How much should a custom cue cost?
- Thread starter ShootingArts
- Start date
I think thta makers such as wheat and Dominiak show that prices over $400 to $500 are really for name and appearance. I have seen basic playing cues that cost $1800 with no added inlays or decoration. The person bought the cue from a well known maker, and was obviously paying a lot for his name. Being that this was his playing cue, I can not see how it is worth that. I just don't think it was that much better than a good playing $400 cue. I imagine it will hold value better, but was it really worth $1800???
WheatCues
Banned
ShootingArts said:
So now we are getting into repair costs ????
To answer your question completely.... myself and Pete Ohman "OmenCues" are the only two professional cuesmiths in brevard county and we keep our repair prices consistant with one another to avoid confliction and the unfotunate catalyst that dictates our prices is AURORA ROAD BILLIARD SUPPLY in melbourne fl. who contracts repairs to pete and myself and already has the set prices for his clients and for the rest of the world to see.... so we are kind of stuck as far as that is concerned due to the fact that they are international and the 4th largest supplier in the world, we can't pass up the income by squabbling over a few dollars....
Hu, I do not stock bunches of MOORI'S due to thier tendency to harden up and so I buy several at a time from Joe at AURORA for 12.00-15.00 each... I know guys that charge 40-45.00 to install a moori and get it all day long.... and me and pete thought we were low.... but 35.00 is the average going rate !
Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
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WheatCues
Banned
regarding overhead expenses
Hu,
Yes I converted my carport "garage" into my shop and my overhead costs are minimal and do not require a warehouse to build cues...so I AM in the position to sell at a lower price...
But that was not a considering factor when I approached the market with my prices, I was only considering material costs and labor, nothing more...
I'm all about the customer when it comes to building cues and especially since I'm breaking into the market on a national level... I need to insure affordabilty and quality becasue I want volume sales... I simply want everyone to be able to afford a nice tool that will help them increase thier overall performance without having to call a finance company or mortgage the house to be able to buy one !
And by the way Hu, Mine and Pete's repair prices are very reasonable and even though we are locked in on certain repair aspects.. there are the remaining services that are underpriced in my opinion... so there is a balance.... remember we can do EVERYTHING when it comes to any kind of repair or broken butt... we have zero limitations in that dept. and the quality our work is consistant and excellent !
- Eddie Wheat
Hu,
Yes I converted my carport "garage" into my shop and my overhead costs are minimal and do not require a warehouse to build cues...so I AM in the position to sell at a lower price...
But that was not a considering factor when I approached the market with my prices, I was only considering material costs and labor, nothing more...
I'm all about the customer when it comes to building cues and especially since I'm breaking into the market on a national level... I need to insure affordabilty and quality becasue I want volume sales... I simply want everyone to be able to afford a nice tool that will help them increase thier overall performance without having to call a finance company or mortgage the house to be able to buy one !
And by the way Hu, Mine and Pete's repair prices are very reasonable and even though we are locked in on certain repair aspects.. there are the remaining services that are underpriced in my opinion... so there is a balance.... remember we can do EVERYTHING when it comes to any kind of repair or broken butt... we have zero limitations in that dept. and the quality our work is consistant and excellent !
- Eddie Wheat
less than minimum wage
If a man pays notes or rent on a shop and runs a legal business paying taxes, licensing, and all the things that go with running a business he can't earn a living making $400-$500 sticks full time. This is assuming that this is all he does and he has no other incomes or sources of support. Someone who is retired or has other income and has a backyard shop with no real utilities, rent, or other expenses can do OK at this pricing, especially if their home is paid for. However it isn't realistic to think that every cue maker will be a backyard builder or have a commercial building paid for.
Exceptions to everything but for the most part cheap cues have to be made cheaply. I bought a cheap cue a few years back mostly out of curiosity. This was a semi custom, I specified tip, cue length, and weight and had to wait for it to be made. Seemed OK when I got it.
The first discovery was the shaft was garbage. Then the insert pulled out of the shaft before I had time to replace it and I discovered that the hole in the shaft for the insert wasn't threaded. A straight hole had been cut of a size that the insert barely scored the wall as it was threaded into the shaft and then it was glued in place. No big deal for me, I made a new shaft. UG-LY! The pin in the butt was way off center. Now I have to remove the pin,(discovered it had been cut in half with only about an inch of thread in the butt) get the butt running true in my lathe, core the butt for a few inches, install a maple dowel, and put in a new pin. I wasn't happy with the joint collar work either so I replaced the joint collar too.
What this all means is that my cheap cue was pretty danged expensive since all I really got for my money that I could use was a plain piece of wood and a rubber bumper. I sometimes see the same cues being spoken of highly on this forum. A lot like some sausage, ignorance is bliss!
Hu
If a man pays notes or rent on a shop and runs a legal business paying taxes, licensing, and all the things that go with running a business he can't earn a living making $400-$500 sticks full time. This is assuming that this is all he does and he has no other incomes or sources of support. Someone who is retired or has other income and has a backyard shop with no real utilities, rent, or other expenses can do OK at this pricing, especially if their home is paid for. However it isn't realistic to think that every cue maker will be a backyard builder or have a commercial building paid for.
Exceptions to everything but for the most part cheap cues have to be made cheaply. I bought a cheap cue a few years back mostly out of curiosity. This was a semi custom, I specified tip, cue length, and weight and had to wait for it to be made. Seemed OK when I got it.
The first discovery was the shaft was garbage. Then the insert pulled out of the shaft before I had time to replace it and I discovered that the hole in the shaft for the insert wasn't threaded. A straight hole had been cut of a size that the insert barely scored the wall as it was threaded into the shaft and then it was glued in place. No big deal for me, I made a new shaft. UG-LY! The pin in the butt was way off center. Now I have to remove the pin,(discovered it had been cut in half with only about an inch of thread in the butt) get the butt running true in my lathe, core the butt for a few inches, install a maple dowel, and put in a new pin. I wasn't happy with the joint collar work either so I replaced the joint collar too.
What this all means is that my cheap cue was pretty danged expensive since all I really got for my money that I could use was a plain piece of wood and a rubber bumper. I sometimes see the same cues being spoken of highly on this forum. A lot like some sausage, ignorance is bliss!
Hu
mantis99 said:
WheatCues
Banned
ShootingArts said:
This is why my contribution is soooo warranted !
Becasue I CAN give professional quality at a reasonable price !!!!
And I am a legitimate business....
Hu, I am not in debt I have no creditors except a mortgage.... I really have no lifestyle and don't require a bunch of money to sustain me, I haven't been out on a date in over 3yrs. so there's no significant other to worry about, my family is dead... and the only member l have left is my 94yr. old grandma that lives with me that I look after and care for !
I'm simply looking beyond myself and giving back to this industry that has given me lifelong friends, a solid repuation as a player and a cuesmith plus countless tournament wins mostly local, and has treated me pretty friggin' well over the last 21yrs !
And now I'm in the process of achieving the same goal as a Cuemaker, It's all about KARMA and it works both ways ! so what's wrong with me giving back ?
SO now that you know just how pathetic of a lifestyle I chose to lead.... is there any mystery left to why I want to give my customers more than the expect without having to breakout the K-Y to get it !
It's because I simply give a damn !
I'm in this to the end... I'm 38yrs old. and I will be building cues for many moons to come ! I want to saturate this industry with my cues I want everyone to be able to afford a tool that will help them improve their performance !
I simply want to redefine what customers should expect from the term "custom cue" !
I'm on a mission........ lol !
Thanks, Eddie Wheat
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my points exactly
Eddie,
I think you made all of my points well. First you are only considering material costs and labor when building a cue. That is only a fraction of the normal cost of doing business. Also you acknowledge that your profit on different things varies widely. You undercharge for some things and some things you make a very nice profit on. If we could all just put on ferules and layered tips nonstop eight hours a day for six months out of the year we could all meet up and spend the other six months in Tahiti.
You choose to sell cues based on material costs and labor and make up your overhead other places. I choose to try to make the same hourly return building butts, cutting shafts, or doing repairs. Neither of us is wrong in what we do, it is just two different business models.
By the way, as we both know $35 is a reasonable going rate for putting on a Moori in your shop. At an event you might have to charge fifty dollars because the venue normally gets a cut. However, I have a little difficulty understanding why the market allows $29 or more mark-up for putting on a layered tip and usually $9 for putting on most nonlayered tips. We don't lose enough layered tips to justify the difference in price nor is there any significant difference in the time to install each. It is purely market demand that you object to in complete cues that makes the premium price to put on layered tips possible. Of course if we don't make the money there, we do have to make it somewhere else.
Hu
(quick edit)
Eddy, our posts are crisscrossing now.
Nothing wrong with what you do, it is great. However I think you have to admit it isn't practical for the average cuemaker.
Hu
Eddie,
I think you made all of my points well. First you are only considering material costs and labor when building a cue. That is only a fraction of the normal cost of doing business. Also you acknowledge that your profit on different things varies widely. You undercharge for some things and some things you make a very nice profit on. If we could all just put on ferules and layered tips nonstop eight hours a day for six months out of the year we could all meet up and spend the other six months in Tahiti.
You choose to sell cues based on material costs and labor and make up your overhead other places. I choose to try to make the same hourly return building butts, cutting shafts, or doing repairs. Neither of us is wrong in what we do, it is just two different business models.
By the way, as we both know $35 is a reasonable going rate for putting on a Moori in your shop. At an event you might have to charge fifty dollars because the venue normally gets a cut. However, I have a little difficulty understanding why the market allows $29 or more mark-up for putting on a layered tip and usually $9 for putting on most nonlayered tips. We don't lose enough layered tips to justify the difference in price nor is there any significant difference in the time to install each. It is purely market demand that you object to in complete cues that makes the premium price to put on layered tips possible. Of course if we don't make the money there, we do have to make it somewhere else.
Hu
(quick edit)
Eddy, our posts are crisscrossing now.
Nothing wrong with what you do, it is great. However I think you have to admit it isn't practical for the average cuemaker.
Hu
WheatCues said:
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WheatCues
Banned
ShootingArts said:Eddie,
I think you made all of my points well. First you are only considering material costs and labor when building a cue. That is only a fraction of the normal cost of doing business. Also you acknowledge that your profit on different things varies widely. You undercharge for some things and some things you make a very nice profit on. If we could all just put on ferules and layered tips nonstop eight hours a day for six months out of the year we could all meet up and spend the other six months in Tahiti.
You choose to sell cues based on material costs and labor and make up your overhead other places. I choose to try to make the same hourly return building butts, cutting shafts, or doing repairs. Neither of us is wrong in what we do, it is just two different business models.
By the way, as we both know $35 is a reasonable going rate for putting on a Moori in your shop. At an event you might have to charge fifty dollars because the venue normally gets a cut. However, I have a little difficulty understanding why the market allows $29 or more mark-up for putting on a layered tip and usually $9 for putting on most nonlayered tips. We don't lose enough layered tips to justify the difference in price nor is there any significant difference in the time to install each. It is purely market demand that you object to in complete cues that makes the premium price to put on layered tips possible. Of course if we don't make the money there, we do have to make it somewhere else.
Hu
You are correct and thank you !
I share the same inquiry for the justification as well when it comes to that particular subject regarding tip prices....
Hu, I really love what I do, just as you do.. and as you said neither one is wrong or right we just operate differently... and that I guess my question is why can't more operate on less of a nut just to pass the savings on to thier customers ?? it seems like it's a warranted request !!!
We all make money or we wouldnt be doing this on the level that we are.... the question is how much does one need to make without compromising his/her lifestyle ?
That is the defining aspect of each professional cuemaker and should NOT let the price dictate craftsmanship or reflect on it's quality simply because I have less of an overhead and are still able to produce the same high quality of work any other reputible professional cuemaker builds.....
Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
total agreement!
Eddie,
We are at a point of total agreement here. Time for me to dog it off. I have a few errands to do and then I'm headed down to New Orleans to meet with good friends from out of town and have some of the best seafood this side of anywhere. My extracurricular activities are pretty rare since I do enjoy what I do every day but there are times for splurging!
Speaking of which if you find yourself down this way, we'll get together for some seafood and a BS session. Maybe even find a ball to hit.
Hu
Eddie,
We are at a point of total agreement here. Time for me to dog it off. I have a few errands to do and then I'm headed down to New Orleans to meet with good friends from out of town and have some of the best seafood this side of anywhere. My extracurricular activities are pretty rare since I do enjoy what I do every day but there are times for splurging!
Speaking of which if you find yourself down this way, we'll get together for some seafood and a BS session. Maybe even find a ball to hit.
Hu
WheatCues said:
WheatCues
Banned
(quick edit)
Eddy, our posts are crisscrossing now.
Nothing wrong with what you do, it is great. However I think you have to admit it isn't practical for the average cuemaker.
Hu
You are right and that's why I'm not competing with other cuemakers on any level... I've generated a new level with unique differences and options that is not of the mainstream "norm".
I have zero intention of comparing myself to other cuemakers or want to be compared for that matter, because of my afforded position, however I do feel there is alot of over priced cues for what the customers get for their money and that was my intended point of focus !
Thanks again, Eddie Wheat
Eddy, our posts are crisscrossing now.
Nothing wrong with what you do, it is great. However I think you have to admit it isn't practical for the average cuemaker.
Hu
You are right and that's why I'm not competing with other cuemakers on any level... I've generated a new level with unique differences and options that is not of the mainstream "norm".
I have zero intention of comparing myself to other cuemakers or want to be compared for that matter, because of my afforded position, however I do feel there is alot of over priced cues for what the customers get for their money and that was my intended point of focus !
Thanks again, Eddie Wheat
asiasdad
Banned
WheatCues said:
Eddie,
Go on a date, sometimes wood can get too hard, and without
the K-Y and the boring machine set at the wrong rpm, you may
find yourself unable to repair the damage
I have really enjoyed this thread, and having survived collectors
mental masturbation after 50+ cues, I would agree with a good hitting
cue costing in the 500-800 range. After that it is all about eye candy,
ego, bragging rights, and yes there is also sentimental value:
I have a Meucci Original OL-1 in 98% unrestored condition that is the
first custom cue I ever owned. I don't give a damn what its'
market value is, or if it's a monster player or if it even
hits like a southwest or any other cue pimp hype and
bullsh*t we read so much on this site.
It has sentimental value that even master card
could not put a price on. I even sold a TAD
to keep this Meucci.
I also have one of the last Bob Frey real SP cues he
ever made that I bought from a member here on AZB.
To me, a real SP has no joint collar, has no butt cap,
or ring on the butt, or inlays anyplace. It is supposed
to look like a butt ugly house cue, or it is not a SP.
At $450.00 for that Frey SP in new, unplayed
condition with 2 shafts it does everything a cue
is supposed to do, with the only limitations being
my skill level. To me that is good value.
I also have a moderately priced (under 2K) ego
stick made by Judd Fuller (JT-4) with a 3d shaft
by predator and matching ringwork/JP's by Judd, that
is pleasing to own, however does not "play" any
better or worse than the Frey SP.
And to drive my point home, I also own a very
custom built exactly to my spec Mottey for 4K
that I bought purely again for sentimental value
that I could give a damn what kind of cue
futures market value it may ever have.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=82853&highlight=50th+birthday
My point is, the Judd and the Mottey "play" just as
good or bad as my Frey SP, and the Meucci .......
well, that's it's own animal entirely
Doug Patrick
AZ forumite: PatrickCues . . . That's a AAAA Cocobola / Maple Sneaky Pete cue with two shafts - it was in the neighborhood of $400 . . . plus it's a hell of a nice hitting cue.
I've sold all my eye candy cues - converting to pretty woods and minimal inlays. Check Doug out . . . he's an awesome builder.
www.patrickcustomcues.com
CocoboloCowboy said:
AZ forumite: PatrickCues . . . That's a AAAA Cocobola / Maple Sneaky Pete cue with two shafts - it was in the neighborhood of $400 . . . plus it's a hell of a nice hitting cue.
I've sold all my eye candy cues - converting to pretty woods and minimal inlays. Check Doug out . . . he's an awesome builder.
www.patrickcustomcues.com
Attachments
Somebdoy please sell me a $500 Hagan cue.
Or a Petersen cue.
Wait, a fullsplice Tucker cue for ..... $800.
Or a Petersen cue.
Wait, a fullsplice Tucker cue for ..... $800.
JoeyInCali said:
Poor Joey, always a bride's maid; never the bride.
Lisa <====knows at some point, she'll pay for that one...LoL.
It's funny how some people place value on other people's belongings sometimes.ridewiththewind said:Poor Joey, always a bride's maid; never the bride.
Lisa <====knows at some point, she'll pay for that one...LoL.
OK, $850.
JoeyInCali said:It's funny how some people place value on other people's belongings sometimes.
OK, $850.
LoL! It's not about the money...besides, your buddy there has way more than me, and another on the way...perhaps NOW he will be willing to part with one of his others....hey, it's worth a try!!
Lisa<====is waiting now for a certain someone to give her the 'smackdown!'...LoL!
Whatever you want to pay.
Who cares how much a cue costs? If you can afford it and want it then buy it. How can anybody put a hourly rate on an artists time? What makes a custom cue cool is the fact that it is custom and not that you saved a few bucks. Buy what you want and don't worry if a bunch of broke people tell you you overpaid.
Who cares how much a cue costs? If you can afford it and want it then buy it. How can anybody put a hourly rate on an artists time? What makes a custom cue cool is the fact that it is custom and not that you saved a few bucks. Buy what you want and don't worry if a bunch of broke people tell you you overpaid.