You've got a bet!
How Many Women going to play in the US Open?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
You've got a bet!
So you ARE part of the lock society Jay!
Sneaky SOB, set the trap, laid the bait...
(let me know if you need to lay off some of that heavy action)
bet sir see you next week
My guess is that they want no part of paying the entry fee, and other expenses (even though most are sponsored), to play in a tournament they have little chance of getting in the money to reimburse. Simple as that.
We had a "debate" about women in the U.S. Open months back, and I was made to be the bad-guy for simply being a skeptic. Seems the women, through their actions, agree with much of what I said (indirectly of course).
I don't articulate my thoughts very well, for that I apologize. But I try and look at the bigger picture. In past threads, we talked about performance and skill. I'd like to add another factor. Top women players are almost a sort of brand. Going to the Open and getting beat up tarnishes this brand.
What do I mean by that....many (including myself don't see it this way) have a highly idolized view of women pro players. Especially the old timers. They are convinced the ladies play every bit as well as the men. This simply isn't supported by any fact. There's no arguing with these guys. Their mind is set. They are big time fans of women's pool, they love these women, and they worship their game. And you know what? Good for them. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's good for pool. The women's tour does well (men don't even have a tour), has more sponsors and sponsorships, gets more TV time, and does better in just about every way. If it weren't for women's pool keeping pool in general on life support the last 10-15 years, who knows how dismal things would be right now.
I hear it all the time, Allison vs SVB, Jasmin vs. Reyes what would happen scenarios and all this. But with the belief it's actually a close match up. Gimme a break. I know Allison is awesome and can take it to a lot of men players, but don't go off the deep end. I hear a lot of this in pool rooms across the land by the older, male fans of women's pool who are fanatic supporters. Don't need to show these guys proof that the tooth fairy and santa clause ain't real. I know these statements are going to catch me flak. Some will think I am scum, but whatever. I'm the messenger, don't shoot me.
I think it's economics at play here. What good does it do for these top women pros to go to the open? There is a real good chance that many of them will be defeated by lesser known players on that list. Because as we all know, there are all sorts of good players out there it's impossible to keep up with every local small town hot shot. And these guys can play.
That isn't to say the ladies can't. But if local tourney's and the IPT was any indication, it will be rough for the ladies.
Why spend the money there? Stick to their tour where the top ladies always cash in, get points and much more. It's better investment of time and money. That's my guess on why many haven't jumped in. But...sign up is still open so anything can happen.
Another thing is, why would they support the U.S. Open? Women in the U.S. Open enhances the buzz about the U.S. Open, not these women or the women's tour. Whatever they generate will be helpful to the Open, and could be short lived depending on how they do. There's more pitfalls than potential benefits. Women players enhance their brand and their celebrity status best in women's events and within their tour and organization. They draw big crowds and have a stronger fan-base connection. They really are loved by their fans.
Reality is, I'm more supportive of the ladies - but in a different way. All this talk about playing with the men to prove a point. That's all nonsense.
Can ANYONE here tell me one damn thing any top lady pro needs to prove to pool playing world or the men? ONE thing?
They don't have to prove nothing. IN fact, it's the other way around. How about the men being the ones needing to prove something. Prove they've got what it takes....
Dunno what I mean?
Perhaps the men ought to prove they're real pros by generating the kind of money and publicity the women do. They don't come close except for the very elite of the men's players thanks to a few big events worldwide. But they don't come close in promoting themselves, the sport or the tour. No where near. Any boost the men have gotten is thanks to the greater globalization of pool. The improvements in events overseas. In North America it's the pits. The women connect with fans. Fans have greater loyalty. They generate more enthusiasm.
The men need to prove they can actually form a tour, act like civilized human beings and be real professionals both sports professionals and business professionals like the ladies. So far, the men haven't come close to proving that.
While we pool geeks like to see various men vs. women match ups, the important thing is, what's in it for them? The women have their own world, a more successful, better organized and better promoted world they want to be king of the hill in. I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if many top women pros thought of playing in the U.S. Open as a downgrade or lower in many ways than what they've been a part of. We think of the U.S. Open as the U.S. Open in other sports, or like Wimbledon aka the big one everyone covets. Is it? Being #1 and being champ on the women's tour is more prestigious in my opinion. No, it doesn't mean that from a skill & performance perspective compared to men worldwide, but it's better in every other way.
Just my $0.02....Now you haters who don't understand me can flame away, I'm going to put my fire suit on now. :grin:
You did a much better job this time.
I don't know that I agree with everything you said, but you make several very good points. Here's to hoping some of the top ladies get into it if only to get a bit more exposure for the womens game.
We shall see.
I understand
where you are coming from and pretty much agree with you. Only the up-n-comers in the women's tour would really have something to gain by doing well in the US Open, but fact is, most will probably be gone after 3 matches.
We should keep track and see which woman player does the best in the Open and how far she goes.
where you are coming from and pretty much agree with you. Only the up-n-comers in the women's tour would really have something to gain by doing well in the US Open, but fact is, most will probably be gone after 3 matches.
We should keep track and see which woman player does the best in the Open and how far she goes.
It's always funny to me how controversial everyone on the forums try to make things out to be. The WPBA is sending out a press release this week about the U.S. Open and the WPBA players that will be competing. I can't speak for all of the players so I don't know if some of what people are saying was said by players is true or not but I do know what the top players that I spoke to told me.
I circulated and email to all exempt players to get names of those who plan to play in the open and all of the top players that told me they would not be attending said it was because the Women's World 10-Ball Championships (a world ranking event) was scheduled to overlap with this event and by late in the week, they would be in Asia already. I have recently been told that the World Championships has changed their players meeting and start date to right after the U.S. Open but most players already had their travel plans. When flying overseas, many of the top players like to arrive several days early to adjust to the jet-lag.
I will say that there are more names that are not on the confirmed list that indicated to me that they would be playing so look out for the WPBA press release later this week/weekend for more information and a full list of exempt players attending.
I circulated and email to all exempt players to get names of those who plan to play in the open and all of the top players that told me they would not be attending said it was because the Women's World 10-Ball Championships (a world ranking event) was scheduled to overlap with this event and by late in the week, they would be in Asia already. I have recently been told that the World Championships has changed their players meeting and start date to right after the U.S. Open but most players already had their travel plans. When flying overseas, many of the top players like to arrive several days early to adjust to the jet-lag.
I will say that there are more names that are not on the confirmed list that indicated to me that they would be playing so look out for the WPBA press release later this week/weekend for more information and a full list of exempt players attending.
Proves what I said. Why slug it out in the US Open when playing a Woman's event is so much better? Cash in, gain points, better exposure...all that good stuff.
Payouts of the Women's World 10-Ball:
1st $20,000
2nd $9,000
3-4th $5000
5-8th $3000
9-16th $1500
17-24th $1000
4th Place in group (x 8) $250
5th and 6th Place in group (x8) $125
US Open Payout:
1st place $40,000
2nd $15,000
3rd $10,000
4th $8,000
5-6 $6,000 each
7-8 $4,500 each
9-12 $3,000 each
13-16 $2,000 each
17-24 $1,500 each
25-32 $1,250 each
33-48 $1,000 each
49-64 $750 each
65-96 $500 each
A top woman player that can finish in the top 32 in the U.S. Open is strong enough to win the Women's 10-Ball or place in top 3.
Playing in the U.S. Open makes no sense unless there's simply nothing else to do that week and they're in town
Payouts of the Women's World 10-Ball:
1st $20,000
2nd $9,000
3-4th $5000
5-8th $3000
9-16th $1500
17-24th $1000
4th Place in group (x 8) $250
5th and 6th Place in group (x8) $125
US Open Payout:
1st place $40,000
2nd $15,000
3rd $10,000
4th $8,000
5-6 $6,000 each
7-8 $4,500 each
9-12 $3,000 each
13-16 $2,000 each
17-24 $1,500 each
25-32 $1,250 each
33-48 $1,000 each
49-64 $750 each
65-96 $500 each
A top woman player that can finish in the top 32 in the U.S. Open is strong enough to win the Women's 10-Ball or place in top 3.
Playing in the U.S. Open makes no sense unless there's simply nothing else to do that week and they're in town
There's something to be said for starting small and building upon it.
Regardless of how many women play in the US Open this year, next year and the years after will be even better as more women (especially the stronger players) decide to play in it.
Bola,
Great post. Assuming I understood you (I think I did), I think you expressed your points very well here. Some good points.
FWIW, I think Allison in her heyday would have been pretty good competition for all but the tip top men, and perhaps even there. She really is a model of consistency, and I wouldn't have been too surprised to see her finish in the top 10. At this point, it seems to me that if Ga Young Kim could get into her top gear and stay there for her matches, she maybe has the best shot of doing well. However, I think she has the luxury of being able to *dominate* her opponents in the WPBA when she is in a groove, and this domination fuels that top gear. Remove the domination factor, and you might see a "downshift". Also Jasmine is no slouch either...don't forget she finished what...3rd? in the mens (excuse me "open") 14.1 against top men players.
I would really love to see a women do well in this event. I guess we shall see!
Again, nice post.
KMRUNOUT
Great post. Assuming I understood you (I think I did), I think you expressed your points very well here. Some good points.
FWIW, I think Allison in her heyday would have been pretty good competition for all but the tip top men, and perhaps even there. She really is a model of consistency, and I wouldn't have been too surprised to see her finish in the top 10. At this point, it seems to me that if Ga Young Kim could get into her top gear and stay there for her matches, she maybe has the best shot of doing well. However, I think she has the luxury of being able to *dominate* her opponents in the WPBA when she is in a groove, and this domination fuels that top gear. Remove the domination factor, and you might see a "downshift". Also Jasmine is no slouch either...don't forget she finished what...3rd? in the mens (excuse me "open") 14.1 against top men players.
I would really love to see a women do well in this event. I guess we shall see!
Again, nice post.
KMRUNOUT
That's it in a nutshell. If they want to play they can. If they don't that's okay too. It's too bad there's a close conflict with the Women's World Championship this year, but that's the way it is. Thank God there isn't a Eurotour event scheduled that week. All hell would break loose!
I think the points aspect is a huge factor in some of their decisions, particularly the European players. For U.S. players the world championships or their world ranking doesn't really effect many things. However, for some of the European players, this effects many things within their own federations. Holland for example...if their players maintain a certain position in the world rankings at the end of one year, they get an annual salary (thru a monthly stipend I believe) for the following year as a "pro athlete" so these world ranking events are very important to them. Holland even pays most of their expenses for the world ranking events in that following year. I'm not sure how it works in other European countries but I do know that the European players place a lot of weight on the European Championships and any world ranking event.
But like Jay said, this is just the beginning of what could build to be bigger. I am sure that many of the top players that will not attend this year would have attended if they didn't have previous conflicts and hopefully many more will attend next year.
Now Christina, don't go and start making sense around here... what will people think?
Making sense? Crazy talk. Crazy talk, I say!