almost always the result of a not frozen rack. The only time it wouldn't be is if there was some kind of bad skid. Ninety-nine percent of the time it will be because of a bad rack.
 
Couldnt make it work

mosconiac said:
If I stop by MTB tonight I'll try to show you a few things I've learned about the 9B break. I used to have quite a bit of stuff memorized, but I don't remember it all any more since I don't play very much.
Click to expand...

hey mark i was playing cheap 10 dollar sets a lot last night and only 9 ball made was when he was outside smoking. But Guess it just proves don't just rely on your break gotta shoot decent to. Look forward to seeing u next week if your gonna be in
 
bud green said:
Theres an old Varner/Sigel match where the corner ball went in with a bang 20+ times in a row or something crazy.

It went in with a bang every time. I think Sigel scratched at 12-10, race to 13, and offered Nick two games on the wire if he could break hill-hill.

Wasn't allowed.
Click to expand...


i notice with increased rack your own rules, that when im racking the same balls (or same gaps) will give me trouble EVERY rack. in the sigel varner match i bet it just so happened that either all the balls (unlikely) were freazing every time, or more likely, the important balls were freazing every time..... just no matter how you push em up sometimes the right 4 balls freeze every time. this is why people find there is a "good" side to break from imo, its not necessarily the cloth or anything, but the way the balls are freezing.
 
enzo said:
i notice with increased rack your own rules, that when im racking the same balls (or same gaps) will give me trouble EVERY rack. in the sigel varner match i bet it just so happened that either all the balls (unlikely) were freazing every time, or more likely, the important balls were freazing every time..... just no matter how you push em up sometimes the right 4 balls freeze every time. this is why people find there is a "good" side to break from imo, its not necessarily the cloth or anything, but the way the balls are freezing.
Click to expand...

This is true, but I think the cloth has a direct effect on this, due to the dimples that develop in the cloth. The balls want to settle right into those tiny divots in the cloth, which aren't always exactly where you need them to be for the balls to be touching.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top